Thanks Tony......and I concur. I truely believe after today's testing that my 60' limitation at this point is a lack of torque. Notice how it typically 60's in the low 1.7's and with today's good air (more power) it stayed in the mid-high 1.6's. Once I run in bad air again, I fully expect it will be back in the low 1.7's again.

I could add more compression with some milling and thinner gaskets, but that would also require flycutting. For me, the best (and funnest) way to add torque to this deal will be a plate kit!

I could also reduce some weight for testing purposes, but at the end of the day....it wouldn't be permanent weight loss. For some reason I really dig having a full interior in this car, and don't want to comprimise things like my roll down windows and such. After all.....it's a street car.

I would like to lose weight, add cubes, and compression all in one fail swoop though. I'm thinking 418 LS3 stroker . But I don't see that happening anytime soon. Before I add any more significant power I still need to upgrade the rear end and driveshaft. This is how I see things playing out:

1. Nine inch and chromoly 1350 shaft this fall.
2. N20 plate kit and acessories over the winter.
3. Stroker motor when the LY6 lets go.....eventually.
4. Bodywork and paint.......probably never at this rate. Going fast is much funner than looking good for me.

Add to all of this that I also have forced induction asperations (daydreams really) for the Trans Am.......and it adds up to me having more dreams than cash.

 

I don't know much about how 60 ft is affected by DA. My only frame of reference was when I took an 11.7 combo at my home track in WI and then ran at Bristol in 2000 for a GMHTP race, and I slowed to a 12.4 in some really bad air, like 4000. My short times were real soft, went from 1.57 to 1.70 I think. I also lost I think 4 mph... But I don't totally get what is happening.

Here is a link to an article I did on a swapped Mustang, Dave Mizell's car...
http://www.planetlsx.com/vehicles/Ch..._with_L92s/107

Please note that his raceweight has been 2950-3000 ish. I don't have his exact cam specs, but I think they might have been something like 236/246 (I'm just making up some numbers but I did talk to Mikey Kleman @ Rapid who spec'd the cam). His pistons were flycut on the intake side for sure.

For my Merc swap I plan a mild cam or maybe no cam... Not sure. But for another build I have planned, a built LS3/LY6 combo in a 4th gen, I'd be trying for 9.9's just like Dave's build.

 

34* from 3000 to redline. This is something I considered testing today as well, but I've felt pretty confident with 34. I'm basing this off of testing done by a few guys on here, but mainly 3pedals in the carb'd section. He was running a carb'd LY6 with a simliar cam and in a simlarly weighted car. He tested a bunch of timing points, and he basically found a six degree range or so where additional timing neither helped nor hurt his MPH. I can't remember his exact range but I know I based my setting of 34 off of his results primarily and confirmed them with some other combo's/testing I came across.

As with anything.....I would probably benefit from doing my own testing, but with some many variables to test already........I felt pretty good hedging my bets with 34*. But this also reminds me of something I didn't post. Up until this point I had been running 87 octane, but for todays outing I ran 89 instead. I did this as a failsafe against the cool air. I really don't think it had any affect on my performance......but wanted to put it out there.

 

That sounds about right John. The poor air really saps the power all around. I built the Camaro out here so I've never ran it anywhere else, but I've had the benifit of running my Trans Am both back east in good air and up here at elevation. Everything about how the car ran, starting with the 60', suffered from the thin air. I think once I get the Camaro closer to sea level I may finally sqeak some high 1.5s out of it......but that will probably be it for this combo.

That was a cool article on Dave's car.....thanks for sharing it. I've seen several of his posts in the past and have always been impressed with how that Mustang runs. IIRC, he now has a different and even quicker combo!

3pedals (Barrett) ran a 12.55 with a stock cammed, carb'd LY6 in his 67 Camaro.....so it would be a respectable set up for your Merc. Either way will make it a really fun cruiser for sure.

 

I guess next time you need to come out at 4800.

I was and I was only going 1.48's but on a 150 shot it dropped 9 tenths and picked up 11 mph. Interesting thing was when I was only going 11.4@118 on motor it still ran about the same on spray... I dropped 3 tenths with added timing (28 or 30 degrees don't remember) and playing with shift points.

10.92@123 na 1.48
10.008@134 n20 1.38 (right after each other)
I probably could have gone quicker on spray but the track was iffy and it was moving around too much.

Okay I have a question for you since you are running a GM style radiator and an LY6... I really need help on this one, it's driving me crazy...

What inlet/outlet style would you reccomend for the radiator? Which sides for each?

 

I understand that to its fullest!

I do not believe the LY6 is going to let you down anytime soon and will serve you well for many years. You have built a great combination that works. Until the $ is there I would bracket race it and drag home enough trophys to fill the new garage.

 

Cool! I can't wait to spray this thing. Hopefully I'll be all over it by next spring!

I would say that you definitely want your radiator outlet to be on the lower passenger side, because no matter what water pump you're using, that side will be the closest to your water pump inlet. My radiator inlet is on the top drivers side. While this position works fine for me, it's not necessarily the closest to the water pump outlet; the passenger side would be. But, since I'm running an F-body pump that exits straight out, it's not a big deal to pipe it over to the driver’s side radiator inlet.....just like a stock F-body does. Hope that helps.

 

That's what I'm talkin about! That's a plan I can follow. I'm having a lot of fun with the car, but I have this terrible bug that won't let me be satisfied....LOL. I think most of us have it . But, all of this stuff just gives me something to work towards in the future while I'm having fun.

I've always been a Test and Tune only kind of guy, so I think it would be fun to get into some more regular bracket/index racing like you said. The car is already proven itself consistent so I just need to work on cutting more consistent lights and I could probably go a few rounds.

 

awesome thread!! PM sent

 

Gary,
Didn't you end up running Cal-Trac bars? If so, did they make much of a difference?

thanks,
Jim

 

Thanks man! PM returned with answers. I hope it helps.

 

Hey Jim, haven't heard from you in a while. I hope things are going good for you.

Yeah, I'm running Caltrac split mono leaf springs and Caltrac bars. I've never ran the car without them, so I can't really say that they are better or worse than anything else. But what I can say is that I don't think my car is hitting the tires hard enough yet for the bars to be overly sensitive to adjustment. I say that because during my last outing I adjusted the bars from the upper holes to the lower holes (just for learning purposes to see what the car would do differently) and my 60' was identical to my previous passes (1.67).

 

ive bougth new moog HD spring for my lsx 80 Firebird did i need to chop for have a nice ground clearance ? because my older spring was broken an the ground clearance was not bad , im unsafe about cutting those spring , i dont want to cut them and putting the car too low..

 

I wouldn't cut a stock replacement spring like that until you have everything put together and let all of the weight sit on the springs for a while. A fully dressed LS motor isn't that much lighter than a traditional Chevy or Pontiac small block when all is said and done, so it's doubtful that a stock style spring would need to be cut. If it sits for a while after being fully assembled and it's still too high, then make the decision to cut them.

The only reason I had to cut mine is because they are extremely tall drag race springs with a lighter spring rate (Moroso Trick Springs). If you have to cut the springs after they've been installed, it's still pretty easy. Just use an internal spring comresser tool to compress the springs up into the upper frame pockets, hinge the lower a-arm down, make your cut with a cut-off wheel, and reassemble. It took me less than two hours to cut both sides.

 

I am going to have to agree 100% with you Gary on letting the springs settle. For instance, the replacement leaf springs under my 69 settled a whopping 3-1/2" or more from when first installed. I am not sure if the coil drop would be that significant but they will settle. As far as the weight of the LS series engines is concerned, I noticed my car sits lower with the 6.0 than it did with the SBC. Of course I am using the cast iron block and I added air conditioning. I say install the front coils and drive it. Wait till you log in a couple hundred miles before making the decision to cut anything.

 

i dont want to look stupid but , i dont realy know the metod to put the new spring in place , im only 27y , i've done enough mecanic since i've 16y , but for spring i always put my car in garage to do this ... , now i cant ,


my mind is to use spring compressor but im a little bit unsure about if it will fit (the spring compressor , y have to buy or rent one) the space between the frame and the arm was not very big ....

 

and if im talking about cutting spring , is not because i was thinking about the weigth of the engine , is because the older spring was broken , and the ride heigth was not bad , i want a litle bit lower



That is the pic with broken spring on it

 

notice i didnt cut anything to put older spring out , and my new spring are Moog Heavy Duty spring for A/C car

 

I put the exact springs in my 69 Camaro and what a pain in the *** that was. You will need a heavy foot to push the control arm away from you, a strong hand to hold the spring in place inside of the subframe, and a pry bar in the other hand to pry the hell out of the spring to get it to seat into the control arm. I did mine without a spring compressor though. Or the easy way, cut exactly one round off of the spring with a zip wheel and it will almost fall into place. This is what I did with the other springs I had. I love the looks of it being lowered but my headers did not like it at all. I say cut one round out of them and you will get the ride your looking for. If all else fails you are only out $100. Or spend the money and buy some drop in coil overs for around $400 and you can adjust the ride height accordingly.

 

Hmmm, yeah your broken springs were quite a bit shorter and the car did have a nice ride height with them. Either way though, I still wouldn't cut them until you first install them and see how it sits. If nothing else, it will let you decide how much to cut.

To install the springs you'll need an internal compressor like this one: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WMR-W80554/

Basically, one of the hook mechanisms is threaded and the other slides freely on the threaded rod. You'll want to completely remove both of the hook mechanism from the threaded rod and install the threaded rod down through the shock hole in the frame. Then you screw the threaded hook mechanism onto the rod so that it hook it onto one of the lower coils on the spring. Just don't hook it to the lowest coil or you won't be able to release the spring into the lower a-arm. Next you use a ratchet and socket to turn the threaded rod from the top. This will draw the hook mechanism upward, thereby compressing the spring.

When you do this, the spring will sometimes want to curl. To keep this from happening, I attached a ratchet strap to the spring and ran it to the opposite side of the frame. This allowed me to keep constant rearward tension on the spring if it started to curl outward. It's also HIGHLY RECOMMENDED to route a safety chain through one of the spring coils and secure it around the frame. This will act a safety catch if the coil spring compressor fails. These springs are DEADLY if they fly out and hit you.

Once you have the spring compressed far enough, you can swing the lower arm up into place and use the ratchet strap to pull it back into the spring pocket if necessary. At the same time, you can put a jack under the lower arm to help compress the spring further to be able to get a nut onto the ball joints.

The final piece of advice I can give you is to do this job with the with the engine in place. The extra weight will help keep car down as you jack the lower control arm up. Here are some pictures from when I did mine. Notice I didn't have the motor in the car yet.....that was my mistake.