BlueMagicSS

iTrader: (4)

Thank you for saying this again.... Not sure if people got it the first time I said it. I've personally spoken to a BAR technical adviser. Which if you have any questions you should as well.

Matt
BAR Licensed Smog Tech

bczee

iTrader: (12)

Blue..yeah.. there is too much hear say about Calif Smog laws, test and swap.. I've gone over the web site a few time and have asked question about them many times.. 90% of the answer are incorrect from just too many people who think they know. You can even get different answers from the State Ref's LOL...

Technically, State and Fed laws.. makes it illegal to change/modify anything, remove or swap unless there is a C.A.R.B. number or DMV rule/policy to do so.. and just because a State or region doesn't test or check, doesn't make it legal to do the mod's and removal.

coke

it is illegal to swap a motor from different class, end of story


a b20 form honda crv is not legal in a integra which came with b18, because its a motor from a suv/truck

b18 and b20 is basiclly same motor , only b20 is 0.2 bigger in displacement

just because its from a suv , it cant never be bard in a civic or integra
a lot of honda owners have tried, its the law


if you call around different ref will tell you different things , not all the refs are that professional




the link that was posted above from bar website is not clear about the swap Classification, it never say you can put a truck motor in a car

it clearly says

Don't mix engine and vehicle classifications






here it is

Engine Changes
Engine changes are legal as long as the following requirements are met to ensure that the change does not increase pollution from the vehicle:
The engine must be the same year or newer than the vehicle.

The engine must be from the same type of vehicle (passenger car, light-duty truck, heavy-duty truck, etc.) based on gross vehicle weight.

If the vehicle is a California certified vehicle then the engine must also be a California certified engine.

All emissions control equipment must remain on the installed engine.

Vehicles converted to 100% electric drive, with all power supplied by on-board batteries are considered in compliance with the engine change requirements. All fuel system components must be removed prior to inspection. For additional information contact the ARB helpline at (800) 242-4450



at the bottom

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/replace.htm

thedrill

iTrader: (1)

The testing of emissions on light trucks and passenger cars share the same limits, so I cannot see why they should object to a light truck engine in a car or vice versa.. EG: Chevy express truck engine is the same as the one in a tahoe suv and has the same smog test.

http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ld.php

coke

i can not see why they need a bar sticker on an aftermarket intake and header or turbo kit

i cant see why they give you a ticket for headlight being too low


suv and truck is in the same class, same most truck motor burns cleaner than car motors

some car has same motor as trucks, like ka24 , 22re 22r, you just cant mix and match, thats the law


im very firm on this one , unless the law has been changed

my friend has a b20b swapped integra , failed get bard
we made apointment at state ref , then went there , came straight home as soon as my friend told the ref its a b20

you just cant put a suv or truck motor in a car, or a car motor in a truck
its against the law


its pointless to argue , do whatever yall wanna do its your car, but dont be coming here bitching when you fail with a truck motor


its not about the emission , its not about saving the planet

its all about control and money, the goverment just dont want heavily modified cars on streets of cali

like i said before , if they care about the air, we should all pass if we pass the sniffer

thedrill

iTrader: (1)

Ok, Im off to see the Referee next week with my truck powered car, lets see what happens.. I will keep you all posted.

nightferret

well back to one of my questions has anyone ever taken there ls 240 to the ca state reff? and what did you do with the header clearance on the steering rack?

thedrill

iTrader: (1)

Not sure about the 240 and the state ref, but most people modify the steering shaft with either an extra Universal joint and / or a spherical rod end bearing , I used a universal joint instead of a Rag joint on my motor swap, to clear the manifold.

bczee

iTrader: (12)

from what I found, was the Passenger Car (PC) Light-duty Truck (LDT) and Medium-duty Vehicles (MDV) are the same standards as far as Executive Orders list and therefore are the same standard and can be used to swap between LDT and PC's....

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/cert.php

I know I had asked about this subject before and was answered that PC and LDT can be swapped between classication due to them being lumped into the same executive order listings.

But If anyone find anything or gets a different answer, please post along with link or document.

BlueMagicSS

iTrader: (4)

It seems like people don't want to listen. Call BAR and hear it from them. PERIOD. Myself and bczee have said it over and over. A LIGHT DUTY TRUCK motor CAN be swapped into a PASSENGER CAR and Vice Versa. I have personally spoken to a BAR Rep and asked point blank. I have also MYSELF SMOGGED HUNDREDS of cars. But don't take it from me. I'm just a Licensed Smog Tech.

Many people are misinformed by what Earl and Junebug the Mechanic from down the way heard from their friend who knows a friend who knows a guy who is a smog tech. Granted, the law is not 100% clear so there will be some misinterpretation because of the way the law is written. But who's to say that you're 5.7 from the 2001 Camaro that you say it's from isn't a 5.3 from a 2000 Silverado? Plain and simply the Light Duty Truck Motor to a Passenger Car Swap is allowed because there is no difference when it comes to the emissions components. What is NOT permitted is a Diesel engine into a Passenger car and that's what the wording in the law is meant for.

PM Me for further questions....

Matt
BAR Licensed Smog Tech

coke

im not familier with chevy motors, i dont know why they let you put a truck motor in a passenger car

this sounds like a good news to my friend, maybe the law is just for hondas? JK



thedrill will take his ride to ref next week, we will see about that


good luck tho

coke

this dude is trying to make his s13 legit

ive been looking at his build, check it out

http://silviav8forums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2419

boardslide

iTrader: (17)

Numerous hondas have been failed for just this as coke mentioned. Unfortunately I think it's because thet leave it up to interpretation to the ref and there really isn't any desire to standardize the system to make it simpler. I don't know if there's any way to complain if you feel you are not getting a fair ruling. At the same time it does allow for the more leanient refs who let some stuff go.

Back to the original question, miatas have the same steering shaft problem. I was planning on using the u-joints and pillow block method. I haven't gotten to see how bad it will be yet but some carb legal block huggers are probably going to be in order to get it even close. I don't know of any legal miatas yet though either.

thedrill

iTrader: (1)

I have got my appointment for the referee on thursday this week, I will let you know the outcome.

coke

good luck dude

thedrill

iTrader: (1)

Went to the referee in woodland hills college today to get the car tested, he was adamant that you cannot put a light truck motor into a car, so I asked if he could talk to someone higher up the ladder and find out , so after a couple of hours in the waiting room he emerged and told me that he could not get an answer and to "go home and we will call you when we find out". He also mentioned that the 700r4 that I have got behind the engine is not "correct" for the engine as its not computer controlled... im getting upset with Califriggingfornia rules and regs.

BlueMagicSS, would you give them a call and put them straight please.

BlueMagicSS

iTrader: (4)

I will make a call again to the BAR advice line, which you should as well. Because I was told it was ok because they use the same emissions controls systems. And I will also call the Ref as well. Hopefully I will get a chance to do so tomorrow.

thedrill

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the reply, They said something about a furlow day tomorrow so I dont expect there to be anyone about.

Do you know anything about the 700r4 being "wrong type" for the engine.. and not being computerised?, what happens when you put a LSX engine in a jeep 4x4, do you have to keep the original transmission, One rule for one and different for another.

bleakdragonmage

iTrader: (1)

when i called the ref to ask about my lt1 swap, he told me that i would have to have the transmission that originally came with the engine.

BlueMagicSS

iTrader: (4)

I honestly haven't heard anyone say anything about the transmissions when trying to get reffed. So I'm not exactly sure. I find it so great that everyone has conflicting answers when it comes to these laws. Maybe ONE day they can get it right.