jbVHO

iTrader: (2)

The results from the noid light tests are that I have no injector pulses at the injector connectors...

Does this narrow it down to either a bad crank sensor or bad ECM? What would be the way to test the crank sensor? Or both for that matter?

EDIT: Could it still be a bad ECM if my tuner was still able to reprogram it? He said that he had trouble getting into it with HPTuners but that EFILive was able to get to it. Also, I double checked with him and he said that VATS was indeed removed.

Thanks

gMAG

iTrader: (1)

To revisit.... You found this>>>"As for the injector voltage, using a multimeter, I put 1 probe on the power (pink) pin in the connector and 1 on the ground pin and got 12 V with the key in run. "

I don't believe this should be...that 12v could be measured between the two pins, in light of you seeing no grnd betw grnd pin of inj harness & block. Maybe someone else can chime in here.
When I get home tonight, I'll recheck this. My engine is a 98. There shouldn't be a difference.


This is good here>>>>"I then put 1 probe on the power pin and 1 on an engine/chassis ground and again got 12 V." (In start & run...my words)

Since there is no spark sig, it's gotta have something to do with the crank sensor/sensor wiring, I think. I recall that you've checked continuity of the three leads on the crank harness. Is it possible that there could be an electrical cross between one of the wires on the crank harness. Though I've read of it happening before, I just don't think that your ECM has failed.
Stranger things have happened!

jbVHO

iTrader: (2)

As for the spark signal, I am pretty sure that I do have one. But this is just based on the result that I got it to ignite a few cylinders after the manual injector pulsing.

I reread the thread you put up a link to previously and it seems that we have much the same issue. (Except it is with two different generations of engine)

bozzhawg

check your grounds......

LSX motors are very picky about grounds......

I would also plug up the VSS sensor, it does alot more than most think......

How do you have the ignition setup? and intergrated into the nova wiring? Did you bypass a BCM or TCM?


Bozz

jbVHO

iTrader: (2)

I am using the TCM from the van. I am using the starter solenoid wire (thick purple one) from the Nova, and then I use a switched ignition circuit in the Nova's fuse panel to flip a relay that is within the Current Performance fuse module to power the pink (or orange) wires from the LY6/4L80E.

One note about the ECM...I am not sure how fragile they are but it is probably worth mentioning that mine has acquired a small dent in the back of it (about 1/16" deep and maybe less than inch long) from I assume the wreck that the van was in. Again I don't know if the fact that it was able to be reprogrammed verifies that it is in good working order, but I thought I would bring it up.

Thanks

jbVHO

iTrader: (2)

Well, I think I was mistaken on which plug I didn't have plugged in on the 4L80E, I do have the VSS sensor plugged in, but I don't have the large, round gray connector plugged in to the transmission due to the cross member (one thing I want to work on today). I guess this could be the primary transmission plug, but would this have the effect of not allowing the engine to start?

EDIT: One other thing, I was talking to a guy yesterday and he said that in the newer engines, the ECM will not allow the injectors to pulse at all if VATS is still an issue (meaning that it would not run for the few seconds). Does anyone have experience with this and a Gen IV setup?

Thanks

gMAG

iTrader: (1)

I bought an add-on VATS sig gen, & there are no inj pulses at all if the sig gen is disconnected (GEN III engine). People seem to get different results with the same engines. I had forgotten to verif whether the coils operated as well.

bozzhawg

Sounds like a wiring issue...... Thats why when I swapped I used the inside fuse box from the gto and the engine bay for the relays and such, so when I did my conversion... I only have a few wires correlated or tide into my chevelle wiring system.......

I think the issue is something small and you need to remap or check your wiring schematics... If you have to draw it out so you know what you have and can mull it over during the day when you get down time or your lunch break..... Also you can post the schematics here and and we can look at it and see how you have it setup and what is right or wrong.... Other than that, you and us including are shootn the **** and chasing the tail.....

I copied the same setup as the Painless system....but I used the 06 gto stock harness...... The issue with starting is making sure you have the power,ign circuits bypassing the bcm if not using it......

If I am correct most gen IV run the starting system through the BCM, the BCM does not send a signal straight to the ECM, it sends a signal to the PIM that translates the BCM language to the ECM..... So you need to verify if the donor had a BCM..... IF so and you not using a BCM, then you need to bypass the BCM, through wiring and have the functions the ECM looks for from the PIM/BCM removed......

The BCM is responsible for the VATs system on gen IV's and it works on the principle that once you place the key in the ignition.. a resistance is sent to the BCM and once the BCM verifies the resistance, then it sends data to the PIM, that sends data to the ECM....

This should get your thinking in the right direction..... concentrating on the ignition switch(usually orange from BCM) and starter switch(usually violet)........ Don't quote me for I do not have the wiring schematics of the 09 van or suv you are referring to....

You need to setup and at least have the MIL or DL connected so you can put sometype of OBII,HP,EFI Live, etc... on it to verify codes... That would help a lot.....

jbVHO

iTrader: (2)

Ya the only things the Nova's original wiring is responsible for is to turn the engine over during start and send a 12 V signal in run and start to a powertrain relay in the Current Performance fuse box module that switches on power to injectors, coils, sensors, etc.

As for the MIL, I tried rigging up a light the other day and after a couple of tries to start, it didn't come on, however, I am not sure I believe that I have no codes being thrown. So to verify my wiring, I have the wire that my schematic says is responsible for the Malfunction Lamp and does it provide a ground to the lamp when there are problems (Similar to injector's wiring method)? Or is that wire providing power when there are trouble codes present?

bozzhawg

Do you have the DLC data link connected? from the ECM? So you can at least plug the OBII in to see if you have codes? With that model the the DLC usually runs to the to the BCM, but since you are not using a BCM I assume... Where is the DLC wires run too? ECM? I hope

Sounds like you need to call Current Performance..... I don't know now...... I have to see a schematics of how you have it setup vs theirs..... We need to see what you have done......

jbVHO

iTrader: (2)

I have a OBDII plug ordered that I am going to wire up, but to answer your question, I don't have anything setup yet that I can plug into. I am starting to think I might just wire something up for the meantime (without an actual plug). I was trying to research it, but could only find the Gen III stuff in the FAQ, but would it basically be the same except the purple data wire is now brown?

bozzhawg

On my gen IV:

MIL= brown/white.....from light to ECM
DLC=tan/black and tan.....from ECM to Data link connecter(usually will be under the dash or where ever you place it... I had mine sitting on the floor durring install and just laying around......
In the van, these wires would have gone from the ECM to the PIM then to the BCM.... when I bypassed and did not use the PIM or BCM, I ran them from the ECM straight to the DLC.... I installed it right under the dash for easy access for final installation...


Problem is, if current performance changed any of these wires colors........????????????????

jbVHO

iTrader: (2)

None of those things run through the Current Perf stuff, I only bought their fuse/relay module and set it up myself. It only deals with anything that is getting power (pink wires) and any wires telling when to power other stuff (example: fuel pump request wire).

When you set up the DLC, do you only have the tan/black, tan, another ground, and a +12 V battery wire hooked up to the plug? (At the correct positions of course)

bozzhawg

no, 2 wires... only.....

the wires run to the ecm......

The more and more I think about it, sounds like you have a wiring issue....

Again draw a diagram of how you setup the entire system, then we can help you better so we can see what you have... We don't expect you to be van gauh or picaso....... Other than that bro its going to be hard to see or help.... Because I am trying to figure out how you could wire it without any reverence for the BCM or PIM etc...... you need to go to Alldata.com and pay $16 for a subscription for the suv or van the motor and engine came out of if you do not post up a diagram of your setup......

I would not attempt to start it again until you at least have the DLC connected.....


Bozz

gMAG

iTrader: (1)

Because VATS has been deleted, the BCM should no longer be needed.

jbVHO

iTrader: (2)

Alright, the only codes that showed up on my scan gauge were P0443 and P0449. Both of those are for Evap Emissions related things.

bozzhawg

Good, now we are making progress, have your guy delete the evap too, if your not running a canister..... I deleted it as well for my 69 Chevelle...

The other problem with that is find the evap solenoid on the motor and remove the tube that connects to the intake for the solenoid... I have seen the solenoids stay open before which will cause a vaccum leak and p0171 p0174... cap off that nipple on the intake...... while your at it....

Now draw the diagram..... So we can see....

What kind of fuel tank,fuel pump,fuel filter,regulator, are you using?
have you verifyed that when you turn the key, the fuel pump is coming on?
Have you verified that when you turn the key, you have fuel pressure at the rail?
How is your tank setup?
What gauge wire do you have coming from the fuel pump relay, back to the tank?

Bozz

Jones'n

Aside from VATS, has the "starter diagnostic" been disabled in the computer? This will do the same thing.

jbVHO

iTrader: (2)

This man wins the prize...kinda...

To make a long story short, this led me to figure out that I didn't have the starter enable wire grounded nor the powertrain relay control wire grounded, and with those two hooked up properly, she started right up.

Thanks everybody for the help

Jones'n

In my first post when I said VATS, I should have also mentioned that part, sorry bout that.