180* crossover headers 944/ls1 conversion
180* crossover headers 944/ls1 conversion I am going to drop a ls1 into a porsche 944. I love the sound of muscle but i do want my car to be a sleeper. I think the only thing I've heard that makes it sound closer to a flat crank, exotic car is a 180 crossover header. My problem is the engine bay is very tight. I'm going to have to custom build the headers anyway but what would be the easiest route to go about doing this?
http://static.speedwaymotors.com/RS/.../9171801_L.jpg
http://static.speedwaymotors.com/RS/.../9171801_L.jpg
That is going to be a very tough project. You may want to check out Bend Tech Header Design software. http://www.2020softwaresolutions.com/bt_hd.htm
Really? Seriously? I'll believe it when I see it. Please post a link.
Really? Seriously? I'll believe it when I see it. Please post a link.
In for an answer. I'm going to do this when I build my gtm (one day). The headers pictured look like lt1 headers. I assume you posted the pic so other knew what a crossover header is though.. Ati made a few sets for the ls1 corvette. You can YouTube the video it's a sick sound. I don't think they still make them but maybe they could help you.
180 headers have a unique sound that simulates that of a flat crank because the exhaust pulses into the collector are evenly spaced. I really like the way they sound, but they are very hard to package with reasonable and equal primary lengths and of course they end up looking like speghetti (sp?). Mid/rear engine cars tend to have more space for this sort of thing. If you can get it done in a 944, I will be very impressed. If you have a local dirt track, that is often where you will find these headers being used. If you're looking for performance, it's been demonstrated that standard long tube headers with an X pipe are just as good at developing power and a lot easier to package, but you don't get that exotic sound.
I think the 180 degree headers are a better option than a flat plane crank. I've read those cranks have vibration issues that ours dont. Plus you would have a different cam I believe.. It just seems cheaper and easier to do the exhaust than a crank and cam switch...
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That is going to be a very tough project. You may want to check out Bend Tech Header Design software. http://www.2020softwaresolutions.com/bt_hd.htm
Really? Seriously? I'll believe it when I see it. Please post a link.
Really? Seriously? I'll believe it when I see it. Please post a link.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/multimedi...gine-dyno.html
you dont need to switch a cam because of the crank
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TECH Resident
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 792
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
My buddy has a 914 V8 track car with 180's. Yes, it certainly sounds a lot different than anything else on the track. Packaging those headers (Schoenfeld) would be impossible in the 944 short of some heavy body and chassis modifications like a tube framed stock car/dirt car.
Muscle car header manufacturers in the 60's went through a 180 kick which didn't last very long. They crossed over two primaries under the pan to get 180 degree headers, as I recall (on a SBC). I suppose you could do something similar once you get the phasing figured out, but it would be a lot of work.
Andy1
Muscle car header manufacturers in the 60's went through a 180 kick which didn't last very long. They crossed over two primaries under the pan to get 180 degree headers, as I recall (on a SBC). I suppose you could do something similar once you get the phasing figured out, but it would be a lot of work.
Andy1
I want the sound and nothing else. The power gains would be like 5hp or less. I'm that desperate for that sound to go to a flat plane crank and loose so much power for a huge price tag. I also wouldn't be devistated if I lost 10hp from this exhaust just because the exhaust sound is wonderful. Does ATI do custom exhaust systems?
Have you considered a frequency modifier muffler? These are used in some kit cars to get an exotic car sound. They basically double the exhaust pulses, they make a 4 cylinder sound like an 8 and a 6 cylinder sound like a v12, etc...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSy_3nnsZdg
http://drgas.mybisi.com/product/freq...difier-muffler
I am faced with a similar problem, I am working on putting and LS2 into an old Ferrari (62 250 GTE) and have been trying to find ways to change the sound to sound closer to the original V12. I am planning on using these mufflers along with a camshaft that was recommended by Patrick Guerra to help reduce the LSx sewing machine sound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSy_3nnsZdg
http://drgas.mybisi.com/product/freq...difier-muffler
I am faced with a similar problem, I am working on putting and LS2 into an old Ferrari (62 250 GTE) and have been trying to find ways to change the sound to sound closer to the original V12. I am planning on using these mufflers along with a camshaft that was recommended by Patrick Guerra to help reduce the LSx sewing machine sound.
debreshnev, you are my hero. That is exactly the sound that I am looking for. Could you please record your exhaust when you have it finished? I'm probably going to copy it quite exactly except I'm going for a cam with power rather than for sound. Do you know of any ls1 videos with this exhaust in it? I want to know and hear how each setup is done.
Last edited by bp944; Aug 31, 2011 at 11:40 PM.
Here is the cam spec Patrick recommended.
222/226 .597”/.605” 114LSA +2 advance
Some of the cam specialist may speak up but I am pretty sure it will make plenty of power since this basic setup is known to be a really good performer in LS motors. I have a chassis dyno so I will find out what it makes when it is done. Currently working on the the custom headers, so hopefully I will not be to long before I get the results.
222/226 .597”/.605” 114LSA +2 advance
Some of the cam specialist may speak up but I am pretty sure it will make plenty of power since this basic setup is known to be a really good performer in LS motors. I have a chassis dyno so I will find out what it makes when it is done. Currently working on the the custom headers, so hopefully I will not be to long before I get the results.
I found out that spintech also makes something similar. I found more videos but here's the one I seem to like the most. I enjoy the fact that the idle is pretty calm. I'd rather my car not scream when I'm cruising down the highway at 2,500 rpm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K9wce1aEOA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K9wce1aEOA
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
I dont really don't see how with even the little space behind the intake and master cylinder where it is how 180 could even be an option especially as a sleeper? Huge hood scoop? Ha ha.
I got fed up with the options out there and came up with my own.
1 7/8 stainless long tube 3 inch long collectors. Ran 3 indual al the way back with a x pipe near the shifter then ran back to the original Muffler location where I put in a Magnaflow 2 1/2 inch 2 inlet 2 outlet crossover to give a little backpressure. Still very tame as a sleeper sound.
I got fed up with the options out there and came up with my own.
1 7/8 stainless long tube 3 inch long collectors. Ran 3 indual al the way back with a x pipe near the shifter then ran back to the original Muffler location where I put in a Magnaflow 2 1/2 inch 2 inlet 2 outlet crossover to give a little backpressure. Still very tame as a sleeper sound.