starter wires
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 274
Likes: 1
From: Croydon, PA
starter wires Hello,
Doing an LS1 conversion into a 65 Impala. My starter wires are sometimes on my exhaust. I have used the webbing that is around the O2 sensors to cover the starter wires. I am unsure if this is enough to stop the wires from eventually melting.
Any suggestions appreciated.
Doing an LS1 conversion into a 65 Impala. My starter wires are sometimes on my exhaust. I have used the webbing that is around the O2 sensors to cover the starter wires. I am unsure if this is enough to stop the wires from eventually melting.
Any suggestions appreciated.
Even if they don't melt, as they become hotter the wires lose their ability to carry current, so if they (and the solenoid) become too hot you could end up with common non-starting-after-driving-and-sitting condition. Something to look into might be a painless/ madelectrical/ etc remote solenoid kit, running (and safely routing) newer, better wire to the starter. I'm going to do this next week if the parts come in.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
Leon do whatever you have to do to get those wires off your exhaust even if it means replacing the wires. Chuck is right on on this.
Hey Chuck i was just thinking about doing the "ford" solenoid as well. It seems that there could be a problem with run-on at the starter if you do it that way. This is a big issue with mini starters because they are permanent magnet starters. Apparently the LS starters are the same. I don't like the idea of the large live battery + at the starter but it seems like there isn't a way to get around that.
Why does my starter seem to "run on" after the switch is released?
This is a common complaint on Ford permanent magnet starters, although it can occur on any permanent magnet starter in the right conditions. This situation develops when the ignition terminal on the starter is "jumpered" to the battery terminal on the starter and a remote solenoid is used. Permanent magnet starters can actually produce power if they are driven from an outside source (i.e. the starter will act like an alternator once the engine fires and starts spinning). The current produced in the starter for this second or so will flow from the starter's battery terminal to the starters ignition terminal and hold the solenoid in. This will cause the one to two second delay in the solenoid release and an irritating noise. The solution is to wire the starter per the instruction sheet, which will ensure that the ignition switch terminal goes dead the instance the key is released.
http://www.powermastermotorsports.com/faq-starter.html
Hey Chuck i was just thinking about doing the "ford" solenoid as well. It seems that there could be a problem with run-on at the starter if you do it that way. This is a big issue with mini starters because they are permanent magnet starters. Apparently the LS starters are the same. I don't like the idea of the large live battery + at the starter but it seems like there isn't a way to get around that.
Why does my starter seem to "run on" after the switch is released?
This is a common complaint on Ford permanent magnet starters, although it can occur on any permanent magnet starter in the right conditions. This situation develops when the ignition terminal on the starter is "jumpered" to the battery terminal on the starter and a remote solenoid is used. Permanent magnet starters can actually produce power if they are driven from an outside source (i.e. the starter will act like an alternator once the engine fires and starts spinning). The current produced in the starter for this second or so will flow from the starter's battery terminal to the starters ignition terminal and hold the solenoid in. This will cause the one to two second delay in the solenoid release and an irritating noise. The solution is to wire the starter per the instruction sheet, which will ensure that the ignition switch terminal goes dead the instance the key is released.
http://www.powermastermotorsports.com/faq-starter.html
That was kind of a concern of mine as well but I figured I'd rather it potentially run on than potentially not start. Whenever I get a minute I was going to call the madelectrical guy and see what he thinks; probably going to order his 'new system' and battery relocation stuff anyway.
Agreed with FatfreeGTO, Ford Solenoid is going to give you starter run-on.
Jon
PSI
Jon
PSI
__________________
Your Source for LSX Conversion Parts!
www.psiconversion.com
Ebay Store
Facebook/psiconversion
Instagram/psiconversion
'Dont Let EFI Pass You By!'
Your Source for LSX Conversion Parts!
www.psiconversion.com
Ebay Store
Facebook/psiconversion
Instagram/psiconversion
'Dont Let EFI Pass You By!'
Trending Topics
Leon do whatever you have to do to get those wires off your exhaust even if it means replacing the wires. Chuck is right on on this.
Hey Chuck i was just thinking about doing the "ford" solenoid as well. It seems that there could be a problem with run-on at the starter if you do it that way. This is a big issue with mini starters because they are permanent magnet starters. Apparently the LS starters are the same. I don't like the idea of the large live battery + at the starter but it seems like there isn't a way to get around that.
Why does my starter seem to "run on" after the switch is released?
This is a common complaint on Ford permanent magnet starters, although it can occur on any permanent magnet starter in the right conditions. This situation develops when the ignition terminal on the starter is "jumpered" to the battery terminal on the starter and a remote solenoid is used. Permanent magnet starters can actually produce power if they are driven from an outside source (i.e. the starter will act like an alternator once the engine fires and starts spinning). The current produced in the starter for this second or so will flow from the starter's battery terminal to the starters ignition terminal and hold the solenoid in. This will cause the one to two second delay in the solenoid release and an irritating noise. The solution is to wire the starter per the instruction sheet, which will ensure that the ignition switch terminal goes dead the instance the key is released.
http://www.powermastermotorsports.com/faq-starter.html
Hey Chuck i was just thinking about doing the "ford" solenoid as well. It seems that there could be a problem with run-on at the starter if you do it that way. This is a big issue with mini starters because they are permanent magnet starters. Apparently the LS starters are the same. I don't like the idea of the large live battery + at the starter but it seems like there isn't a way to get around that.
Why does my starter seem to "run on" after the switch is released?
This is a common complaint on Ford permanent magnet starters, although it can occur on any permanent magnet starter in the right conditions. This situation develops when the ignition terminal on the starter is "jumpered" to the battery terminal on the starter and a remote solenoid is used. Permanent magnet starters can actually produce power if they are driven from an outside source (i.e. the starter will act like an alternator once the engine fires and starts spinning). The current produced in the starter for this second or so will flow from the starter's battery terminal to the starters ignition terminal and hold the solenoid in. This will cause the one to two second delay in the solenoid release and an irritating noise. The solution is to wire the starter per the instruction sheet, which will ensure that the ignition switch terminal goes dead the instance the key is released.
http://www.powermastermotorsports.com/faq-starter.html
It has worked fine on my GTO for over a 1000 miles so far, although the other day I went to start the car and it smoked by the solenoid, I traced it to when I hit the key and the battery cable that goes to the starter was slightly touching my homemade solenoid bracket a little trimming of the bracket took care of that, but it saved me that the battery cable was only live when i was turning the key.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
Topdon ONE vs. Artidiag 800 BT2: Which is the Diagnostic Tablet For You?
Pouria Savadkouei
Gas Monkey Built a 6-Wheel Ferrari Testarossa With a Corvette LT4 Engine
Verdad Gallardo
7 Most Reliable High-Performance Engines GM Has Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
Amazing '71 Camaro Restomod Is Modern Muscle Car Under the Skin
Verdad Gallardo
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Man. Can't believe anyone would advocate using a remote solenoid as a safety back up for wire shorting to the headers. Route the wires and secure them such that they never touch the exhaust.
Also IMO if you are using a remote start solenoid to cut the power to the main starter lug you are doing it wrong. The idea is to cut down on resistance going to the stater motor. Adding a second set of contacts (one in the remote solenoid, the second still in the starter solenoid) is making things worse, not better.
All you need the remote start solenoid to do is provide a full voltage source for the S terminal. It bypasses all the potential bad connections in the key start switch circuit that can keep the starter solenoid from fully engaging (especially when hot). Remote solenoids usually have a second set of contact for switching the S circuit. Just use that and leave the big lugs disconnected. Has the added advantage of preventing starter run on.
In fact, I'm not sure why people use the heavy *** Ford relays in the first place. Why not use a standard relay to switch just the S terminal straight to the battery?
Also IMO if you are using a remote start solenoid to cut the power to the main starter lug you are doing it wrong. The idea is to cut down on resistance going to the stater motor. Adding a second set of contacts (one in the remote solenoid, the second still in the starter solenoid) is making things worse, not better.
All you need the remote start solenoid to do is provide a full voltage source for the S terminal. It bypasses all the potential bad connections in the key start switch circuit that can keep the starter solenoid from fully engaging (especially when hot). Remote solenoids usually have a second set of contact for switching the S circuit. Just use that and leave the big lugs disconnected. Has the added advantage of preventing starter run on.
In fact, I'm not sure why people use the heavy *** Ford relays in the first place. Why not use a standard relay to switch just the S terminal straight to the battery?
Chuckd yes the mad solenoid worked fine, Summit also sells he same kit for even less, I just thought it was overpriced for what it is and I just made my own kit for my GTO following the mad design.
PopWood IMO the ford solenoid is just a better design and in the old days everybody used the ford solenoid on Chevys due to the starters and solenoid having heat soak problems due to the installation of headers, in a oem stock exhaust manifold it is usually not a issue. I just don't like the battery positive cable being live in a high heat, hard to access area, with the ford system the battery cable is only live during cranking. Another benefit was on a race motor where you are having to constantly adjust the valves due to a solid lifter motor it is a easy access point to connect a remote starter to just slightly bump the motor over for valve adjustments.
PopWood IMO the ford solenoid is just a better design and in the old days everybody used the ford solenoid on Chevys due to the starters and solenoid having heat soak problems due to the installation of headers, in a oem stock exhaust manifold it is usually not a issue. I just don't like the battery positive cable being live in a high heat, hard to access area, with the ford system the battery cable is only live during cranking. Another benefit was on a race motor where you are having to constantly adjust the valves due to a solid lifter motor it is a easy access point to connect a remote starter to just slightly bump the motor over for valve adjustments.
