different first gen Camaro drag link available?
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 66
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From: Waterford, MI
different first gen Camaro drag link available? I did my first test fit of my 2002 f-car LS1 in my 67 Camaro. Got the mounts to line up, and they push the engine pretty far back, which appears to be good for most clearances. A little issue with the low alternator that I've almost got fixed. I have clearance to the oil pan except at full steer when the drag link moves rearward in car. I know modifying the oil pan and pick-up are common in these cases, but I'd like not to if possible. Is anyone aware of a drag link that has a little more bend in it that pushes the center section forward? I have a ton of clearance between the drag link and crossmember. I obviously don't want to change any of the steering geometry, but moving that center section forward should have no effect (increasing bar size would be good idea). I'd like to increase the diameter anyway. Figure somebody has come up with a drag link to address this already. Maybe even a drag link from another vehicle? Thanks for your thoughts!
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 66
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From: Waterford, MI
Thanks. I checked out David's site before posting (reference it often - tons of great info). The only info I found on center links was a comparison of the 2 diameters that came stock on first gens. I didn't see anything about alternatives to the stock. Did I miss something?
There are not any different ones offered for that issue but shorter idler and pitman may solve your issue. I pushed my engine back a bit further and clearanced the centerline about 1/8".
Center the center link. It's what I just did today to see what happens n I can get full lock to lock each side with just a little hit on the corners of the pan.
Now I'm at a 1/2" setback, if ur at 1" setback you shouldn't have an problems or just a tad little hit that can be grinded down to not hit.
Now I'm at a 1/2" setback, if ur at 1" setback you shouldn't have an problems or just a tad little hit that can be grinded down to not hit.
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Verdad Gallardo The part numbers are listed here, http://www.pozziracing.com/camaro_steering.htm#Steering arm lengths and part numbers and scroll down to the pitman arm section
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 66
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From: Waterford, MI
Yeah the pitman arm section of David's site is great too, but shorter pitman arms won't help me. I need the center link moved forward in car. A longer pitman arm and idler could help, but I think I already have the long ones. I'll have to re-measure. I think my center link is centered. I get equal contact turning each way including the center of the bar. My adapter mounts are 1" setback. But build variation isn't unheard of in these cars either. Read on camaros.net that some people even have issues with center link contact to BBC oil pans. Of course, they can dent their pans to fix it....
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 66
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From: Waterford, MI
I'll mess around with it some more. Spacing the engine up a little might help. I'll just have to see where I can squeak out some room, and if nothing works, I'll modfy the oil pan.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 66
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From: Waterford, MI
Does anyone have a 2nd gen Camaro that could measure the pitman arm length? Or anyone know the length of a 2nd gen pitman arm? I got a hint the 2nd gens might be a little longer, and I think the splines are the same. Offset might be an issue. If I could get slightly longer pitman/idler arms, it could push the center link far enough forward in car to clear.
Something must be different on our cars then. Mine has power steering and I think manual steering has shorter pit/idl arms. Even at 1" setback it barely hit the pan turning right. Turning left had lots of clearance. Check my fbody thread as I just updated notes on the pics. Now that I centered the center link I doubt it will hit the pan now turning right. Well actually I don't think it hit it almost did by a hair.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 66
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From: Waterford, MI
Yeah the forum at Camaros.net is great. A ton of first gen info and great people that have been working on these cars for a long time. Really good for budget builds like you and I are attempting. Some good old fashioned Hot Rod tips and techniques mixed in with the bolt-on after market discussion. For suspension and brakes, you can't beat David Pozzi's site. He's also the moderator for the suspension forum on camaros.net.
I agree there must be something different between our cars (and I want yours LOL). I have a 3rd gen PS box with a 1st gen ps pitman arm. I think it's the long one, but I need to re-measure it. There are different steering arms as well. I can't remember which ones I have, but that should really only effect the tie rod angle - unless the steering stops are different. I think your center link is bigger in diameter than mine. With the 1" setback, it looked like the motor was closer to your firewall than mine is (but not much - and may just be hard to tell in pic). I don't have as much clearance in straight wheels or turned wheels cases as you show in your pics, and I don't quite get to the steering stops before hitting the pan. Maybe there are some differences attributable to 67 vs 69?? When I saw your post about the fcar oil pan fitting, I thought you got lucky because everything else I had read previously said the pan needed to be modified...
I agree there must be something different between our cars (and I want yours LOL). I have a 3rd gen PS box with a 1st gen ps pitman arm. I think it's the long one, but I need to re-measure it. There are different steering arms as well. I can't remember which ones I have, but that should really only effect the tie rod angle - unless the steering stops are different. I think your center link is bigger in diameter than mine. With the 1" setback, it looked like the motor was closer to your firewall than mine is (but not much - and may just be hard to tell in pic). I don't have as much clearance in straight wheels or turned wheels cases as you show in your pics, and I don't quite get to the steering stops before hitting the pan. Maybe there are some differences attributable to 67 vs 69?? When I saw your post about the fcar oil pan fitting, I thought you got lucky because everything else I had read previously said the pan needed to be modified...
Can you post up some pics like I did? Are you sure you have 1" setback plates? Just incase.
Yeah my center link is fat in that car. How good are your pitman n idler arms? Mine are shot n need replacing and I don't know if that will make a difference. But if it barely hits lock to lock, I may just grind down the center just a bit to clear the pan or get a welder to just notch the corners of the pan then all should be good. Are you going with stock manis or headers?
Yeah my center link is fat in that car. How good are your pitman n idler arms? Mine are shot n need replacing and I don't know if that will make a difference. But if it barely hits lock to lock, I may just grind down the center just a bit to clear the pan or get a welder to just notch the corners of the pan then all should be good. Are you going with stock manis or headers?
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 66
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From: Waterford, MI
some pics finally... I did take some pics along the way. Of course, they are on my phone. For some reason it won't let me upload pics on the forum from my phone. So I'll transfer them from my phone to PC in the morning and post them.
I'm hoping to go with stock manifolds. I have the fbody ones that came on my LS1. I also have a set from a corvette that are even shorter and tighter than the fbody. Hopefully one of those will work. I don't want to spend hundreds of bucks on headers. I didn't like the full length headers I had on my SBC because of the reduced ground clearance of having that big collector under the car. So that leaves shortys or stock manis, and I can't see a big enough gain in shortys to justify the cost. The stock manis are a bit heavy tho.
I'm hoping to go with stock manifolds. I have the fbody ones that came on my LS1. I also have a set from a corvette that are even shorter and tighter than the fbody. Hopefully one of those will work. I don't want to spend hundreds of bucks on headers. I didn't like the full length headers I had on my SBC because of the reduced ground clearance of having that big collector under the car. So that leaves shortys or stock manis, and I can't see a big enough gain in shortys to justify the cost. The stock manis are a bit heavy tho.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 66
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From: Waterford, MI
pics Here are some pics. Unfortunately they aren't as good as yours. The picture with the mount attached to the adapter plate is with the old original mounts. Those ended up not lining up when I installed the motor. I found out later that I needed to use 70 or later mounts. That's when I changed to the Energy Suspension mounts, and the bolts line up great now.
I left the motor dressed when I put it trying to identify as many clearance issues as possible. So the picture of the clearance to the firewall isn't very clear since the wiring harness is jammed in there and everything is black.
As I thought about this more last night, I think I might have the shorter idler arm. The car was originally manual steering. I upgraded to the 3rd gen ps, but I didn't change the idler arm. I'll have to measure the idler and pitman and see if there's something to be gained there.
I left the motor dressed when I put it trying to identify as many clearance issues as possible. So the picture of the clearance to the firewall isn't very clear since the wiring harness is jammed in there and everything is black.
As I thought about this more last night, I think I might have the shorter idler arm. The car was originally manual steering. I upgraded to the 3rd gen ps, but I didn't change the idler arm. I'll have to measure the idler and pitman and see if there's something to be gained there.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 66
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From: Waterford, MI
Ok, figured it out. It's the pitman arm. I was wrong before. I have the long idler and the short pitman. If I get the long pitman, I think it'll be good. I have clearance (barely) on the idler side.
So since you have the third gen ps box, did you use the 1st gen or 3rd gen pitman arm or did it come that way? I can measure mine and see how long it is as I'm sure I still have the 1st gen ps box.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 66
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From: Waterford, MI
I used a first gen arm but off a 68 PS box that I had. It's the 5.25" long one. I need the 5.8" long one for a first gen. On the other side by the idler, I have about an 1/8" clearance @ full lock. So I think the added length on the pitman will get me what I need. You probably have the long pitman with the "quick ratio" steering system to go with the big center link.