LS1Bandit

OK, I just got off the phone with the shop. Apparently what was sent to him from the smog ref was this:

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/replace.htm

With the section on fuel tanks being highlighted:

And they're saying that for the purposes of engine conversions, that "original part" means original to the donor engine.

LS1Bandit

Quick update here. While I don't want to give anyone false hope, it seems that there's at least a chance that other smog refs would interpret the requirement differently.

I talked to the guy manning the phones at the main smog ref line and he said he had never heard of any ref requiring the stock donor tank to be part of a conversion and said that as far as he was aware, the only requirements are what are published in the ARB site for engine conversions, which doesn't say anything about needing the stock fuel tank. But he passed me to one of their tech lines and that guy also said he hadn't heard of the requirement and was surprised that a ref had interpreted the rule that way but said everything was up to the ref, then he referred me to a local tech line. I called the local tech line and he too was surprised about the requirement, but we talked for quite a while about it and he said that he's worked with the local ref a lot and while they never actually talked about a fuel tank, he said that the local ref's guideline was that you should think of an engine swap as just removing the "shell" and that when he looks at an engine swap, what he's looking for is if you could basically pull the "shell" (the body) off and drop the body of the donor car on and everything would be exactly as it was. And he said with that general guideline he could potentially conceive the ref interpreting that as requiring the donor fuel tank.

So, as another poster said, a different ref might look at the tank situation differently.

Yesterday I was going to set up an appointment with a different ref, but the state's appointment system was down due to the storms over the weekends. After stewing over it the remainder of the day and sleeping on it, I've changed my mind.

I'm tired of the headaches and concerned about all the ambiguities in the requirements. This project has dragged on for far too many years and while it's a ridiculous amount of money to get rid of a headache, I'm going ahead with the LS3 erod package so I can just get the thing done and through. It's a known quantity with a documented executive order specifically allowing it in the situation I'm trying to use it.

For others in a similar situation, here's my unsolicited advice:

- if you haven't started the project yet, consider using the erod - yes, it's a butt-load of money but it's a sure thing. The last thing you want is to finish the project and find out there's no way to get it past the ref.

- if you've started the project already or just don't have the money for the erod, talk to the ref who would be handling your inspection and see how he interprets the rule. Just note that you'll likely have to set up an inspection appointment (and pay the inspection fee) just to get the ability to talk to the ref. They won't give out their numbers and they don't give you any way to talk to them outside of inspections.

BOXCHEV

iTrader: (3)

You are just short of 3 years lol.

If it was a 1975 you wouldn't be going through this.

I think they need to up that 1975 year crap on up to 1989 or 1990 cars and older to be smog exempt.

With the right people to back it this kinda stuff could get passed, hell if they can get Marijuana to where it is, then we should be able to have our motor swaps in Ca.

BOXCHEV

iTrader: (3)

I guess maybe that's why on West Coast Customs show (street customs) they chopped up a new 2007 Dodge charger and dropped a older 70's shell over the chassis.

Though kinda cool, At the time I thought the labor in cutting and welding, cutting and welding to get all that to work together would far exceed just swapping the motor into the older car..

clm69z28

Have you considered trying to get the gas tank in your car temporarily, even if it isn't a perfect installation? That would seem to be the most cost effective solution at this point. You could then swap it out after the ref approves it, since from that point you would only have to have the car smogged annually and nobody would be looking at the tank from that point on. I think the advice to try another smog referee is a good one.

I have been considering an l92 swap into a post '95 Tahoe and I investigated the Erod option although it wasn't approved for that application. But my thought was if I didn't use the CARB # and just had the referee look at the installation with all of the smog systems in place, why wouldn't it pass?

Pumpkin Notch

bad *** transam you got there

85GPLEf41

iTrader: (4)

If it burns cleaner then the original engine it seems like a no brainer...I would have done with my swap a long time ago! But it seems like i am jumping through hoops just to get a engine that is WAAAY more efficient then the lump of iron 305 my Grand Prix came with! If i kept the basics smog equipment that came on my GP then it would be easy.. No they want what came off the "Donor"...

LS1Bandit

Yes I looked at that option (or at least I asked the shop to do it) . They said that based on the dimensions, they'd have to do a fair bit of cutting of the body to make it fit, even in a temporary installation. Short of strapping the tank to the roof, there wasn't a good way of getting the tank in there.

The first thing you need to do is stop thinking logically, and that's not meant as a joke. Very little about the CARB requirements in these situations comes down to logic, best I can tell. And regarding your question, they look everything up. If you have a manual transmission, they will look up the engine# and see if that engine was approved for manual or automatic. For engines that come from a donor vehicle, they look up the VIN# and see what vehicle it came from and ensure that the recipient is the same class vehicle. Etc, etc.

Another interesting tidbit I learned, and one reason I ultimately went with the erod option instead of doing (potentially temporary) changes for the ref and then putting them back ... the ref now takes digital images of all the equipment he approves when he inspects it and that goes into the "file" for that car. When you go to your standard 2 yr smog inspection, they're now supposed to bring up those digital photos and ensure that everything is exactly the way it was when the ref approved it. Now I would bet that not every smog station is going to go to that effort and you might be able to find a station that you know won't go to that effort. But as I said before: I'm tired of headaches.

ryeguy2006a

iTrader: (27)

That is a nice car!! You should post up your build thread in our forum over at Transamcountry.com , we recently put up a LSx swap section. I have been trying to add valuable information there. Your build would be a great fit.

LS1Bandit

I was actually on transamcountry.com years ago when I first started the swap and I think I posted pictures too (somewhere around 2005 or 2006). But I haven't been on there in a while and it looks like my user/pass is no longer valid.

boardslide

iTrader: (17)

Thanks for all the great info. Good luck with the E-Rod.

LSM3

iTrader: (1)

#1) Find the list of counties that DO NOT have bi-annual smog. These counties only require smog checks when there is a transfer of title. Pick the county that is closest to you.

#2) Find a UPS store in that county and get a mailbox address.

#3) Change the address on your registration to the new address in the new county...DONE

1964SS

iTrader: (1)

Have you already ordered the erod crate engine? I've never checked the prices of those motors, but I found this on craigslist today and thought I would share. Are they really that expensive?

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/pts/3467571974.html

LS1Bandit

Thanks for looking out for me! My engine has already been ordered and will hopefully arrive at the shop sometime this week. As for price, I was a little shocked at first with what the craigslist was asking (12,194) until I read further. That price included the erod package plus other stuff. He seems to be selling the erod itself for 7,728. I believe GM gives different dealers different prices, so I don't want to post what I'm paying but I'll say I don't feel I missed out on a deal with the craigslist one.

But to answer your question - yes, they're expensive. MSRP is 9,375. But as with most things, street price is lower.

Ls1.63cad

Ca requires you to do the full factyoory gm erod swap engine harness ecm cats etc. Thats why the price gets so high

brian g

iTrader: (1)

Man it kills me to hear how much a pain it is to do swaps in Cali, But when your a large new automotive manufacturer with big bucks to fill up political campaign funds for future political favors-you can than sell E-rods for 9K and OEM catalytic convetrs for 600$ a pop and make all that politician bribing pay off.
BTW I think the only involvement the tree huggers had in this debauchery was to stay out of it.
I'm glad you got a decent deal on the engine, and I hope to have an alternate adress if I ever move back to Cali

3D87C4

Hey, good luck with your swap, I have an EROD going into my Corvette & they're just about to start it.

LS1Bandit

As an update ... the EROD installation is done and I took it to the smog ref yesterday. Now here's a *very* interesting bit of info for anyone considering (or doing) an EROD installation:

The ref told me that I did NOT need to go to a ref and that I could have just gone to a regular smog station. Say WHAT?? He even called his "boss" (or whomever refs call with questions) to confirm. Since the entire kit-n-kaboodle has an executive order covering it for installations into pre-1995 vehicles, you don't have to follow the normal engine conversion procedures.

He asked if I wanted him to do the smog check since I was there anyway and I said "sure". He went over all the parts, did the dyno and tail pipe, etc. all of which passed. Unfortunately it was ultimately a FAIL because it threw a lean fuel code, so I need to work that out. But he said as soon as I get that taken care of my setup will be an easy PASS, and as stated earlier, I can just take it to a normal smog station instead of setting up another appointment with a ref.

So it looks like project LS1Bandit ... errrrr LS3Bandit is close to the finish line!

And I'd definitely say that if you need to pass smog - especially CA smog - and you've got the money, the EROD is definitely the way to go.

ryeguy2006a

iTrader: (27)

Very nice. Pictures?

bczee

iTrader: (12)

Great news ! Your in the bay area... I am original from SF .. so maybe one day I'll be Abe to check out you project...

BC