99 E36 M3 LSx Build
06-01-2015, 08:55 AM
#162
Made some good progress on the collector since last time
I ordered a CK 70 amp microtorch to weld the inside of the merge. It can probably be done without one of these, but I couldn't really see a way to get down in there with the standard 17 with a big cup needed to stick the tungsten out far enough to reach. This ended up working really nice - plenty of room to manipulate the torch angle as necessary, though positioning the filler was still kind of difficult.
Inside of the collector welded and blended
Next I had to expand the weld seams at the outlet so that it would mate up to the secondary portion of the collector. This is usually done on a hydraulic tubing expander but I don't have the coin for one of those, so just hammered it out carefully on a shot bag.
Retention tabs/springs positioned and tacked
Everything tacked up with the double slip "stubs" slid into place for alignment
Welding the double slips.
Some time later:
I still need to finish welding the vband flange on, but before I do I want to figure out a means of clamping it down to an aluminum chill block to keep it from warping.
This was a challenge and a half. So much respect for the pros that do this stuff full time and make it look easy.
Header build out to resume shortly.
I ordered a CK 70 amp microtorch to weld the inside of the merge. It can probably be done without one of these, but I couldn't really see a way to get down in there with the standard 17 with a big cup needed to stick the tungsten out far enough to reach. This ended up working really nice - plenty of room to manipulate the torch angle as necessary, though positioning the filler was still kind of difficult.
Inside of the collector welded and blended
Next I had to expand the weld seams at the outlet so that it would mate up to the secondary portion of the collector. This is usually done on a hydraulic tubing expander but I don't have the coin for one of those, so just hammered it out carefully on a shot bag.
Retention tabs/springs positioned and tacked
Everything tacked up with the double slip "stubs" slid into place for alignment
Welding the double slips.
Some time later:
I still need to finish welding the vband flange on, but before I do I want to figure out a means of clamping it down to an aluminum chill block to keep it from warping.
This was a challenge and a half. So much respect for the pros that do this stuff full time and make it look easy.
Header build out to resume shortly.
06-16-2015, 09:49 AM
#163
Over the past week I've been able to get the new collector repositioned under the car and start linking the primaries back up to it. It was a challenge getting the fit at the collector to the point that I could hold the tube with one hand and fusion tack it with the tig in the other while lying under the car lol - much less forgiving since it needs to be a tight fitting butt joint on either side to weld up nice.
Things got a little interesting with #7 - fighting tight clearances with the steering shaft and frame rail while also trying to maximize spark plug / wire clearance. The bend radius of the mandrel bent tubing wasn't getting it done so I opted to try some pie cuts to get tighter bends out of it.
Was able to maximize spark wire clearance pretty well. Fitment between the steering shaft and frame rail is about as good as it can be with the space I have available - about 3/8" on either side.
I have the final pieces for #7 cut but it was late and I ran out of steam / patience for fitup at the collector. Almost ready to pull it out and weld up the primaries.
Things got a little interesting with #7 - fighting tight clearances with the steering shaft and frame rail while also trying to maximize spark plug / wire clearance. The bend radius of the mandrel bent tubing wasn't getting it done so I opted to try some pie cuts to get tighter bends out of it.
Was able to maximize spark wire clearance pretty well. Fitment between the steering shaft and frame rail is about as good as it can be with the space I have available - about 3/8" on either side.
I have the final pieces for #7 cut but it was late and I ran out of steam / patience for fitup at the collector. Almost ready to pull it out and weld up the primaries.
07-27-2015, 12:59 PM
#166
Decent bit of progress over the past few weeks.
My previous #7 routing looked goofy to me so I reworked it a bit and tweaked a few areas for improved clearances.
Motor mount clearance - I will be wrapping the isolator with adhesive backed reflective tape.
With my engine positioning and thicker valve cover gaskets required for the rockers to clear the covers, the stock brake booster wasn't going to work. After a bit of research I bought a dual diaphram booster out of an E34 540i on ebay. There are a couple problems with this booster - 1) the pedal clevis is too narrow to fit the e36 brake pedal and 2) the mounting studs are too short to make it all the way through the firewall and e36 pedal assembly with enough thread engagement and 3) the increased height puts the booster in extremely close proximity to the plug wire connection on the #7 coil pack. There's room on the coil bracket to shift the #7 coil forward slightly, so that's what I did. Not really difficult problems to solve but things to overcome nonetheless.
E36 booster (left ~ 11" dia) vs. e34 540i booster (right ~ 9.5" dia)
Clevis difference - (e36 top vs. e34 bottom). I couldn't figure out a way to disassemble the boosters and just swap the pushrods cleanly so I just cut of the e36 clevis and welded it onto the e34 booster.
Resulting clearance to #7 primary (good thing I moved it)
Clearance to valve cover with the thicker yella terra gaskets
The booster needed to be clocked 180 degrees from the typical e36 position so the check valve didn't interfere with the valve cover. The M3 master seemed to bolt up fine. For vacuum line routing, I picked up a 90 degree check valve out of an E36 318 along with a length of bmw 12mm vacuum hose. This also matches the port size on the back of the FAST 102 intake, so no need for an adapter.
Still have to relocate the pedal travel sensor but that can wait. Figured I'd share these details because there wasn't a whole lot of info out there when I bought this stuff. While it's not direct bolt in, it's not really that hard to make work either....hope this helps someone.
With booster clearance sorted out I put some additional tacks on the header and pulled it out of the car.
Primaries pulled apart and cleaned
44 welds in total.....time consuming would be an understatement.
Some of the welds......they're 20 footers. Consistency needs a lot of work but there's only one way to get better.
Put back in the car for final test fit and tacking the flange on
Inside of flange welded - I tried to keep heat input to a minimum, skipping around alot to spread out the heat and hopefully reduce distortion.
Sanded and ported
Numerous articles / forum posts I came across recommended tig brazing the exterior fillet weld with silicon bronze, so I figured I'd try it. It's a lot more forgiving than stainless (in terms of elongation properties) and is supposed to help prevent stress cracking as a result of thermal expansion. This stuff was tricky to work with - doesn't flow nearly as nice as stainless with the added challenge of trying not to melt any of the base metal into the braze joint. Washing too much steel into it embrittles it and makes it crack. I bolted the flange up to a big piece of aluminum to act as a chill block to try and keep flange distortion down - I left it bolted up until everything was cool and it still warped a bit since space constraints (and my inexperience) forced me to go pretty slow. It pulls flat pretty easily when bolted down though so I'm not too concerned about it, not that I could really do anything about it now anyway.
Back in the car.....still fits!
Driver side finally done!
Now time for the passenger side:
My fbody starter was a dud, so since I needed a replacement anyway I figured I'd get a mini starter to help with clearances and potential heat soak problems. I opted for a powermaster 9509 starter. It's ~1.5" shorter than the fbody fwiw....not really any smaller in diameter. I'll be wrapping this in a thermal blanket to help protect it.
Plenty of room on this side (forgive the surface rust....body work is next)
Second collector taking shape
Positioned under the car
Spent months on the drivers side. Progress after 2 days on the passenger side lol. A little more work to do before it's ready to weld but it's close...some things may need to move because I forgot to bring the dipstick up to check clearances, but probably another week or two and this will be done.
More soon, thanks for looking.
My previous #7 routing looked goofy to me so I reworked it a bit and tweaked a few areas for improved clearances.
Motor mount clearance - I will be wrapping the isolator with adhesive backed reflective tape.
With my engine positioning and thicker valve cover gaskets required for the rockers to clear the covers, the stock brake booster wasn't going to work. After a bit of research I bought a dual diaphram booster out of an E34 540i on ebay. There are a couple problems with this booster - 1) the pedal clevis is too narrow to fit the e36 brake pedal and 2) the mounting studs are too short to make it all the way through the firewall and e36 pedal assembly with enough thread engagement and 3) the increased height puts the booster in extremely close proximity to the plug wire connection on the #7 coil pack. There's room on the coil bracket to shift the #7 coil forward slightly, so that's what I did. Not really difficult problems to solve but things to overcome nonetheless.
E36 booster (left ~ 11" dia) vs. e34 540i booster (right ~ 9.5" dia)
Clevis difference - (e36 top vs. e34 bottom). I couldn't figure out a way to disassemble the boosters and just swap the pushrods cleanly so I just cut of the e36 clevis and welded it onto the e34 booster.
Resulting clearance to #7 primary (good thing I moved it)
Clearance to valve cover with the thicker yella terra gaskets
The booster needed to be clocked 180 degrees from the typical e36 position so the check valve didn't interfere with the valve cover. The M3 master seemed to bolt up fine. For vacuum line routing, I picked up a 90 degree check valve out of an E36 318 along with a length of bmw 12mm vacuum hose. This also matches the port size on the back of the FAST 102 intake, so no need for an adapter.
Still have to relocate the pedal travel sensor but that can wait. Figured I'd share these details because there wasn't a whole lot of info out there when I bought this stuff. While it's not direct bolt in, it's not really that hard to make work either....hope this helps someone.
With booster clearance sorted out I put some additional tacks on the header and pulled it out of the car.
Primaries pulled apart and cleaned
44 welds in total.....time consuming would be an understatement.
Some of the welds......they're 20 footers. Consistency needs a lot of work but there's only one way to get better.
Put back in the car for final test fit and tacking the flange on
Inside of flange welded - I tried to keep heat input to a minimum, skipping around alot to spread out the heat and hopefully reduce distortion.
Sanded and ported
Numerous articles / forum posts I came across recommended tig brazing the exterior fillet weld with silicon bronze, so I figured I'd try it. It's a lot more forgiving than stainless (in terms of elongation properties) and is supposed to help prevent stress cracking as a result of thermal expansion. This stuff was tricky to work with - doesn't flow nearly as nice as stainless with the added challenge of trying not to melt any of the base metal into the braze joint. Washing too much steel into it embrittles it and makes it crack. I bolted the flange up to a big piece of aluminum to act as a chill block to try and keep flange distortion down - I left it bolted up until everything was cool and it still warped a bit since space constraints (and my inexperience) forced me to go pretty slow. It pulls flat pretty easily when bolted down though so I'm not too concerned about it, not that I could really do anything about it now anyway.
Back in the car.....still fits!
Driver side finally done!
Now time for the passenger side:
My fbody starter was a dud, so since I needed a replacement anyway I figured I'd get a mini starter to help with clearances and potential heat soak problems. I opted for a powermaster 9509 starter. It's ~1.5" shorter than the fbody fwiw....not really any smaller in diameter. I'll be wrapping this in a thermal blanket to help protect it.
Plenty of room on this side (forgive the surface rust....body work is next)
Second collector taking shape
Positioned under the car
Spent months on the drivers side. Progress after 2 days on the passenger side lol. A little more work to do before it's ready to weld but it's close...some things may need to move because I forgot to bring the dipstick up to check clearances, but probably another week or two and this will be done.
More soon, thanks for looking.
08-05-2015, 09:24 AM
#172
Wow thanks for the compliment.
The fitup process was VERY time consuming (and somewhat maddening)- especially the final pieces that connected the header side to the collector side. There's no shortcuts you can take especially if you don't want things to move when you pull it out to weld it....just requires a lot of patience and careful adjustments.
The driver's side turned out ok I think but I'm not really all that happy about how the braze job on the flange turned out. The aluminum heat sink I bolted to the flange in an attempt to keep it flat required me to use a lot more amperage than I would have needed otherwise - as a result the braze kept cracking on me because some steel was getting washed in with it. I had to take it out with a burr, then go back over it which resulted in more heat input. I may cut it off and try again - either braze with a smaller filler size and no heat sink or just weld it on with some 347 stainless. 347 filler is compatible in apps where 308 is used but has higher temperature stability and creep resistance above 700F.
There's some other things I'm going to try to do differently on the passenger side - 1 of those is reducing the number of pieces and welds I need to make. I also just picked up some .035" filler to see if I can make the welds with less amperage and more consistent penetration. 50 amps pedal down seemed to be ideal for .045" filler but the welds themselves were I think bigger than they needed to be. Also undecided on what to do on the driver's side flange - I'm either going to try brazing again with a smaller filler size or welding it on with some 347. A lot more practicing to do.
To give you guys an idea of the bigger picture - after the headers are finished, I'm going to start working on the body. I need to finish seam welding and will be re-undercoating the undercarriage to protect my work so picked up a rotisserie kit. Still need to pick up steel and weld it all together but here's the kit I bought in case anyone is interested: http://store.uscartool.com/car-rotisserie-kit.html.
The fitup process was VERY time consuming (and somewhat maddening)- especially the final pieces that connected the header side to the collector side. There's no shortcuts you can take especially if you don't want things to move when you pull it out to weld it....just requires a lot of patience and careful adjustments.
The driver's side turned out ok I think but I'm not really all that happy about how the braze job on the flange turned out. The aluminum heat sink I bolted to the flange in an attempt to keep it flat required me to use a lot more amperage than I would have needed otherwise - as a result the braze kept cracking on me because some steel was getting washed in with it. I had to take it out with a burr, then go back over it which resulted in more heat input. I may cut it off and try again - either braze with a smaller filler size and no heat sink or just weld it on with some 347 stainless. 347 filler is compatible in apps where 308 is used but has higher temperature stability and creep resistance above 700F.
There's some other things I'm going to try to do differently on the passenger side - 1 of those is reducing the number of pieces and welds I need to make. I also just picked up some .035" filler to see if I can make the welds with less amperage and more consistent penetration. 50 amps pedal down seemed to be ideal for .045" filler but the welds themselves were I think bigger than they needed to be. Also undecided on what to do on the driver's side flange - I'm either going to try brazing again with a smaller filler size or welding it on with some 347. A lot more practicing to do.
To give you guys an idea of the bigger picture - after the headers are finished, I'm going to start working on the body. I need to finish seam welding and will be re-undercoating the undercarriage to protect my work so picked up a rotisserie kit. Still need to pick up steel and weld it all together but here's the kit I bought in case anyone is interested: http://store.uscartool.com/car-rotisserie-kit.html.
08-31-2015, 09:46 AM
#173
Got the passenger side just about done, only thing left to do is weld the flange on inside and out, finish welding the collector spring retainers and install 02 bungs. I'm going to do the flange exterior fillet weld with 347 stainless instead of silicon bronze this time....I'm having a hard time keeping the braze metal from cracking even with low amperage.
The only thing that sucks about the fitment on this side is that in order to maximize ground clearance, the header will need to be dropped to change out a starter motor in the event that it fails. I was able to maintain a good amount of space around it and it will have a heat blanket as well, so hopefully I will never need to do this.
Anyways, here's a few pics.
Fitup complete....really can't cheat at this step. Takes an inexperienced guy like me forever to do it - countless trips up and down out of the car sanding things to fit just right. It's an exercise in patience but it helps prevent excessive warpage during welding that would otherwise hose your final fitment once you try to assemble everything (ask me how I know)
Pulled apart and cleaned up with the scotchbrite belt
purge / welding setup
I welded this side with .035" 308 filler and ~42 amps vs. .045" and 50 amps on the driver's side. Amazing what a difference those small changes made to the overall heat input. Consistency still needs a lot of work but I'm much happier with how this side turned out. Much less overall heat input, better color, more consistent bead profile and penetration.
I bought a spare flange and practiced some welding with .045" 347 filler, around 80 amps here focused on the flange then washed up onto the tubing. 347 seems to be a lot more colorful than 308 - pretty rewarding to weld with
How she sits currently
In other news, I cut out my front and rear windshields to prep the chassis for going up onto the rotisserie to finish seam welding and reapplying undercoating to the undercarriage. Rear glass came out fine but I cracked the front just as I was cutting the last corner.....turns out the knife I was using wasn't long enough to get all the way through the urethane and I got a little too impatient....oh well. It wasn't OEM glass anyway.
More soon gents, thanks for looking.
The only thing that sucks about the fitment on this side is that in order to maximize ground clearance, the header will need to be dropped to change out a starter motor in the event that it fails. I was able to maintain a good amount of space around it and it will have a heat blanket as well, so hopefully I will never need to do this.
Anyways, here's a few pics.
Fitup complete....really can't cheat at this step. Takes an inexperienced guy like me forever to do it - countless trips up and down out of the car sanding things to fit just right. It's an exercise in patience but it helps prevent excessive warpage during welding that would otherwise hose your final fitment once you try to assemble everything (ask me how I know)
Pulled apart and cleaned up with the scotchbrite belt
purge / welding setup
I welded this side with .035" 308 filler and ~42 amps vs. .045" and 50 amps on the driver's side. Amazing what a difference those small changes made to the overall heat input. Consistency still needs a lot of work but I'm much happier with how this side turned out. Much less overall heat input, better color, more consistent bead profile and penetration.
I bought a spare flange and practiced some welding with .045" 347 filler, around 80 amps here focused on the flange then washed up onto the tubing. 347 seems to be a lot more colorful than 308 - pretty rewarding to weld with
How she sits currently
In other news, I cut out my front and rear windshields to prep the chassis for going up onto the rotisserie to finish seam welding and reapplying undercoating to the undercarriage. Rear glass came out fine but I cracked the front just as I was cutting the last corner.....turns out the knife I was using wasn't long enough to get all the way through the urethane and I got a little too impatient....oh well. It wasn't OEM glass anyway.
More soon gents, thanks for looking.
11-01-2015, 10:42 AM
#175
Haven't updated in a while....busy with work, school, and trying to prepare my shop for winter. Installed a ceiling, added insulation, sheathed / tyvek'd the exterior walls, installed a new man door, and the list goes on.
I've been slowly chipping away at the rest of the exhaust system. I was inspired by David Vizard's article on zero loss exhaust systems that was written a while back and decided to try designing the rest of my system based on those concepts. This is a harmonics termination box I built....it came out to be ~ 12.0L. It's 24" long and approximately 9" wide. Fits up inside the tunnel pretty nicely.
Started with a cad model to get the front and rear endplate designs. Then printed them out 1:1 and converted them to stainless.
It's hard to tell in the pictures because I suck at photography but the term box is flush with the floor pan, ~ 1.5-2" between it and the driveshaft.
As for the rest of the system, I'll be going from the headers into 3" flex pipes, high flow cats, then into the term box. Then out back I'll be stepping down to dual 2.5"s, using two borla s-type mufflers and a pair of dual exhaust tips I got from Redtail Performance. They fit the cutout in the bumper perfectly - I just have to mirror it on the other side. No idea how loud this is going to be - these mufflers are the same ones used on corvette s-type systems and they sound great to me, so I'm going for it. If I need to change it up I will.
Hoping to get the exhaust system finished then I will be switching gears to body work. More soon.
I've been slowly chipping away at the rest of the exhaust system. I was inspired by David Vizard's article on zero loss exhaust systems that was written a while back and decided to try designing the rest of my system based on those concepts. This is a harmonics termination box I built....it came out to be ~ 12.0L. It's 24" long and approximately 9" wide. Fits up inside the tunnel pretty nicely.
Started with a cad model to get the front and rear endplate designs. Then printed them out 1:1 and converted them to stainless.
It's hard to tell in the pictures because I suck at photography but the term box is flush with the floor pan, ~ 1.5-2" between it and the driveshaft.
As for the rest of the system, I'll be going from the headers into 3" flex pipes, high flow cats, then into the term box. Then out back I'll be stepping down to dual 2.5"s, using two borla s-type mufflers and a pair of dual exhaust tips I got from Redtail Performance. They fit the cutout in the bumper perfectly - I just have to mirror it on the other side. No idea how loud this is going to be - these mufflers are the same ones used on corvette s-type systems and they sound great to me, so I'm going for it. If I need to change it up I will.
Hoping to get the exhaust system finished then I will be switching gears to body work. More soon.
11-01-2015, 12:15 PM
#176
WOW> great work. I agree that you can deff. see the difference in your welding skill. Those slight differences of heat and thinner wire made a huge difference. Seeing your build threads always lights the fire to keep me motivated.
I am sure it does this to much of us. And for that, I want to thank you Mr. Cpitt55
I am sure it does this to much of us. And for that, I want to thank you Mr. Cpitt55
