Finally on the road....trans problems
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From: Elkridge MD
Finally on the road....trans problems Ok, I have been test driving the car several times and I am having some transmission issues. Transmissions confuse me...I wouldn't be surprised if someone told me the insides are made with unicorn hooves and fairy wings.
Anyway, the engine seems to run fine (now that I fixed my miss). The transmission feels like it is shifting at the wrong times or something. Sometimes the car doesn't want to really move, sometimes it feels good and strong. When it does shift, it's pretty firm, not slushy.
I had a slight leak at the rear seal, so I put in a new one. After my test drive 2 days ago, I was thinking of what could be wrong. Checked the fluid while hot and at idle, and it was low. I added something like 2 quarts to get it on the stick. The rear seal wasn't leaking at all, so I was happy. Then I let it sit until yesterday because of rain.
When I drove it yesterday, it still felt the same. I drove around the neighborhood, and then when I got back to the driveway I notice quite a bit of fluid that had come out sometime between test drives. I am positive it wasn't leaking when I parked it. Also, weirdly enough, it wasn't leaking a drop from anywhere when I parked it yesterday.
Anyway, I have NO idea how to deal with transmission issues. Can anyone tell me what things I should check? Should I just put this pile of junk in Neutral and push it down the hill into the woods or what?
2005 LS2 (GTO), 2000 4L60e (Camaro). Converter is 2500 stall.
.
Anyway, the engine seems to run fine (now that I fixed my miss). The transmission feels like it is shifting at the wrong times or something. Sometimes the car doesn't want to really move, sometimes it feels good and strong. When it does shift, it's pretty firm, not slushy.
I had a slight leak at the rear seal, so I put in a new one. After my test drive 2 days ago, I was thinking of what could be wrong. Checked the fluid while hot and at idle, and it was low. I added something like 2 quarts to get it on the stick. The rear seal wasn't leaking at all, so I was happy. Then I let it sit until yesterday because of rain.
When I drove it yesterday, it still felt the same. I drove around the neighborhood, and then when I got back to the driveway I notice quite a bit of fluid that had come out sometime between test drives. I am positive it wasn't leaking when I parked it. Also, weirdly enough, it wasn't leaking a drop from anywhere when I parked it yesterday.
Anyway, I have NO idea how to deal with transmission issues. Can anyone tell me what things I should check? Should I just put this pile of junk in Neutral and push it down the hill into the woods or what?
2005 LS2 (GTO), 2000 4L60e (Camaro). Converter is 2500 stall.
.
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From: Elkridge MD
I know SOME was put in it but I don't know how much. Car has been running enough times that I would have thought the converter would have worked itself into the system. Or does that require a load on the drivetrain to get it filled up?
I never saw unicorn hooves or fairy wings in one, but I'm not an expert in such things.
The technique for getting the fluid level right that has worked for me for years is:
This all is assuming you have a stock style stick or an aftermarket stick that has been checked to ensure accuracy. Some aftermarket sticks are a bit off.
If you've never driven a car with an aftermarket stall converter they are a little odd and take some getting used to. It will not drive like your daily driver unless you spend big $$$ for one that is all billet and has better than stock clutches lined with something more stout than stock converters. The better clutches allow a lockup during shifting and at lower speeds to help eliminate the slip of a stall when it isn't needed. A stalled car will drive like a stalled car which means it is not going to straight off "go" when you lightly roll on the throttle. It's a bit more like a stick with a new-ish person on the clutch before you get to the stall speed. Driving one takes a bit more of an aggressive style below the stall speed.
Something else is depending on who setup the PCM, the stall and / or gears and tire size may or may not have been accounted for which will lead to odd shift points. From your description I'm leaning more toward the stall. Personally, I'm not a fan of inexpensive stalled automatics for that reason.
The technique for getting the fluid level right that has worked for me for years is:
- Put some fluid in the torque converter before installation (it can't be full because you have to tip it to install).
- Install the converter to the transmission, but leave the transmission dry.
- Install the transmission in the vehicle and top off until it reads on the stick.
- Start the vehicle and allow to come up to temp.
- Check for leaks.
- With brakes locked, run through all the gears on the selector for 15 to 30 seconds each.
- Leave vehicle running and check level, top off as necessary.
- Repeat from #6 until level stays constant.
- Test drive.
This all is assuming you have a stock style stick or an aftermarket stick that has been checked to ensure accuracy. Some aftermarket sticks are a bit off.
If you've never driven a car with an aftermarket stall converter they are a little odd and take some getting used to. It will not drive like your daily driver unless you spend big $$$ for one that is all billet and has better than stock clutches lined with something more stout than stock converters. The better clutches allow a lockup during shifting and at lower speeds to help eliminate the slip of a stall when it isn't needed. A stalled car will drive like a stalled car which means it is not going to straight off "go" when you lightly roll on the throttle. It's a bit more like a stick with a new-ish person on the clutch before you get to the stall speed. Driving one takes a bit more of an aggressive style below the stall speed.
Something else is depending on who setup the PCM, the stall and / or gears and tire size may or may not have been accounted for which will lead to odd shift points. From your description I'm leaning more toward the stall. Personally, I'm not a fan of inexpensive stalled automatics for that reason.
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From: Elkridge MD
I think I followed that basic procedure.
I expected it to be a little quirky with the slightly higher than stock stall (I think stock is 1850 or something, and I got one with 2500 since the car is fairly heavy). It's more than quirky though...it feels wrong. Inconsistent too.
Dipstick is the stock one. A friend of mine who is used to driving racecars with high stalls (4500 I think?) says it feels funny to him too when I let him drive it. Engine wants to go but car doesn't...some of the time anyway. Other times it comes alive.
I sent the computer and the trans computer out to be reprogrammed. On the sheet I filled out, I told him the gear I would be using and also the stall, exhaust setup, etc etc. Assuming he followed the sheet, that stuff SHOULD be correct.
So is there anything I can do to narrow down the problem? Could we have wired up the TCC switch incorrectly and maybe that is causing it?
I expected it to be a little quirky with the slightly higher than stock stall (I think stock is 1850 or something, and I got one with 2500 since the car is fairly heavy). It's more than quirky though...it feels wrong. Inconsistent too.
Dipstick is the stock one. A friend of mine who is used to driving racecars with high stalls (4500 I think?) says it feels funny to him too when I let him drive it. Engine wants to go but car doesn't...some of the time anyway. Other times it comes alive.
I sent the computer and the trans computer out to be reprogrammed. On the sheet I filled out, I told him the gear I would be using and also the stall, exhaust setup, etc etc. Assuming he followed the sheet, that stuff SHOULD be correct.
So is there anything I can do to narrow down the problem? Could we have wired up the TCC switch incorrectly and maybe that is causing it?
Inconsistent is not good, a stall will be weird but always the same. I was hoping the problem was the typical "I've never driven a stalled auto" complaint. If your friend who has driven stalled cars thinks it's wrong, that is no good. 
Hopefully it's not a defective transmission.
Hopefully it's not a defective transmission.
Ok, I have been test driving the car several times and I am having some transmission issues. Transmissions confuse me...I wouldn't be surprised if someone told me the insides are made with unicorn hooves and fairy wings.
Anyway, the engine seems to run fine (now that I fixed my miss). The transmission feels like it is shifting at the wrong times or something. Sometimes the car doesn't want to really move, sometimes it feels good and strong. When it does shift, it's pretty firm, not slushy.
I had a slight leak at the rear seal, so I put in a new one. After my test drive 2 days ago, I was thinking of what could be wrong. Checked the fluid while hot and at idle, and it was low. I added something like 2 quarts to get it on the stick. The rear seal wasn't leaking at all, so I was happy. Then I let it sit until yesterday because of rain.
When I drove it yesterday, it still felt the same. I drove around the neighborhood, and then when I got back to the driveway I notice quite a bit of fluid that had come out sometime between test drives. I am positive it wasn't leaking when I parked it. Also, weirdly enough, it wasn't leaking a drop from anywhere when I parked it yesterday.
Anyway, I have NO idea how to deal with transmission issues. Can anyone tell me what things I should check? Should I just put this pile of junk in Neutral and push it down the hill into the woods or what?
2005 LS2 (GTO), 2000 4L60e (Camaro). Converter is 2500 stall.
.
Anyway, the engine seems to run fine (now that I fixed my miss). The transmission feels like it is shifting at the wrong times or something. Sometimes the car doesn't want to really move, sometimes it feels good and strong. When it does shift, it's pretty firm, not slushy.
I had a slight leak at the rear seal, so I put in a new one. After my test drive 2 days ago, I was thinking of what could be wrong. Checked the fluid while hot and at idle, and it was low. I added something like 2 quarts to get it on the stick. The rear seal wasn't leaking at all, so I was happy. Then I let it sit until yesterday because of rain.
When I drove it yesterday, it still felt the same. I drove around the neighborhood, and then when I got back to the driveway I notice quite a bit of fluid that had come out sometime between test drives. I am positive it wasn't leaking when I parked it. Also, weirdly enough, it wasn't leaking a drop from anywhere when I parked it yesterday.
Anyway, I have NO idea how to deal with transmission issues. Can anyone tell me what things I should check? Should I just put this pile of junk in Neutral and push it down the hill into the woods or what?
2005 LS2 (GTO), 2000 4L60e (Camaro). Converter is 2500 stall.
.
Another thought on the leak is you may have somehow overfilled it and it's pushing out the vent tube. Are you running a cooler? Smell the fluid and see if it's burnt (you'll know)...
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From: Elkridge MD
What converter? I can tell you from experience, when it comes to converters you get what you pay for. I had a 12" 3000 stall (restalled stock) converter in my turbo S-truck that drove like absolute crap but was only $275. After admitting my "cheapness" and stepping up to a $700 single disc 9.5" 3400 stall PI Vigilante, the difference was like night and day! Besides driving like a normal car instead of a yo-yo, it chopped 6 tenths off my 0 - 60 and a second off my quarter time.
Another thought on the leak is you may have somehow overfilled it and it's pushing out the vent tube. Are you running a cooler? Smell the fluid and see if it's burnt (you'll know)...
Another thought on the leak is you may have somehow overfilled it and it's pushing out the vent tube. Are you running a cooler? Smell the fluid and see if it's burnt (you'll know)...
I am running a trans cooler, yes. Fluid still looks nice and red, and there's no burnt smell.
How did you determine it was a bad converter?
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You may also want to throw a set of gauges on the Transmission to make sure you don't have a pump pressure issue before actually condemning the converter.
If the trans is shifting too early then you need an adjustment in the tune.
If the trans is shifting too early then you need an adjustment in the tune.
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From: Elkridge MD
I just thought of something...tell me your thoughts....
When I installed the shifter, I noticed it was impossible to install the shift lever AND the range switch. I asked around and the general consensus was that I didn't NEED it. I had my wiring guy use the switches provided by B&M to tell the car it is in N or P (in other words, a neutral safety switch only).
But is it possible that eliminating the range switch has my car confused? Like it doesn't know what gear its in?
My setup has both an ECM and TCM (2005 LS2 from GTO)
When I installed the shifter, I noticed it was impossible to install the shift lever AND the range switch. I asked around and the general consensus was that I didn't NEED it. I had my wiring guy use the switches provided by B&M to tell the car it is in N or P (in other words, a neutral safety switch only).
But is it possible that eliminating the range switch has my car confused? Like it doesn't know what gear its in?
My setup has both an ECM and TCM (2005 LS2 from GTO)
I just thought of something...tell me your thoughts....
When I installed the shifter, I noticed it was impossible to install the shift lever AND the range switch. I asked around and the general consensus was that I didn't NEED it. I had my wiring guy use the switches provided by B&M to tell the car it is in N or P (in other words, a neutral safety switch only).
But is it possible that eliminating the range switch has my car confused? Like it doesn't know what gear its in?
My setup has both an ECM and TCM (2005 LS2 from GTO)
When I installed the shifter, I noticed it was impossible to install the shift lever AND the range switch. I asked around and the general consensus was that I didn't NEED it. I had my wiring guy use the switches provided by B&M to tell the car it is in N or P (in other words, a neutral safety switch only).
But is it possible that eliminating the range switch has my car confused? Like it doesn't know what gear its in?
My setup has both an ECM and TCM (2005 LS2 from GTO)
I would think that the TCM and ECU would need to know which gear it's in but I am not overly familiar with a swap like this. Possibly hooking up a scan tool that can monitor those things might show you what it's doing.
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From: Elkridge MD
Any more ideas on the missing range switch theory guys?
I drove the car to the alignment shop today, and it drives, but it doesn't feel right. Engine sounds good and responds to my foot well, but it just feels like the car doesn't want to move. When I am just putting along, even at 45ish mph, it's fine, but when I give it gas, it complains.
This thing has an engine computer and a transmission computer. I am thinking the car doesn't know what it is doing.
I drove the car to the alignment shop today, and it drives, but it doesn't feel right. Engine sounds good and responds to my foot well, but it just feels like the car doesn't want to move. When I am just putting along, even at 45ish mph, it's fine, but when I give it gas, it complains.
This thing has an engine computer and a transmission computer. I am thinking the car doesn't know what it is doing.
From what I've read the range switch isn't going to create (or cure) a drivability problem outside of park / neutral idle range. My understanding of the range switch is more for park / neutral idle control and park / neutral safety. I've run and seen them done both ways with no driving difference.
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From: Elkridge MD
From what I've read the range switch isn't going to create (or cure) a drivability problem outside of park / neutral idle range. My understanding of the range switch is more for park / neutral idle control and park / neutral safety. I've run and seen them done both ways with no driving difference.
I understand if you don't have access to something of that caliber - most don't and you have to get by with what you can.
Last edited by gofastwclass; Jul 1, 2014 at 06:08 PM.
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From: Elkridge MD
You can do that, but most affordable handheld scanners typically don't data log which is what you need. You can't expect to watch the scanner while driving and even if you could, you need to have a baseline from a similar vehicle (drivetrain) to possibly understand what is wrong. I don't use handheld scanners much anymore (beyond checking codes) for that reason. I like HP Tuners because of it's flexibility and nearly infinite logging capability and I know EFI Live is similar. I prefer the software scanners because aside from logging and playback, they allow you to choose what to scan and allow you to adjust the display to something that makes sense. This way you can log what you feel is necessary and eliminate the things that are operating normally.
I understand if you don't have access to something of that caliber - most don't and you have to get by with what you can.
I understand if you don't have access to something of that caliber - most don't and you have to get by with what you can.
I did notice today that the car is stressed a lot more going uphill. Certainly any car would be, but this is really evident when I am on an incline. Engine starts roaring and even when I give it gas, the engine responds but the car doesn't. I have to literally back off the gas and kinda crawl uphill.
I am really an idiot when it comes to transmissions....does this sounds like something you have heard of?
No actually I have a friend with one of those high end $5000 scanners. He is just hard to get ahold of. I will see if I can get him over here and plug it in.
I did notice today that the car is stressed a lot more going uphill. Certainly any car would be, but this is really evident when I am on an incline. Engine starts roaring and even when I give it gas, the engine responds but the car doesn't. I have to literally back off the gas and kinda crawl uphill.
I am really an idiot when it comes to transmissions....does this sounds like something you have heard of?
I did notice today that the car is stressed a lot more going uphill. Certainly any car would be, but this is really evident when I am on an incline. Engine starts roaring and even when I give it gas, the engine responds but the car doesn't. I have to literally back off the gas and kinda crawl uphill.
I am really an idiot when it comes to transmissions....does this sounds like something you have heard of?
Does it do it all the time from a dead stop or only while rolling? Does it seem like it revs too much and isn't taking off in first? Does it not "kick down" when you accelerate or go up a hill? If you don't have power to the transmission it won't shift properly and will start in second or third (I think it's third but I can't remember). It's a freaky feeling because you think the transmission is blown and it's actually a battery power issue. Maybe you have an intermittent short, loose connection or power drop that only affects the transmission. Sadly it's difficult to say on this side of the keyboard.
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From: Elkridge MD
Yeah he actually sort of runs his own business....which is why he is so hard to get ahold of. He did the wiring in my car...taken months and it's still not complete.
I think it only really happens when rolling. I am a little scared to stand on the gas from a dead stop to see if it takes off hard. When I drove uphill today, the incline was not much, and I wasn't going fast, maybe only 10-15mph. I assume it would have been in first gear for this, and as I gave it gas to get it to move faster, it didn't seem to want to shift (up or down). I just backed off and let it "idle" up the hill. If I do that, it doesn't seem to give me any complaints....it's just slow and has no power.
But anyway, a short or lack of battery power should show up on his scanner, right? Should I try to bang through the gears with the shifter and see what happens? Or will it still act the same if I do that?
I think it only really happens when rolling. I am a little scared to stand on the gas from a dead stop to see if it takes off hard. When I drove uphill today, the incline was not much, and I wasn't going fast, maybe only 10-15mph. I assume it would have been in first gear for this, and as I gave it gas to get it to move faster, it didn't seem to want to shift (up or down). I just backed off and let it "idle" up the hill. If I do that, it doesn't seem to give me any complaints....it's just slow and has no power.
But anyway, a short or lack of battery power should show up on his scanner, right? Should I try to bang through the gears with the shifter and see what happens? Or will it still act the same if I do that?
A short may not show on the scanner. The transmission is mostly reactive so something being "off" may not throw a code, but might appear incorrect to someone with an experienced eye who knows what to look for.
Manually shifting may or may not work. If memory serves me properly I don't believe it will. I'm not familiar enough with the internals to positively say and I found and fixed my friends wiring problem before I dug into the transmission so I never had to learn.
Manually shifting may or may not work. If memory serves me properly I don't believe it will. I'm not familiar enough with the internals to positively say and I found and fixed my friends wiring problem before I dug into the transmission so I never had to learn.
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From: Catonsville
I have been searching for this thread because I am having the same problem motor want to go but the car says no. But tomorrow I am going to try the shifting while in park sequence superdave 84 I'm also in md let me know if you find someone that can help us thanks.