cam vs stall question
cam vs stall question I have a 1999 5.3 with a Z06 cam into a 1987 Cadillac Brougham with the 4L60E transmission with a tune. 3.73 gears and a 8.5 rear end.
It seems slow off the line and I read a stall would greatly help.
My problem is if I get enough money over the winter I could either swap the cam for a Comp XR265 OR swap the stall but I cannot do both.
What is also important to me is that when I step on it to pass a car on the highway I want the car to go. Right now if it is to quick to downshift in second and stays in third it is so and so because of the low torque given by the Z06 cam in the 3000 RPM range.
I would do stall but not sure it will help with the highway passing much. Would the XR265 cam give better results?
I also want to remove the initial lethargy at off the line acceleration.
What is the better choice? Money wise also makes me go for the cam since I can sell the Z06 cam easier than the stock stall. Besides costing less. Car is a heavy pig
It seems slow off the line and I read a stall would greatly help.
My problem is if I get enough money over the winter I could either swap the cam for a Comp XR265 OR swap the stall but I cannot do both.
What is also important to me is that when I step on it to pass a car on the highway I want the car to go. Right now if it is to quick to downshift in second and stays in third it is so and so because of the low torque given by the Z06 cam in the 3000 RPM range.
I would do stall but not sure it will help with the highway passing much. Would the XR265 cam give better results?
I also want to remove the initial lethargy at off the line acceleration.
What is the better choice? Money wise also makes me go for the cam since I can sell the Z06 cam easier than the stock stall. Besides costing less. Car is a heavy pig
Based on that I would say go with the stall first. A Yank SS3200 or SS3600. Watch tthe classifieds and sometimes you can find good used for just a little more than the priice of a cam.
Street tune? Mail Order? I have no experience yet but have heard a good street tune with a known tuner can do wonders.
The LS6 cam(204/218 117.5 lsa -2.5) is totally the wrong cam for that +4200 lb car, but advancing the cam to move the ICL down 6-7* will help noticeably with the low end power. What you could do is buy a adjustable cam timing gear set and advance the cam from its 120*ICL to a 114* ICL. This will boost the DCR up and should move you power-band down roughly 450-550rpm, both a plus for better low rpm power. I'd also make sure to degree the cam to verify the new ICL. The would be the least expensive route to take, a tune to get the most power from it is also recommended..
IMO, even though a higher stall TC will help, the LS6 cam is really the wrong cam for that heavy car unless you advance it to change the valve events for better low rpm power. So, if by so chance changing the valve events doesn't make as much improvement as you want, then a TC with a 2800-3200 stall would be my next move.
IMO, even though a higher stall TC will help, the LS6 cam is really the wrong cam for that heavy car unless you advance it to change the valve events for better low rpm power. So, if by so chance changing the valve events doesn't make as much improvement as you want, then a TC with a 2800-3200 stall would be my next move.
Last edited by 99Bluz28; Jul 22, 2014 at 06:14 AM.
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I would try a tune first. One that boosts low and mid range torque. I would also change the trans shift points. Just remember cam and converter should be matched for best performance. Also you could save your pennies and get a 6.0 because there is no replacement for displacement(bigger engine more torque).
I do have a Blackbear tune.
Thanks for the advice guys, I might go with the cam instead. Just went to the track today.
Best time last year at 45 fahrenheit was 15.35 with stock 7.5 rear end, 2.73 gears 215/75/r15 tires and stock truck cam.
This year at 80 fahrenheit, 8.5 rear end with 3.73 gears, posi and Z06 cam. Guess what time...15.08s
I was expecting 13.8-14.2 based on this year's mods.
There is also a possible slight vacuum leak because I heard a small pop 2-3 timez but it was there last year.
I cannot believe the difference in temperaturs and loss of torque of the cam would account for that. I thought the cam might lose 10% of torque but I would have 35% more based on the new rear end ratio.
I am really deceived by the results
Thanks for the advice guys, I might go with the cam instead. Just went to the track today.
Best time last year at 45 fahrenheit was 15.35 with stock 7.5 rear end, 2.73 gears 215/75/r15 tires and stock truck cam.
This year at 80 fahrenheit, 8.5 rear end with 3.73 gears, posi and Z06 cam. Guess what time...15.08s
I was expecting 13.8-14.2 based on this year's mods.
There is also a possible slight vacuum leak because I heard a small pop 2-3 timez but it was there last year.
I cannot believe the difference in temperaturs and loss of torque of the cam would account for that. I thought the cam might lose 10% of torque but I would have 35% more based on the new rear end ratio.
I am really deceived by the results
The other thing thay worries me aboutthe stall is the transmission, stock 4L60e. For now it is good but not sure of its shape
If it blows, wouldn't it also destro the converter?
If it blows, wouldn't it also destro the converter?
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Question about cam and I looked but not sure. I was decided to go for a Comp 212 / 218. But now I saw this one. Comp part # 54-451-11. Specs are .554/.558 208/212 115LSA.
Can't seem to find a definitie answer of how it would compare to the 212/218 low rise.
I realize that I do want to improve 1/4 mile times but mainly have good midrange pick-up (2500 rpm and up)
Can't seem to find a definitie answer of how it would compare to the 212/218 low rise.
I realize that I do want to improve 1/4 mile times but mainly have good midrange pick-up (2500 rpm and up)
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Verdad Gallardo The Comp Cams #54-451-11(208/212 115lsa+4, ) will give better low end and midrange power, and it will hit peak hp 200-300rpm earlier than the Comp Cam #54-412-11 (212/218 114lsa+2), but it'll also be in the power-band 200-300rpm earlier. The 54-451-11 is also going to have a lot better low to midrange power the your LS6 cam, but will hit peak hp 525 to 650 rpm earlier that your LS6 cam. So it'll hit peak hp in the 5500-5700 rpm range.
Myself, I'd go with the 54-451-11 out of those 2 Comp Cam, and over you changing the ICL of you LS6 cam with a adjustable timing gear set. That's of course if you don't mind giving up some top end for power where you obviously need it down in the low to midrange .
BTW the #54-451-11 will still idle as smooth as stock with having-20* overlap, only slightly more than the LS6 cam with -24* overlap, and
Summit Racing has it for $374 Shipped.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-54-451-11
IF, you do go with the 54-451-11 cam and later decide to add a higher stall TC to the mix, then a 2600-2800 Stall TC is plenty!
http://www.circledspecialties.com/p-...converter.aspx
http://www.converter.cc/product_p/st...ls3%202800.htm
http://www.converter.cc/product_p/tr...ls3%202600.htm
Myself, I'd go with the 54-451-11 out of those 2 Comp Cam, and over you changing the ICL of you LS6 cam with a adjustable timing gear set. That's of course if you don't mind giving up some top end for power where you obviously need it down in the low to midrange .
BTW the #54-451-11 will still idle as smooth as stock with having-20* overlap, only slightly more than the LS6 cam with -24* overlap, and
Summit Racing has it for $374 Shipped.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-54-451-11
IF, you do go with the 54-451-11 cam and later decide to add a higher stall TC to the mix, then a 2600-2800 Stall TC is plenty!
http://www.circledspecialties.com/p-...converter.aspx
http://www.converter.cc/product_p/st...ls3%202800.htm
http://www.converter.cc/product_p/tr...ls3%202600.htm
Last edited by 99Bluz28; Jul 28, 2014 at 01:52 AM.
Thank you very much for the detailed explanations. I will probably go with the 208/212 since I need it mainly for daily driving, no racing. Would also be fun maybe later to add some towing equipment.
http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...valve-springs/
Also, update us on your results of any changes you make.
Last edited by 99Bluz28; Jul 28, 2014 at 02:15 PM.
Thanks, will keep you posted for sure but it might take a while until everything is buttoned back up, tuned and tested. Probably a month or so. I have brand new blue Ls6 springs that I installed with the cam. I believe they should be fine, even though maybe not as good as the ones you mentioned. My dilemma is if I shouls go back to stock 7.400 pushrods or use the comp 7.425s that are in there now. I know the right answer is get stronger 7.400 instead of using stock ones.
Thanks for remindind me about the shift points.
Thanks for remindind me about the shift points.
You'll probably be perfectly fine with your comp 7.425" PRs that are in there now, just check the preload to make 100% sure. The cam lobes on that Comp Cam is some what mild for a aftermarket cam, but it's still noticeably more aggressive than the LS6 cam lobes that's why I recommend the PAC1218s, the LS6 blue springs just aren't designed to handle cam lobe ramp rate that are more aggressive than the stock gm cams have. Since your LS6 blue valve springs are fairly new I would just sell them with the LS6 cam.
BTW, the PAC 1218's are a drop-in replacement for the LS6 blue springs, and area excellent value for the price.
BTW, the PAC 1218's are a drop-in replacement for the LS6 blue springs, and area excellent value for the price.
Last edited by 99Bluz28; Jul 28, 2014 at 06:47 PM.
Sorry man hate to bust your bubble, but its better to pay a little more now, than a lot more later because of a valve train failure.
Anyway with the PAC 1218s valve springs and fairly mild Comp Cam lobes your valve springs will probably last a very long time.
Anyway with the PAC 1218s valve springs and fairly mild Comp Cam lobes your valve springs will probably last a very long time.
I know, you are right, I will change them for sure. It's just that in my head I didn't think of that. That's what happens when you don't have all that experience. Anyways, thanks for the advice, reallh appreciate and I will post back tbe results in a while.
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If you can only afford one or the other, stall is the better short term choice. You ll get more out of it then just a cam change. Mainly, because you wont see the full benfits of that cam change with a stock stall. But get both if you can, seperate, its like cheese without crackers or bread without butter etc. lol gl
I would love to get both, the problem is that I am not sure how long the transmission would last and how it's going to blow. From what I understand, usually it takes the converter too. Bread withtout butter is kind of dry but a loaf of bread costs less and fills the stomach for a while
I already bought the cam anyways, so now I have to get springs too and swap them before baby's out! After that, no more time for the car for a while.
I already bought the cam anyways, so now I have to get springs too and swap them before baby's out! After that, no more time for the car for a while.
Got to drive it for about 10-15 miles with the new 208/212 comp camshaft (and new valve springs). It may not be enough yet but there is a nice difference versus the Z06 cam. I will try to see how it does on the 1/4 mile this week end if I have the time to bring it to the track and post the results back.
It seems to have also changed the exhaust note at idle a little?
For everyone who suggested a torque converter, the more I read about it the more I think I need one I understand now it is one of the most underrated mods you can do. I never had one before so I guess it is one of the things that if you never tried you don't know what you are missing. For now I will probably try to find a 6 cyl. Trailblazer one. I know it is not the best but if I can find one for cheap Iwouldn't mind risking it. As I said I don'T want to spend 500 bucks on it and blow the tranny and take out the new TC with it.
Thanks to all
It seems to have also changed the exhaust note at idle a little?
For everyone who suggested a torque converter, the more I read about it the more I think I need one
I understand now it is one of the most underrated mods you can do. I never had one before so I guess it is one of the things that if you never tried you don't know what you are missing. For now I will probably try to find a 6 cyl. Trailblazer one. I know it is not the best but if I can find one for cheap Iwouldn't mind risking it. As I said I don'T want to spend 500 bucks on it and blow the tranny and take out the new TC with it.Thanks to all
Didn't bring it to the track yet, maybe next week but I Just wanted to say that I love that cam. It makes a huge difference in driveability and fun. If I was thinking about swapping a converter in, now I would skip it unless it wasn't for my curiosity to find out the difference it makes. That or a manual transmission...wish I could find a NV4500 for cheap