I posted this on V8S10 earlier today, but I'm trying to get info from as many communities as I can especially with my choice of powertrain and fact checking my research. Thanks in advance guys...

Hey guys, first post here. I've been doing quite a bit of research the past few months and believe I have formulated a build path that will achieve the results I'm hoping for. I was reluctant to post on the forums until my own research was vast enough to provide insight for reasoning, versus just asking what to do and who I should send my money to.

Story of the truck...Skip to the next section if you dont care (I would)
The truck is a red 99' S10 Standard Cab Long Bed with the 4.3 Vortec and a 4L60E. The truck was my Grandfather's and was passed down to me while I was still in college when he passed away. I'm not a sentimental person by any means and would have been perfectly fine with the family selling it, on the other hand they weren't about that idea. I was more than happy to take it though, as the insurance was cheap and provided a reliable daily for when my non reliable turbo'd imports broke. Last year I was driving the S10, because E85 had really done a number on my SRT4's transmission when it began to die at 40 mph. I limped it off the highway. I was pissed, 2 cars in one week. At this time I had graduated and was living in a city of people I didn't know, I had no access to tools or idealistic conditions to repair/diagnose a vehicle. Turns out the truck hadn't been very well maintained, and required a lot of maintenance, so I proceeded to fix the bare minimum just to get it drivable. The next week I sold my car, drove the S10 back to my hometown where someone in the family could at least drive it if needed, and then bought a new Subaru WRX which at the time was a great decision.

Fast forward to now, my fiancee and myself had enough experience under our belt to get jobs closer to home, and she wanted to be closer to family. This is good news for me, because it means I get to have a mildly quick daily once again. The Subaru is an alright daily, unfortunately they're too fragile in my opinion to modify and risk voiding a warranty claim. So, I'm going to build a daily and sell the WRX and what better candidate than the S10?

On to the build...
(This will be Phase 1)

The truck is currently very hard on the eyes, mild surface rust, plenty of peeling clear coat etc but there's only one visual modification I'm including in this phase and that's because I will be switching out the 2WD 117" frame and long bed with a 108" 2WD frame and short bed. I could just chop up the current frame, but I know old chevys love to get mounted on these 117" frames and I'm not going to be one of the people that takes an item this useful out of circulation. I plan on using the same cab to keep it "The same truck" to my family, my research has pointed me in the direction that this will work is that correct?

My next question is about my engine choice... I have decided to go with either a LY2 or a LR4 for these reasons. I drive a combined 60 mile commute every day and would benefit from the high compression and low displacement of the 4.8 as far as post tuned fuel economy. The physical geometry and short stroke of this engine allow it to be stronger than the 5.3 LM7. I also have planned in phase 2 to add a turbo and the low displacement and high compression combo once again will prevent detonation as well as the ability of higher RPMs benefiting the turbo. I also am not going for MAX power on this build or even shooting for numbers, I'm just looking for fast enough on my butt dyno to have a fun daily. (A side note. The reason I will be jumping into straight turbo vs NA power is the possibility to achieve similar fuel economy result while out of boost, yet the power is on-demand. I've also been dieing to test my fab skills to build my own headers,intake, and intercooler piping). What would be recommended as far as the Gen iv LY2 and the Gen iii LR4? I like the DBW in the LY2 and the forum cited "theoretical strength increases", tough to beat the +10 stock hp also.

Finally, below is my budget and the compilation of all the homework I've done plus prices that are up to date in the median range. This is my Phase 1 budget, Phase 2 will be turbo & supporting mods, Phase 3 Will be suspension refinement and aesthetics. If anyone see's pricing that is off or something completely missing please let me know so I can add that into the budget, because I plan on disassembling the truck in the next few weeks to start selling off the parts I will not be using. Then I'm going to attempt to start sourcing parts in an "as needed fashion" and complete the project in about a months worth of time. Thanks for looking guys.

 

A little update on this due to some help from others, I have decided to do away with the idea of a straight chassis swap and stick with the longer wheel base. However, I do plan on bobbing the rear of the bed and trimming the chassis to reduce overhang and shorten the overall vehicle length as much as I can. If I will not be able to shorten this as much as I would like due to the rear spring mount I'll build my own suspension. I am also swaying toward an LR4 vs the LY2, the LR4 is cheaper and although the LY2 would be convenient with the DBW & Cruise Control I'm going to stick with the KISS method. The T56 paired with 4.10's is also my plan as of now.

 

The LR4 and LY2 debate is both more and less complicated than you've made it.

First, the fuel economy difference between the 4.8s and 5.3s is pretty much negligible.
Second, both the LR4 and LY2 can be made to work with drive by wire and drive by cable.
Third, the power difference between the two isn't 10 HP, it will depend on the years/vehicle or origin and can be as much as 40 HP.


Engine management is a major factor here. If you plan on running something like microsquirt, there will be no difference between the engines other than the fact you cannot run DBW at all.

If you plan on using factory ECUs, it is still fairly complicated. The LR4 can be had with both a cable and a wire throttle. Cruise control on the wire setup is just a cruise panel and some wires. Cruise on the cable setup is just a cruise panel and some wires, plus the cruise control module you can grab from any junkyard for $10.

For the LY2, they were only available in drive by wire. For a little extra, you can get a 24x conversion box and run it on the exact same electronics as the LR4. Don't want the conversion box? Toss a 24x reluctor wheel off of any Gen 3 onto the LY2 crank and just run LR4 wiring/PCM. You can even use the LR4 intake manifold, but converting a Gen 4 intake to drive by cable isn't too hard, either (and its much better).

The LY2 is MUCH stronger than the LR4, with better heads and intake to boot.

As far as RPMs go, higher RPM don't benefit a turbo. It cares about air in/air out. Its not belt driven and has zero idea how fast your engine is turning.

 

Hey, Looks like a decent plan. Check out my build on the '03 S10 for ideas (can't log into S10forum to update there???).

What ever the budget, double it.

Oil Pan: Use the LH8 pan. Will fit the chassis. This said, I did still have to notch the crossmember a little bit (about an inch, was 3/4" when fully welded up). Can get new at Summit for $150-160

'98-99 Camaro manifolds. Good choice, the driver side has to be trimmed at the flange to clear the frame at the upper a-arm. Not a big deal to do. Right now I'm getting ready to build the Y-pipe to connect to the S10 exhaust.

Fuel Delivery: I went round and round on this one. The 4.3 has hard lines to a compression fitting at the bellhouse. I was able to cut & grove the engine side and run high pressure fuel injection lines/clamps. Cost was $25 in parts plus some gasket shellac (Permatex Indian head, the gooey brown stuff). Push the lines down about 2" or so and clamp. GM replacement quick disconnects at the truck manifold. This left about 10+ inches of rubber as the exposed section of the line at the manifold. No leaks.

Trans: The T56 is way expensive. Plus lots of additional needed parts to switch from auto to manual. (done this before) Better Idea is a TH700r4 or the 4L60e that is in there now. But, you will need a 4L65e (V8) bellhouse to replace the 4L60 V6 unit that is on there now. Converter, I used a LS1 unit from a 2000 Z/28 (used from a board member). This is the correct one for the dished flex plate. If you use the V6 converter, the flex plate holes need to be elongated. I was concerned with a vibration and went the way I did so as not to have that issue. If you need the adapter for the V6 converter (snout) I have a brand new one ($25) that I can part with.

PCM/harness/tune: a bit light on the cost. I went with a guy in SC, Greg, who built the harness and did the tune for $650. Been a big help on the gremlins that go along with the V8 swap. I got my PCM from a board member for $40 (GM 0411, drive by cable). The cable throttle uses the existing 4.3 throttle & cruise cables and bracket.

A/C - not mentioned, this is a whole new issue on the swap. Easy way: high mount brackets, hard way - low mount from the truck, + compressor & lines, ect.

Cooling - read my latest post on that one. Can use the stock 4.3 Radiator, but it will eat up some space.

Intake & filter - Not much room (see my latest posts on page 5 of the build) Everything wants to use the same space.

Radiator hose - Lower is trim to fit, just like most swaps. Upper is a PITA, I have the Gates upper for a Dodge Ram P/U, comes close. Will add in a small section of hard line (1.5" exhaust tube along the radiator) then figure out the connections.

Have you found a $500 dollar engine? I know that they can be found in this price range. My 5.3 was $100 from a buddy (long block w/intake). It is a '99 WBZ (?) from a Silverado, GEN III. That means the smallest cam that was offered and 21# injectors. I too am going for MPG (and fun), but swapped the cam for a LS1 (2002 Vette) and 28# injectors. So in a 3500 lb truck with 3.42 gears v. a 5500 lb Silverado with 4.10's (20-21 mpg) I'm expecting to see about 25 MPG. Due to the weight and gearing difference.

Send a PM if you want.

Jim

 

The LH8 oil pan hangs down pretty low. If you're comfortable with boxing your frame, an F-body pan doesn't hang below the crossover on the frame.

Camaro manifolds won't work well for a turbo setup if you plan to face them forward. Truck manifolds work much better but you'll need to notch the one on the driver's side for the steering shaft.

4L60e with a turbo is just a bad idea too. It'll grenade in a hurry. T56 isn't so bad other than the fact you'll be dropping 2 grand on a trans and parts for the conversion. Some of the turbo clutches are far too heavy on the foot for my taste as well.

 

Thanks for the info Joe, I was aware of the varying power outputs and there relations the other variables. I was unaware of the ability to swap the DBW onto the LR4 series, so I will have to research that and decide on the best path. As far as my engine management goes, I am planning on using stock ECU's so I will also consider the information you have listed. Here's my main question and the info I couldn't find, what makes the LY2 so much stronger? On the subject of higher RPMs, my thought was the wider band would give me a broader selection of turbos that will get me that "accelerating" vs "ACCELERATING!" that I want. Thanks again for the info!

 

Thanks Jim, I will have to take a look at your thread.

 

Camaro manifolds are just for Phase 1 and getting the truck reliably running and selling my WRX. Once I go turbo, I will fabricate my own headers, intake, and intercooler piping.

The price on the T56 does suck, but in the long run I think it will pay for itself. I also don't see the resell value on them catastrophically dropping any time soon.

 

I can't remember if it was 04, but eventually everything but the vans went DBW (only a couple of exceptions). That includes the LR4. They were available in the trucks with DBW after 04.

The LY2 is stronger for a number of reasons, the main reason being the rods/pistons are Gen 4 and are probably 50% stronger than the Gen 3 internals that are most common in the LR4. Also, Gen 4 blocks are true siamese bores. Gen 3 blocks have coolant passages between the cylinders.

Then you factor in that the LY2 has the same cylinders heads that originally came on the C5 Z06 (and later the LS2), plus the best factory cathedral port intake available. It is just a far better engine than the LR4 in factory form. Its the only gen 4 truck engine available without either DoD/VVT as well.

 

I had no idea about the Gen IV internals or the bore. I feel like I should have found that info quite easily, but read numerous articles and don't remember any of that being mentioned so thank you for clarifying. The lacking of the DoD and VVT is actually the reason I started researching the 4.8 in the first place, and I'm glad I did. Thanks Joe, Ill start looking on Car-Part, Ebay, and Craigslist for the right deal on an LY2.