Reverse direction of 4T60/65E
06-12-2020, 08:46 PM
#1
Staging Lane
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Reverse direction of 4T60/65E No sure if this is the correct section so I apologize if I need to post under the transmission sections. But here it goes...
I am planning a project build were I am wanting to take an LS4 and 4T60/65E I have obtained from a Monte Carlo SS and mount it in the rear of a project I'm wanting to build. Issue I am seeing it that I want to turn the engine and transaxle 180° so the engine would me more towards the rear for maintenance access. When doing this the forward drive gears would then propel the vehicle backwards...
So my question is how can I reverse the output rotation of the drive axles??
I was thinking of a reversing planetary 1:1 gearbox right out the output shafts the custom axles from there to the hubs, therefore achieving reverse rotation to the wheels to propel the vehicle forward in the forward drive gears.
I'm I headed in the right direction with this theory? If so where can I find such gearboxes? Or is there a much easier or more simple way to achieve what I'm trying to accomplish here??
Any help is greatly appreciated in advance!
I am planning a project build were I am wanting to take an LS4 and 4T60/65E I have obtained from a Monte Carlo SS and mount it in the rear of a project I'm wanting to build. Issue I am seeing it that I want to turn the engine and transaxle 180° so the engine would me more towards the rear for maintenance access. When doing this the forward drive gears would then propel the vehicle backwards...
So my question is how can I reverse the output rotation of the drive axles??
I was thinking of a reversing planetary 1:1 gearbox right out the output shafts the custom axles from there to the hubs, therefore achieving reverse rotation to the wheels to propel the vehicle forward in the forward drive gears.
I'm I headed in the right direction with this theory? If so where can I find such gearboxes? Or is there a much easier or more simple way to achieve what I'm trying to accomplish here??
Any help is greatly appreciated in advance!
06-12-2020, 08:57 PM
#2
TECH Addict
Basically you cant, the trans rotates the same direction as the crankshaft all the way through.
Only way to reverse rotation is a gear box, or if the differential section allows it you flip the
third member right to left and switch to reverse rotation ring and pinion so the gears will be
strong enough turning the direction you want to go. Not sure if your transmission has a
ring and pinion or a planetary differential..
This is a common problem where guys want to flip their solid axles over to get more
ground clearance on 4x4's.. If you flip the axle you flip the wheel rotation direction,
but if you don't use reverse rotation ring and pinion it breaks very easy.
Dune buggys do it to make the engine mid engine in stead of rear engine by
flipping the internal differential carrier so the ring is on the opposite side of the pinion.
Again they break easy of you don't get reverse cut gears.
Just gave these examples to give you more google search ammunition to look for solutions. Good luck!
Only way to reverse rotation is a gear box, or if the differential section allows it you flip the
third member right to left and switch to reverse rotation ring and pinion so the gears will be
strong enough turning the direction you want to go. Not sure if your transmission has a
ring and pinion or a planetary differential..
This is a common problem where guys want to flip their solid axles over to get more
ground clearance on 4x4's.. If you flip the axle you flip the wheel rotation direction,
but if you don't use reverse rotation ring and pinion it breaks very easy.
Dune buggys do it to make the engine mid engine in stead of rear engine by
flipping the internal differential carrier so the ring is on the opposite side of the pinion.
Again they break easy of you don't get reverse cut gears.
Just gave these examples to give you more google search ammunition to look for solutions. Good luck!
06-12-2020, 09:54 PM
#3
Staging Lane
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Watson, LA
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Basically you cant, the trans rotates the same direction as the crankshaft all the way through.
Only way to reverse rotation is a gear box, or if the differential section allows it you flip the
third member right to left and switch to reverse rotation ring and pinion so the gears will be
strong enough turning the direction you want to go. Not sure if your transmission has a
ring and pinion or a planetary differential..
This is a common problem where guys want to flip their solid axles over to get more
ground clearance on 4x4's.. If you flip the axle you flip the wheel rotation direction,
but if you don't use reverse rotation ring and pinion it breaks very easy.
Dune buggys do it to make the engine mid engine in stead of rear engine by
flipping the internal differential carrier so the ring is on the opposite side of the pinion.
Again they break easy of you don't get reverse cut gears.
Just gave these examples to give you more google search ammunition to look for solutions. Good luck!
Only way to reverse rotation is a gear box, or if the differential section allows it you flip the
third member right to left and switch to reverse rotation ring and pinion so the gears will be
strong enough turning the direction you want to go. Not sure if your transmission has a
ring and pinion or a planetary differential..
This is a common problem where guys want to flip their solid axles over to get more
ground clearance on 4x4's.. If you flip the axle you flip the wheel rotation direction,
but if you don't use reverse rotation ring and pinion it breaks very easy.
Dune buggys do it to make the engine mid engine in stead of rear engine by
flipping the internal differential carrier so the ring is on the opposite side of the pinion.
Again they break easy of you don't get reverse cut gears.
Just gave these examples to give you more google search ammunition to look for solutions. Good luck!
06-12-2020, 09:55 PM
#4
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Watson, LA
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
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Basically you cant, the trans rotates the same direction as the crankshaft all the way through.
Only way to reverse rotation is a gear box, or if the differential section allows it you flip the
third member right to left and switch to reverse rotation ring and pinion so the gears will be
strong enough turning the direction you want to go. Not sure if your transmission has a
ring and pinion or a planetary differential..
This is a common problem where guys want to flip their solid axles over to get more
ground clearance on 4x4's.. If you flip the axle you flip the wheel rotation direction,
but if you don't use reverse rotation ring and pinion it breaks very easy.
Dune buggys do it to make the engine mid engine in stead of rear engine by
flipping the internal differential carrier so the ring is on the opposite side of the pinion.
Again they break easy of you don't get reverse cut gears.
Just gave these examples to give you more google search ammunition to look for solutions. Good luck!
Only way to reverse rotation is a gear box, or if the differential section allows it you flip the
third member right to left and switch to reverse rotation ring and pinion so the gears will be
strong enough turning the direction you want to go. Not sure if your transmission has a
ring and pinion or a planetary differential..
This is a common problem where guys want to flip their solid axles over to get more
ground clearance on 4x4's.. If you flip the axle you flip the wheel rotation direction,
but if you don't use reverse rotation ring and pinion it breaks very easy.
Dune buggys do it to make the engine mid engine in stead of rear engine by
flipping the internal differential carrier so the ring is on the opposite side of the pinion.
Again they break easy of you don't get reverse cut gears.
Just gave these examples to give you more google search ammunition to look for solutions. Good luck!
06-12-2020, 11:49 PM
#5
TECH Senior Member
There is no good way to do what you are asking. You have 2 axle shafts coming out to the wheels going the same rotation as the engine.
To try to put a gearbox on each output shaft would be too cumbersome and throw the geometry off for everything else.
There isn't that much offset between the crank centerline and axle centerlines that will reduce service access that much. You are talking about a huge design and engineering job just to gain some service access. Besides, your weight distribution is way better with the engine in front of the axle centerline
To try to put a gearbox on each output shaft would be too cumbersome and throw the geometry off for everything else.
There isn't that much offset between the crank centerline and axle centerlines that will reduce service access that much. You are talking about a huge design and engineering job just to gain some service access. Besides, your weight distribution is way better with the engine in front of the axle centerline
06-13-2020, 01:16 AM
#6
TECH Addict
Agree with all of that except for the fact I wont to have a differential or ring and pinion for that fact. The T460/65E is a transaxle type transmission. The LS4 and trans are mounted side to side in the vehicle. The crankshaft is parallel with the drive axles. The transaxle outputs are on both sides of the transaxle. This is the set out of a FWD *** the Monte Carlo SS and others with the LS4s were front wheel drive applications.
06-13-2020, 01:10 PM
#7
There are quite a few LS4s mounted transversely in the rear (mid engine) and some even have 6 speed manuals (like mine!). Most are in Fieros, but there are some in other applications as well. Depending on what you are installing it into as how it mounts to the chassis, there are ways to improve the front access.Access from the bottom can be quite good if you don't block access by mounting stuff in the way. In the Fieros everything mounts to a cradle (engine, transmission, lower suspension links, etc), the cradle mounts to the chassis with 4 bolts, and the front 2 are horizontal. So if you set everything up properly, you can loosen the front bolts, remove the rear bolts and rotate the cradle down in the rear to have better access to the front of the engine. This process takes 5 minutes to rotate the engine down.
I have see one person reverse the rotation of the interals on a TH425 (longitudinal FWD used in 4500+ lb 60's, 70's and 80s toranados, caddys, and motor homes). He removed the drive chain chain that connected the input shaft from the torque converter to the input shaft of the transmission (basically a TH400 inside, that rotated backwards) and replaced it with a set of gears to change the rotation between the torque converter and the transmission. This worked for him since he could replace the transmission internals which were designed to rotate the opposite way. I don't think this is possible with the 4T65E-HD as the valve body mounts behind the chain and there are no off the shelf parts designed for the proper rotation.
I have see one person reverse the rotation of the interals on a TH425 (longitudinal FWD used in 4500+ lb 60's, 70's and 80s toranados, caddys, and motor homes). He removed the drive chain chain that connected the input shaft from the torque converter to the input shaft of the transmission (basically a TH400 inside, that rotated backwards) and replaced it with a set of gears to change the rotation between the torque converter and the transmission. This worked for him since he could replace the transmission internals which were designed to rotate the opposite way. I don't think this is possible with the 4T65E-HD as the valve body mounts behind the chain and there are no off the shelf parts designed for the proper rotation.