Any further P0300, look at mode 6 data for individual cylinder misfire data. You'll likely see a couple counts but not enough to trigger cyl misfire and CEL on. Did you find anything with the P0606?

 

Thanks for the interest, I appreciate it. So far no new P0606 errors, and I did nothing other than replace the crank sensor.

So, Given that all had cleared, and that the car ran (and still is) so good, I thought that the new crank position sensor resolved my issues. But alas, arghhhghghg! The P0300 came back just as I pulled in my garage after a 60 mile round trip.

An interesting thing I noticed re: the crank sensor: ever since I got the car first running (this was a brand new crate LS3/430), the tach showed a bit more variation that I expected, while idling. It would bounce around 480 and 600. I didn't give it much thought. With the new crank sensor, at idle, it stays right on 520 most of the time. That gave me a bit more satisfaction that the issue was resolved.

I just went out to get the tests instructed by @tblentrprz, and I noticed that the tach in my car was showing RPMs about 100 less than this sensor reported.

The report suggested is below, which does show some errors. I coloreds the ones that don't show PASS in red text. I appreciate guidance on it.

Mode $06 report generated by Torque for Android
================================================

Vehicle VIN: Not present
Vehicle Manufacturer: Unknown
Vehicle Calibration ID: Not present

Test report:
------------------
MID:$01 TID:$05
Rich to Lean sensor switch time(calculated) - O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 165ms Min: 0ms
Test result value: 27ms
PASS
----
MID:$01 TID:$06
Lean to Rich sensor switch time(calculated) - O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 120ms Min: 0ms
Test result value: 16ms
PASS
----
MID:$01 TID:$80
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 65,535Changes Min: 41Changes
Test result value: 154Changes
PASS
----
MID:$01 TID:$81
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 65,535Changes Min: 41Changes
Test result value: 156Changes
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$8a
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 590Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 591Count
FAIL
----
MID:$02 TID:$8b
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$02 TID:$8c
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$02 TID:$91
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$02 TID:$92
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$02 TID:$93
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$02 TID:$94
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$05 TID:$05
Rich to Lean sensor switch time(calculated) - O2 Bank 2 Sensor 1
Max: 165ms Min: 0ms
Test result value: 27ms
PASS
----
MID:$05 TID:$06
Lean to Rich sensor switch time(calculated) - O2 Bank 2 Sensor 1
Max: 120ms Min: 0ms
Test result value: 16ms
PASS
----
MID:$05 TID:$80
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 1
Max: 65,535Changes Min: 41Changes
Test result value: 151Changes
PASS
----
MID:$05 TID:$81
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 1
Max: 65,535Changes Min: 41Changes
Test result value: 153Changes
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$8a
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 590Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 591Count
FAIL
----
MID:$06 TID:$8b
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$06 TID:$8c
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$06 TID:$91
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$06 TID:$92
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$06 TID:$93
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$06 TID:$94
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$21 TID:$a0
- Catalyst Monitor Bank 1
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$22 TID:$a0
- Catalyst Monitor Bank 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3a TID:$c0
- EVAP Monitor (cap off)
Max: 14L Min: 0L
Test result value: 14.006L
FAIL
----
MID:$3a TID:$c1
- EVAP Monitor (cap off)
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3c TID:$c8
- EVAP Monitor (0.040")
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3c TID:$c9
- EVAP Monitor (0.040")
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3c TID:$ca
- EVAP Monitor (0.040")
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3c TID:$cb
- EVAP Monitor (0.040")
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3d TID:$c4
- EVAP Monitor (0.020")
Max: 6,553.5S Min: 49.8S
Test result value: 49.9S
PASS
----
MID:$3d TID:$c5
- EVAP Monitor (0.020")
Max: 2,500Pa Min: -8,000Pa
Test result value: 612.25Pa
PASS
----
MID:$3d TID:$c6
- EVAP Monitor (0.020")
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3d TID:$c7
- EVAP Monitor (0.020")
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$41 TID:$d2
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 1 - Sensor 1
Max: 8Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$41 TID:$d3
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 1 - Sensor 1
Max: 2.481 Min: -4.211
Test result value: -0.755
PASS
----
MID:$42 TID:$d2
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 1 - Sensor 2
Max: 8Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 9Count
FAIL
----
MID:$42 TID:$d3
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 1 - Sensor 2
Max: 2.481 Min: -4.199
Test result value: 6.632
FAIL
----
MID:$45 TID:$d2
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 2 - Sensor 1
Max: 8Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$45 TID:$d3
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 2 - Sensor 1
Max: 2.481 Min: -4.211
Test result value: -0.271
PASS
----
MID:$46 TID:$d2
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 2 - Sensor 2
Max: 8Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 9Count
FAIL
----
MID:$46 TID:$d3
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 2 - Sensor 2
Max: 2.481 Min: -4.199
Test result value: 6.632
FAIL
----


End of report.

 

Again as I stated above, failed primary O2 sensors can set a P0300. Looks like you have some failing ones.

 

I see I have irritated you. So sorry, I don't mean to be a pest. But, this car, being a restomod, does not have 2 O2 sensors on each side, just 1 on each side. So I was/am concerned that the errors referred to as O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2 were there because there were no bank 1 sensor 2 that even exists, hence, the error would be a non-error, due to no sensor in the first place.

So, sorry to ask again, but is that not the case?

 

The primary O2 sensors ARE the ones you are using. Have you deleted the secondary O2's in the tune? It WILL show as an error if not the case.

 

Thanks. The reason I was confused about it is that the reference Bank 1 Sensor 2. Seems to me it should be Bank 1 Sensor 1, and Bank Sensor . I've been presuming that each bank is right side of engine, left side of engine.

I didn't do the programming myself. I purchased the units and wiring from a sponsor here. PSI. I will reach out to him and ask about that.

 

I talked to PSI, and the second sensors are deleted in the software. I will order two new O2 Sensors and replace them.

 

@Nick_R_23 I think I should try the crank position learn procedure. I don't have a scan tool with that function. I'll look for a shop to do that. Then if the code remains, I will replace both O2 sensors.I guess it could be either/or causing it.

 

Whoops, sorry that came off sounding irritated, I thought you had simply missed the post. I would start off with replacing both O2 sensors first. Your diag sheet shows that there are some issues with them, so they definitely need replacing either way. It’s the more common cause of a P0300.

 

Thanks! When reading vs. hearing, sometimes words can be misinterpreted. No worries.

I'll just ordered the O2 sensors. Your post prompted me to do a bit of searching, and some things that I read indicated replacement of the sensor should definitely be followed by a relearn procedure. Searching on that procedure turned up multiple methods. Didn't look like something I would be comfortable doing on my own, especially with no scanner that would provide that info. I'll probably search out a shop to do it.

 

There are no upstream O2 sensor errors. The only way to know how well they are working is to graph or scope O2 sensor outputs. I thought Torque had a graph function? That said, I doubt you have an O2 sensor issue. If they are causing random misfire you'll likely see lean conditions and STFT adding fuel to compensate. Not sure why mode 6 is not showing the MID:$53 individual cylinder misfire counts.

Get the crank relearn done and see if you can capture some data when the failure occurs.

 

Seems I'm not getting the updates from thread posts. I just came back in to update the thread and find your comment.

So, I do already have O2 sensors ordered. I do find it interesting that the errors I do get that mention the O2 sensors is what looks like a very mild, barely out of spec, error. For example.That is off by 1 unit...max 590, results 591.

That being said I do have some on order. I figured I'd put them in if the crank sensor change left me with errors. Given your feedback and others, I'm thinking maybe I should get the crank shaft relearn first.

So, I did put the injector cleaner in the gas tank, with gas amount at 35% of the tank. I cleared the P0300 code. I drove it 50 miles with varying traffic: stop go, slow drive, to freeway 70 mph. No code. Next day I drove it around 40 miles, no code. Yesterday I was taking it for a drive, and within 3 miles the P0300 came up again. <sigh> </sigh>

So It's sounding like the crank relearn is important. With the tach being so smooth compared to even when the engine was brand new (about 5000 miles earlier), that the relearn may not be needed. Right now at idle, the tach remains on 520, almost exclusively.

So, I'll try the relearn, then if still no go, I'll put in the sensors.

Will keep the thread posted.

 

I checked around locally, and 1 fellow indicated he would have to purchase a tune from HPTuners. The fella that did my transmission repair says he can do it with his scanner, and it won't take but a minute or two.

Not sure what to think about the varying input there, but I'm taking it to the transmission guy.

 

FYI - Sensor 2 is rear, post cat

 

That is what I was suspecting. I of course do not have it. The inexpensive (cheap) scanner shows errors on it, such as some measurement max is 590, and it shows 591. Crazy.

I took it up to get the crankshaft learn performed. Turns out that is not needed in an engine swap. Doesn't even show up in the scanner as a possibility. I verified with PSI.

I have received 2 OS2 sensors that I plan to put on today. So if it still misses, I'm not sure of the next step. BTW, while at the shop to get the crankshaft learn performed, he saw random misses. All lwere on plug 3 and 7. Makes me wonder if it is just the left bank. He wasn't hooked on long enough to give it a chance for further misses.

BTW...the misses are not felt. If no engine code, I'd not know it is happening.

 

Not sure why you'd replace O2 sensors. You can swap parts or test the problem areas. Do you have scan tool to see misfires? Not sure why your mode 6 didn't show cyl misfire PIDs. Without the ability/tooling to test, it will be a long frustrating process to stumble upon the root cause of the misfires. Sounds like the shop/tech that looked at it may your best approach to resolve it. Just a thought.

 

​​​​​​I understand what you are saying. My response below will answer some of your thoughts.

I'm changing the O2 sensors due to suggestions on this very threadO; error codes that consistently come up on 02 sensorsa; as well I found multiple articles on the possibility of O2 being a common cause of P0300 errors.

The shop I had it at did check for codes and only found P0300 codes.

​​​​​​​Early in this process I did get a P0303 code. I swapped that plug with plug 5. Then a p305 code came up, so I changed plugs and wires.

Unfortunately I do not have a scan tool that reports specific cylinder errors. When the shop that did the scan, he safe misfires on cylinder 5 and cylinder 7. That localized it to the left back. The problem with that is that he did not run the scan for a prolonged time, so I consider it wire possible that other cylinders involved. I have no idea if 1O2 sensor was bad if that would localize errors to that side of the engine out not.

​​​​​​​I've considered taking to another shop to scan, but that may cost as much as me just buying a more gesture rich scanner. But then I may not have the expertise to interpret the results, so taking to a shop may pay off. But on the other hand I've been getting only P0300 errors other than the instance covered earlier in this thread, which was resolved with a new crank sensor. So I don't see the value in paying s shop to tell me I have a P0300 code. Although he could scan longer and verify (possibly) if the problem is just on 1 bank. If that in fact is verified, I'm not sure what that would point me at to fix.

 

About three months ago, I was in the same P0300 boat as you - random misfires everywhere, except cyl 2. In the end, it was the least likely thing that caused it all . . . . bad PCM. I pulled a P01 PCM off of my stack of junkyard, self tuned (for zero cost) PCM's using Tuner Pro RT / PCM Hammer and swapped it in. Problem solved.

That bad PCM promptly went into the trash and now several hundred miles later, no CEL and no more random misfires.

Rick

 

My suggestion to pay shop - is to diagnose root cause, not scan for codes. Scan computer for codes is typically free. The last shop identified cylinder 5 and 7 misfires. Question for shop tech - what's causing those? Hopefully no more than an hour to isolate root cause and repair. Just some thoughts. Let us know how the new Delco O2s work out.

 

Turns out my scanner does in fact tell which cylinders are misfiring.

I thought it was fixed. I changed out the O2 sensors. .

When I changed the crank sensor, it made a big difference; quick easy start, no engine codes until about 50 miles on the new sensor. When the P0300 came up it still started and ran great.

So after that code I did get some failed test results on Sensor 1 (ignoring all sensor 2 codes) so I changed the O2 sensors yesterday. Drove it 50 miles in varying traffick conditions. No codes, ran great.

So this morning when I started it, it started like it did when the crank sensor was bad: slow to start, very rough idle on start. P0300 came on again. Scan tests show all cylinders misfiring.

I'm thinking I'll hear that coils should be changed. But all of them failing? Only 6,500 miles on engine.

Early in this thread @tblentrprz indicated the P0606 code indicates a bad PCM. The P0335 was so obviously a problem I figured I should change the crank sensor first. Even though I had that code only once, maybe a replacement PCM is in the cards.
​​​​


Mode $06 report generated by Torque for Android
================================================

Vehicle VIN: Not present
Vehicle Manufacturer: Unknown
Vehicle Calibration ID: Not present

Test report:
------------------
MID:$01 TID:$05
Rich to Lean sensor switch time(calculated) - O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 165ms Min: 0ms
Test result value: 30ms
PASS
----
MID:$01 TID:$06
Lean to Rich sensor switch time(calculated) - O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 120ms Min: 0ms
Test result value: 22ms
PASS
----
MID:$01 TID:$80
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 65,535Changes Min: 34Changes
Test result value: 90Changes
PASS
----
MID:$01 TID:$81
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 65,535Changes Min: 34Changes
Test result value: 91Changes
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$8a
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 590Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 591Count
FAIL
----
MID:$02 TID:$8b
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$02 TID:$8c
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$02 TID:$91
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$02 TID:$92
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$02 TID:$93
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$02 TID:$94
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$05 TID:$05
Rich to Lean sensor switch time(calculated) - O2 Bank 2 Sensor 1
Max: 165ms Min: 0ms
Test result value: 31ms
PASS
----
MID:$05 TID:$06
Lean to Rich sensor switch time(calculated) - O2 Bank 2 Sensor 1
Max: 120ms Min: 0ms
Test result value: 20ms
PASS
----
MID:$05 TID:$80
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 1
Max: 65,535Changes Min: 34Changes
Test result value: 89Changes
PASS
----
MID:$05 TID:$81
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 1
Max: 65,535Changes Min: 34Changes
Test result value: 88Changes
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$8a
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 590Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 591Count
FAIL
----
MID:$06 TID:$8b
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$06 TID:$8c
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$06 TID:$91
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$06 TID:$92
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$06 TID:$93
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$06 TID:$94
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$21 TID:$a0
- Catalyst Monitor Bank 1
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$22 TID:$a0
- Catalyst Monitor Bank 2
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3a TID:$c0
- EVAP Monitor (cap off)
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3a TID:$c1
- EVAP Monitor (cap off)
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3c TID:$c8
- EVAP Monitor (0.040")
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3c TID:$c9
- EVAP Monitor (0.040")
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3c TID:$ca
- EVAP Monitor (0.040")
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3c TID:$cb
- EVAP Monitor (0.040")
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3d TID:$c4
- EVAP Monitor (0.020")
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3d TID:$c5
- EVAP Monitor (0.020")
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3d TID:$c6
- EVAP Monitor (0.020")
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3d TID:$c7
- EVAP Monitor (0.020")
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$41 TID:$d2
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 1 - Sensor 1
Max: 8Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$41 TID:$d3
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 1 - Sensor 1
Max: 2.481 Min: -4.211
Test result value: -0.181
PASS
----
MID:$42 TID:$d2
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 1 - Sensor 2
Max: 8Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 9Count
FAIL
----
MID:$42 TID:$d3
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 1 - Sensor 2
Max: 2.481 Min: -4.199
Test result value: 6.632
FAIL
----
MID:$45 TID:$d2
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 2 - Sensor 1
Max: 8Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$45 TID:$d3
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 2 - Sensor 1
Max: 2.481 Min: -4.211
Test result value: -0.035
PASS
----
MID:$46 TID:$d2
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 2 - Sensor 2
Max: 8Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 9Count
FAIL
----
MID:$46 TID:$d3
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 2 - Sensor 2
Max: 2.481 Min: -4.199
Test result value: 6.632
FAIL
----
MID:$a2 TID:$0b
EWMA Misfire counts (average) for last 10 drive cycles - Misfire Cylinder 1 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 27Count
PASS
----
MID:$a2 TID:$0c
Misfire counts for last/current driving cycles(calculated) - Misfire Cylinder 1 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 110Count
PASS
----
MID:$a3 TID:$0b
EWMA Misfire counts (average) for last 10 drive cycles - Misfire Cylinder 2 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 3Count
PASS
----
MID:$a3 TID:$0c
Misfire counts for last/current driving cycles(calculated) - Misfire Cylinder 2 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 11Count
PASS
----
MID:$a4 TID:$0b
EWMA Misfire counts (average) for last 10 drive cycles - Misfire Cylinder 3 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 14Count
PASS
----
MID:$a4 TID:$0c
Misfire counts for last/current driving cycles(calculated) - Misfire Cylinder 3 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 71Count
PASS
----
MID:$a5 TID:$0b
EWMA Misfire counts (average) for last 10 drive cycles - Misfire Cylinder 4 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 1Count
PASS
----
MID:$a5 TID:$0c
Misfire counts for last/current driving cycles(calculated) - Misfire Cylinder 4 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 1Count
PASS
----
MID:$a6 TID:$0b
EWMA Misfire counts (average) for last 10 drive cycles - Misfire Cylinder 5 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 12Count
PASS
----
MID:$a6 TID:$0c
Misfire counts for last/current driving cycles(calculated) - Misfire Cylinder 5 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 50Count
PASS
----
MID:$a7 TID:$0b
EWMA Misfire counts (average) for last 10 drive cycles - Misfire Cylinder 6 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 5Count
PASS
----
MID:$a7 TID:$0c
Misfire counts for last/current driving cycles(calculated) - Misfire Cylinder 6 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 10Count
PASS
----
MID:$a8 TID:$0b
EWMA Misfire counts (average) for last 10 drive cycles - Misfire Cylinder 7 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 19Count
PASS
----
MID:$a8 TID:$0c
Misfire counts for last/current driving cycles(calculated) - Misfire Cylinder 7 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 31Count
PASS
----
MID:$a9 TID:$0b
EWMA Misfire counts (average) for last 10 drive cycles - Misfire Cylinder 8 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 2Count
PASS
----
MID:$a9 TID:$0c
Misfire counts for last/current driving cycles(calculated) - Misfire Cylinder 8 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 35Count
PASS
----


End of report.





Roger