LS1 Hybrid Magna

I agree with you!
The 50Z50m Camaro was a hit using the GM C5 Suspension front and rear!
There is and always will be a coolness Factor to such cars using GM stuff!
But its cool to know that there is a fast option of computer and harness that plugs and plays and works if some guys in our club want things going fast or need the GM coolness Factor!


The GM service in the Old World is more than poor!
They dont know **** about GM cars and rather play with the Sister Brand Opel
evenso they call themself GM Dealerpoint.
At times we had more books,special tools and parts in our club than the local GM dealer overhere.I worked for GM Europe and this is a lame azz Org of a big US Company called GM USA!

I thought that i could use any 98 CPU with that harness, that would have been cool cause i think i got a 98CPU unit!
Knowing that i need a special CPU and Harness it makes more sense to me to send the harness/CPU i got to speartech and get it reworked and tuned for far less!
GM always did nice stuff like the 3rd gen Fbody Engine Upgrade with emissions using the Ho ZZ1 engines and offering a whole systhem to the consumer!
Again GM could offer such a CLEAN AIR MOTOR OPTION to 2 gen and 3 gen Fbody owners and by doing so blow the doors of the emission ***** and play a leader in offering a kit to customers who would love to step up and say if GM is offering it ..."I will do the swap!"

I was waiting for the first to come up and post nah too expensive hahahah and didn´t had to wait long!
But remember lots of car owners rather deal with the big 3 factory partsdealers than going to a custom shop!
Bad Posts about the painless harness in this forum are wood in the fire for those people!

AJMurray

Since we're the subject I thought I'd take a moment to clear some things up. The LS1 harness we currently have was designed off of the 1998 Camaro computer. Someone said Painless needs to get up to date and that is correct. We are in the process now of redesigning the harness for later model ECMs and should have that on the market in a few months.

As far as the PERFECT System is concerned, there appears to be some confusion, for which we will take the blame for not communcating properly. What makes the PERFECT ECM unique and, we believe, attractive even at $1,300 retail is that it is programmable. Very shortly - by mid-summer at the latest - we will have software available so that if you change the throttle body, the camshaft, injectors, etc you can reprogram the ECM to work with these changes. You will access to fuel, air and spark and can map every 100 rpm.

Further, by the end of the year, we will have preprogrammed packages available which will include a cam, throttle body and other items with guaranteed horespower ratings.

Please don't judge this program at its infancy. We are into fuel injection for the long haul. We only shipped the first systems two months ago (for tuned port). The LS1 programming is being finalized now and we hope to be shipping by May. It seems premature to pass judgement on it before the first one is even made.

I would encourage anyone at this forum to contact us with any specific recommendations or needs. We are not designing this product to make ourselves happy; we want you, the user, to be happy with it and now is the time if you have any input. We believe we will have the best LS1 engine management system available anywhere. At least that is our goal and if you've ever wanted to influence a manufacturer to develop a product the way you want it this is perfect timing.

Seriously. This product is for you. Tell us what you want.



Adrian Murray
President, Painless Performance Products
Fort Worth, TX
817-244-6212 ex1019
amurray@painlessperformance.com

LS1 Hybrid Magna

Dear Mr. Murray!

Thank you for stepping in!
Its rare that CEO´s in the Aftermarket Bizz, take some time and join the
Customer, Wrencher and Car Nut on a "One TO One" Hardtalk!

With so many rumours about the Painless Harness and so few infos about your products you LS1 Tech board members get careful when shopping
stuff for the LS1 Swap!

I am Happy to hear that new LS1 Painless Products are out soon !
The development takes time and money , but you will understand that the customer isnt spending 1300$ not being sure if this is a product that will
keep its value for some time and works up to the task of a trouble free
ECU/ Harness install!
In the computer Bizz and other related products, the value for a product (for example software) is a fast dropping factor (price drop HP Tuners) but still the product should work and install proper.....too many company use the costumer as a TESTDRIVER which ads to frustration.

Again thanks for stepping into the "Lion cage" ..LOL..and giving us a little inside
few!

Mario

AJMurray

Thank you, Mario. Tell you what: we'll keep everyone here informed as the product develops and I'm serious about soliciting input. Several years ago we developed a product which everyone was in love with and we nearly broke our arms patting ourselves on the back admiring our own cleverness. It won awards, was featured in magazines and TV shows and you know what? It never sold. And the reason it never sold was because we built something that appealed to us but not to our customer. That's a mistake you should only make once.

As news develops we'll post it here. We look forward to your feedback

Adrian Murray

LS1powered57chevyP/U

You have a Private message sir. Thank you,

AJMurray

I've posted an update on our blog, which you can access here:

http://painlesswiring.squarespace.co...ct-lineup.html

We are very close to having the programming software available so if any of you have specifics you would like to see included, now's the time.

Adrian Murray
President, Painless Performance Products

MrDude_1

iTrader: (4)

out of curiosity, what advantage does the PERFECT ecm have over the factory PCM with HPtuners (or any other full editing package)?

AJMurray

Until our software is finalized I really couldn't fairly compare what we will be offering with HPTuners. I am sure they make a fine product. As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) their target customer is someone with a factory car who wants to tune the stock computer. Our target customer is someone with a LS1 (or other EFI) engine who is transplanting it into a vehicle other than what it originally came in (street rod, muscle car, etc). I don't envision that there would be a cost justification in installing PERFECT in place of the stock wiring and ECM in, say, a 2001 Camaro.

MrDude_1

iTrader: (4)

what about someone like me?

most swaps (that ive seen) take a stock LS1 drivetrain, bolt it in, and retain the factory wiring harness.

the harness itself is almost stand alone, and is extremely easy to wire into anything.

they're all running the OEM computer, and they use HPtuners just like everyone else.

the OEM harness and PCM is basicly free with the engine/trans.. they dont really add anything to the price of the engine.

is there a reason to buy the aftermarket system in that case?

hardwired

Hardwired is an all engine harness shop. we could get a package together for $900 to about $1000 depending on what options you might want in the harness and the program you will need. the harness comes labled and already formed to the motor. its also covered in flame retardent split loom. you can call Hardwired at (210) 827-0556 ask for Rudy.

MrDude_1

iTrader: (4)

hey rudy.

im going to start telling people to NEVER goto hardwired, just because you keep spamming the board with your "call us" replies.


either post something useful/helpful, or just stop alltogether.

if you want to advertise on this board, the link to do so is to your right. -->

AJMurray

I'd have to say, on the surface of it, the answer would be no, at least if you're retaining the stock wiring and PCM. I'd like a little wiggle room there though because until we've finalized the software I can't answer intelligently. It could be that our PERFECT ECM is capable of fine-tuning certain engine functions that cannot be tuned in the factory PCM. If that is true and there is a performance gain I guess it would then be in the eyes of the user if it is worth the added cost.

I hate speculating, though, and I am reluctant to give you inaccurate or misleading information. I think I can address this issue with greater clarity in a few weeks. Whatever the answer, it will be the truth. We're not interested in making sales based upon unsubstantiated claims.

Adrian Murray
President, Painless Performance Products

MrDude_1

iTrader: (4)

understandable.

the answers im looking for,something like 2 or 3 bar MAP support, speed density support, ect..., cant be answered until its finalized.... im in software too, so i know, until its DONE, you never really know what you'll have.

LS1 Hybrid Magna

“As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) their target customer is someone with a factory car who wants to tune the stock computer. Our target customer is someone with a LS1 (or other EFI) engine who is transplanting it into a vehicle other than what it originally came in (street rod, muscle car, etc).”

Right AJ!
I do think there is lots of space for new LS1 electronic products!
I wonder what you guys are “cookin”!
And even more space if they dont burn the Visacard just because its a LS1 product!


Wrong AJ!
HPTuners have both style customers!
The customer with a 2001 SS who wants to rework his tables after putting some cam,headers and other stuff
and for sure they have Mr.Dude as a costumer (and soon to come me ) who has put a LS1 in a third gen and
now can delete stuff like Vats and other stuff we Hybrid swappers dont need!

A little joke and i hope you dont mind!
Is your new product(Harness/Cpu) a new “Interceptor”?

Back in the days my buddy stationed here drove a Mustang 5.0 and was so dammmm proud to put a
Crane Interceptor (Crane CompuCam 2000) in his car and on the first meetings he was playing with this then new toy and telling People that with this “scannertool” he could fly to the moon!
We Chevy boys had to wait ages till Accel came up with there TPI/ SR software and we could start to play!

The real advantage is like HP Tuners was Windows , everybody is using it and alone on LS1Tech.com you´ll always find some
one you can help in any stage of a problem!

There are always two sides of a story and this might be your market:
People who want a harness and CPU ready to install (something like the GM Hot rod Harness)
People who dont wanna put used parts on a new GM LS1 Crate engine
And people who grew up with you guys using your TPI Painless in the old days already and love your products!

Harley was building bikes ..then came the Japs and everybody was laughing about their motorbikes!
Nobody in the US Industrie laughs about our “ricer Friends” anymore! They are a tough competition!
Today if you sit back with a perfect electronic product and think you are smart azz at the end of the week
someone is laughing about you with a better electronic product!

The tough electronic market and everyday new designs brought us a very ddeeeppp price reduction on the
“LS1 software market” at the end of last year!

This tough competition will be a nice thing for all LS1 wrenchers cause prices will fall and the CPU´s and all other
Related parts to a LS1 swap will drop and the quality will rise!

I am with Mr. Dude other companies are paying for their promotion on this side...........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


OOOOppps Map and SD....

AJMurray

LS1Hybrid,

As I tell my employees, I am never wrong, just misinformed. Anyway, thanks for setting me straight.

I well remember the Interceptor, as well as such early aftermarket attempts at fuel injection as Holley's Projection. Prior to Painless I was VP of Edelbrock for 11 years. I've been around, I'm sorry to say, longer than I care to remember.

The PERFECT System uses Delphi's MEFI 4 controller as its starting point. We chose this controller because it is bulletproof, waterproof, indestructible and, due to huge production runs for GM, affordable (a relative term, yes, but we've all seen $3,000 FI systems out there). I imagine that, given time, the price will come down, if history is any judge.

I'll share something with you as long as you don't tell everyone in this forum: we sell about 4,000 fuel injection harnesses a year and for years this has been the fastest growing part of our product line. The figure includes all harnesses: TBI, TPI, LT1, LS1 and Ford. Every single one of those people who has bought our harness has, for one reason or another, elected not to use a stock harness. Likewise, every single one has had to use some sort of ECM.

We're a niche marketer. You don't get much more niche that wiring harnesses for '32 Fords and '68 Camaros. We do better - and can be more attentive to and reactive to our customers needs - by not venturing too far out of our niche. The aftermarket graveyard is littered with companies that forgot their core business. So we don't expect all 4,000 people who will buy a Painless fuel injection harness this year to buy a PERFECT System instead. It would be nice but it won't happen. People like HPTuners are good companies who have drilled down to a finer niche and have done a good job in serving their market. Our desire is not to take them on. Your assessment that our customer is the person who doesn't want to put a used harness and ECM on a new crate engine is dead-on. I'll take all that business.

At the same time, the more technically savvy tuners like those here at LS1Tech may benefit by our presence in the market as we certainly benefit from theirs. Maybe not with version one that's coming out soon, but maybe down the road. We would be ill-advised not to listen to you, to learn from you and to adapt.

We're in this for the longhaul and hope to engage in many more such discussions and to developing friendships in this market.

redmist

I got mine for $420 on ebay. As I am starting with a gutted 1977 BMW and I am doing custom chassis and dash wiring I didn't see the point in starting with a junkyard harness.
Yes a 1998 PCM is required. I got a refurbished one for $179 with a lifetime guarantee.
The nice thing about the painless harness is it just gives me what I need.
The quality is killer.
FYI I built the engine myself from parts, a crank here a bare block there for about $600. I guess it boils down to how you want to budget your time and cost/benefit.

MrDude_1

iTrader: (4)

dont get me wrong, i wasnt trying to imply you'll never sell your system, i can see how its useful in alot of ways.. esp for someone not fimilar with(or willing to learn ) GMs system...

i was just curious in its potenial benifits... ive used a few aftermarket setups before (Commander950, megasquirt, AccelDFI).. and i was wondering about the features of yours compared to OEM... im sure like 99% of all aftermarket EFI systems, its easier to tune then stock... but i was wondering about additional features.

AJMurray

MrDude,

I understood what you were saying. Just letting you know we're on the same wavelength. I need to pretend like I'm working now so I'll have to sign off, but as soon as we have something concrete to discuss regarding programming capabilities and performance gains I'll come back and post it here. Shouldn't be more than a few weeks.

Adrian Murray

LS1 Hybrid Magna

AJ good to know that there are some grandpa´s around...that can look back LOL!The Interceptor and yes the Pro Jection hahahahah!


Ok as said earlier its good to know that more new ideas are coming up!

"The PERFECT System uses Delphi's MEFI 4 controller as its starting point. We chose this controller because it is bulletproof, waterproof, indestructible ......."


sounds like a visit to GM Supermarket(Ram Jet Module?) that should be
pretty interessting cause there was lots of debate about that "ECM" on TGO!

Redmist ...dont worry when you get older you buy what the youth is wrenching on hahahah!

AJ if you need real time testing i´ll be happy to get a free unit from you hahahah!

custom 68

iTrader: (9)

I just purchased one of Painless' "truck" conversion harnesses. It will be used to add the gen3 motor to my 68 pickup. This appeared to have everything I need for the hookup including tach and speedo. I am still working on the mechanicals but hope to soon find out how well this goes together. I was able to purchase this for not much more than a reworked harness. This seemed to be a better option for me. I still hve my original harness I may rework myself some day for the next swap plus this is a very clean looking install.
Thanks
Dave