late 2nd gen LS1 conversion
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Teching In
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From: Ohio
late 2nd gen LS1 conversion This might have been touched upon before, but I have a 1980 Firebird Formula, and I'm looking to put a LS1/T56 into it. I already have a couple sites that offer motor mounts and exhaust for this setup, but i'm more interested in the stuff that has to be custom made. I heard from somewhere the best tranny crossmember would be the Turbo 400 crossmember with the mount welded onto the front of the crossmember instead of the back. Anyways, I need as much info on this as possible, and if someone has a late 2nd gen bird that they've done this to, and have documented it well, please reply with the website. I think my biggest concern is hooking up the clutch assembly to the T56 and if i'm gonna have to use the gas tank out of a ls1 car because of the fuel pump?
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From: CA
Re: late 2nd gen LS1 conversion Plan on a few extra nights in the garage! I am working on a 70 Camaro RS, it has an LS1 / T56 combo. Details on www.geocities.com/thelastcaboose
Look under RS-R, as you can see I spent a few hours in the shop also. I made the clutch/brake master cylinder mount out of 3/8" plate not too dificult at all. As you can see in the pedal details I used hiem joints for ease of adjustment. The fuel tank mod is under way I have "deep sumped" the rear half and added a baffel. The fuel and return lines are 3/8" (I am using a 98 Vette fuel rail). After taking the sender/fuel line apart I removed all of the lines from the "cap" and placed the new lines into it. All I need to pick up is the Walbro GSS340HP pump. I will update the pictures as soon as possible.
TOM
Look under RS-R, as you can see I spent a few hours in the shop also. I made the clutch/brake master cylinder mount out of 3/8" plate not too dificult at all. As you can see in the pedal details I used hiem joints for ease of adjustment. The fuel tank mod is under way I have "deep sumped" the rear half and added a baffel. The fuel and return lines are 3/8" (I am using a 98 Vette fuel rail). After taking the sender/fuel line apart I removed all of the lines from the "cap" and placed the new lines into it. All I need to pick up is the Walbro GSS340HP pump. I will update the pictures as soon as possible.
TOM
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From: CA
Re: late 2nd gen LS1 conversion OH! I forgot the trans mount. Use a 350 TH crossmember cut the the mount as close as possible to the crossmember Drill a hole in the center of the mount weld it onto the front. It mounts into the same original in the subframe. This will locate the motor/trans where it needs to be in the chassis. Give yourself about 3/4" clearence at the pitman arm and your set. The stock "headers" until someone makes a set for the "f" body. I can go on for ever but....
TOM
TOM
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From: Ohio
Re: late 2nd gen LS1 conversion wow, thats enough to scare most people away, i think i'll eventually try to tackle it though. Unfortunatly, I'm in the middle of school at the University of Northwestern Ohio and the bird is my only car at the moment, so a big project is outta the question for the moment. If you dont mind me asking, how much have you invested in everything regarding the engine swap?
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From: CA
Re: late 2nd gen LS1 conversion I have done this the way I wanted through the project, I have all of the receipts BUT I refuse to add them up. As you can see it was a ground up restification with no compromise. I am not afraid to get my hands dirty, or sanded smooth (I did all of the sanding on the body). The body came back from the body shop Feburary 1st, and you can see where I am at. Motor/trans $4000 / rear end $2600 / brakes $2200 Paint $5000 wheels & tires $1800 need I go on?
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From: CA
Re: late 2nd gen LS1 conversion It may be hard to see but I used the stock pedal assy. and adapted the LS1 clutch M/C to it. It worked out slick, using hiem jounts. The plate that compensates for the angle of the M/C is bent at a 19 deg angle. I used heavy cardboard to make a pattern and trimmed as required. I decided to use a 98 Corvette M/C and power booster so I made brackets and welded them to the plate. Another 15 min. job that took 2 days. This job is just one big modification!
TOM
TOM
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Thread Starter
Teching In
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From: Ohio
Re: late 2nd gen LS1 conversion i hear ya <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Yes i see what you mean about using the bracket, I went through all the pictures and looked at each one closely. Another question, you said you had to modify the steering linkage to get it to clear the p/s pump and header, what did you need to do to it, or did you end up going with the rack and pinion setup? Also, does the engine sit back any further than normal because of you custom mounts, or does it sit in stock location? What stage are you currently at with the car? I'd like to see pics of the final product when its done, it looks beautiful so far <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
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Joined: Feb 2002
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From: CA
Re: late 2nd gen LS1 conversion The steering was an easy fix I took the stock shaft that connects to the rag joint and exchanged it for a later model with the correct upper connection. that way the newer tilt column mated to the older style quick steering box.
The set back of the motor was determined by the trans mount and a lot of measurements. The oil pan clears by 1/2" the next closest thing is the alternator and pitman arm (3/4"). The stock exhust has alot of room also.
As for where am I now, the brake lines are all bent and installed, the next thing will be the completion of the fuel tank, and on to the wiring harnesses (body / motor).
Then the sheet metal and interior.
Then drive!!!
TOM
The set back of the motor was determined by the trans mount and a lot of measurements. The oil pan clears by 1/2" the next closest thing is the alternator and pitman arm (3/4"). The stock exhust has alot of room also.
As for where am I now, the brake lines are all bent and installed, the next thing will be the completion of the fuel tank, and on to the wiring harnesses (body / motor).
Then the sheet metal and interior.
Then drive!!!
TOM
Re: late 2nd gen LS1 conversion I am in the middle of a LS1/T56 swap into a '81 Turbo TA. This is not a bolt in but not impossible either. Every swap has its own challenges and a little touch of the person doing the work. I have my motor mounts made and clutch bracket done. Next is the fuel tank, which I am going to modify with a late model steel tank pickup. I have lots of pictures and plan a website but time is limited. I guess I'll have to get working on the website.
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From: Ohio
Re: late 2nd gen LS1 conversion If you have the pictures on your computer, can you possibly send them to bcampbell2858@hotmail.com ? I'm interested in getting as much information and pictures as possible, and since you have an 81 t/a, it will be a little more accurate.
<small>[ September 07, 2002, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: Formula301 ]</small>
<small>[ September 07, 2002, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: Formula301 ]</small>
Re: late 2nd gen LS1 conversion I shamed myself into slapping together a website this morning. Not pretty but has some info and pictures. Time to head out to the shop and get to work on the project. Now that I have the site started maybe I'll get it up to date and keep it there.
My web page
My web page
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 340
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From: Fort Worth TX
Re: late 2nd gen LS1 conversion The most important aspect of your tranny crossmenber is the drive line geometry. A "guy" told me how to make it fit, and it did. The problem was that when driving the car inthe upper gears at highway speeds it would vibrate to the point that it was scary. After two new drive shafts and many phone calls I got hooked up with a fellow that had done this( this is before I learned about this great site) before. My problem was severly screwed angles from the trans to drive shaft to the rear end. I had to cut out the tunnel and raise the trans 2.3 inches and relocate the holes on the upper control arms to get it corrected. Now she is like silk panties to 1xx. So the short of this advise is there is not an easy way out.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Fort Worth TX
Re: late 2nd gen LS1 conversion As requested through Email I will give a description to drive line angle as descibed to me, and worked for me.
There are three aspects to consider. First is the engine angle, second the differential angle, and finaly the driveshaft angle. I was told to use the garage floor as the reference. Use a magnetic protractor and find the angles that the engine and differential are at. It is important to have the engine and diff in the same plane. 2 degrees, front down, is a good angle to shoot for. Next, make sure the tail shaft of your tranny is higher than your input yoke on the rear end.
Please understand that I fought with this problem and looked for an answer for weeks, then someone much smarter that me told me what I am telling you, and after, on his word, cutting out my complete tunnel, relocating my upper control arm mounting locations, and rebuilding my crossmember, to achieve the basic theory desrcibed to me over a telephone call, I was blessed with a smooth ride up to very high speeds.
If you have anything to add, or further questions, I would be glad to assist.
Blake
There are three aspects to consider. First is the engine angle, second the differential angle, and finaly the driveshaft angle. I was told to use the garage floor as the reference. Use a magnetic protractor and find the angles that the engine and differential are at. It is important to have the engine and diff in the same plane. 2 degrees, front down, is a good angle to shoot for. Next, make sure the tail shaft of your tranny is higher than your input yoke on the rear end.
Please understand that I fought with this problem and looked for an answer for weeks, then someone much smarter that me told me what I am telling you, and after, on his word, cutting out my complete tunnel, relocating my upper control arm mounting locations, and rebuilding my crossmember, to achieve the basic theory desrcibed to me over a telephone call, I was blessed with a smooth ride up to very high speeds.
If you have anything to add, or further questions, I would be glad to assist.
Blake
