What fuel line/fuel rail to use??????????
11-07-2002, 02:23 PM
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Re: What fuel line/fuel rail to use?????????? Hey Lesrace, do you have a website or any pictures of your camaro conversion in progress? I'm looking to do an ls1/t56 swap into my 80 t/a and I'm lookin to get as much info from fellow 2nd gen fbody owners that are doing the conversion. Thanks!
11-07-2002, 05:11 PM
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Re: What fuel line/fuel rail to use?????????? Formula301
I dont have a website, If you want pictures, I can take some pics and send them to you Via email if you would like.
Speartech
the 13109 regulator from Aeromotive. I was looking at it on thier website, and it says it has two inlets and one return. Which I assumed you had to have the full fuel pump pressure run through the rails into the regulator and back to the pump. Or am I looking at this wrong? Sorry about all the questions.
I was originally going to do the whole system like 68LSS1 described, but I'm not going to have the motor to need that for a while. Main thing is I just want to be able to get it running, and not having to change the rails would save some money for other things needed.
Thanks
Bill
<small>[ November 07, 2002, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Lesrace82 ]</small>
I dont have a website, If you want pictures, I can take some pics and send them to you Via email if you would like.
Speartech
the 13109 regulator from Aeromotive. I was looking at it on thier website, and it says it has two inlets and one return. Which I assumed you had to have the full fuel pump pressure run through the rails into the regulator and back to the pump. Or am I looking at this wrong? Sorry about all the questions.
I was originally going to do the whole system like 68LSS1 described, but I'm not going to have the motor to need that for a while. Main thing is I just want to be able to get it running, and not having to change the rails would save some money for other things needed.
Thanks
Bill
<small>[ November 07, 2002, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Lesrace82 ]</small>
11-07-2002, 06:11 PM
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Re: What fuel line/fuel rail to use?????????? Lesrace82:
Yeah that would be excellent. I'm trying to gather as much information and learn as much about the conversion before I do it, and I have time anyways while I scrape together the money <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Its always best to go into a project knowing what needs to be done. My email is up top, just click the icon. Thanks!
-Brian
Yeah that would be excellent. I'm trying to gather as much information and learn as much about the conversion before I do it, and I have time anyways while I scrape together the money <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Its always best to go into a project knowing what needs to be done. My email is up top, just click the icon. Thanks!
-Brian
11-07-2002, 06:40 PM
#24
Re: What fuel line/fuel rail to use?????????? Lesrace82: You can't go thru the fuel rail and then to the regulator, the rail only has one opening. It goes: pump to regulator, regulator to fuel rail. The bottom of the regulator is the return. This way the fuel rail never sees more pressure than what you set the regulator to.
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91 Z28 LS2 408CI, LS9 Supercharger, LPE GT7 cam, Yank3000, 3450 raceweight.
Latest numbers: 9.71 ET, 141.42 MPH, 1.40 60' , 610 RWHP Mustang Dyno
www.speartech.com
11-07-2002, 07:46 PM
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Re: What fuel line/fuel rail to use?????????? Lesrace82
It really doesn't matter where in the system you put the regulator. Aeromotive will tell you to do it like the set up I'm using. But it's just as acceptable to put it (regulator) before the fuel rails. It will still maintain 58 psi. Mount it on the frame, fenderwell, or firewall. Run you return line, set your pressure and forget about it. Aeromotive regulators also have a 1/8" NPT gauge port on them. And you can cap one of the output ports if you only need one.
It really doesn't matter where in the system you put the regulator. Aeromotive will tell you to do it like the set up I'm using. But it's just as acceptable to put it (regulator) before the fuel rails. It will still maintain 58 psi. Mount it on the frame, fenderwell, or firewall. Run you return line, set your pressure and forget about it. Aeromotive regulators also have a 1/8" NPT gauge port on them. And you can cap one of the output ports if you only need one.
11-07-2002, 07:51 PM
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Re: What fuel line/fuel rail to use?????????? So the regulator does have output ports on it too then? Thats what I couldn't figure out. The description just said input ports so i figured it had to go through the rails first into the regulators input ports which went to the return port to get the unused fuel back to the tank.
Thanks
Bill
Thanks
Bill
11-07-2002, 08:03 PM
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Re: What fuel line/fuel rail to use?????????? I also have a question on what I should do. I am using a 99 6.0 LS1 motor. The motor is going into a 95 S10. I was planning on using an aftermarket intake pump, Reg and fuel lines. I was going to set it up so that I had a supply line that would split from 1 into 2 in the motor compartment to supply the fuel rails. From the fuel rails I was going to use 2 into 1 line going into the regulator to adjust the pressure. Then from there I was going to run my return line back to the tank.
I was talking to a guy at street and performance and he suggested that I use the stock S10 fuel lines and use their fuel rails. He also gave me a Gm part number for what fuel pump to use. My question is if I do this and use there fuel rails with the factory style regulator how would I connect the two hard lines together, bend the lines and what would I do for a vacuum line for the regulator. I am assuming that their regulator is vacuum driven. The other thing I can figure out is why the factor ran 3 lines. I know one line is a supply and the other line was the return, it has the regulator on it. But I have a 3rd line that has a 90 deg push on style connector that I am not sure what its use was.
It just sounded way simpler to do the set up I wanted to do in the beginning. I was planning on using all Aeromotive parts. My motor will also be putting out around 440hp at the wheels and I plan on running a 150 shot of N2O.
What do you guys think?
I was talking to a guy at street and performance and he suggested that I use the stock S10 fuel lines and use their fuel rails. He also gave me a Gm part number for what fuel pump to use. My question is if I do this and use there fuel rails with the factory style regulator how would I connect the two hard lines together, bend the lines and what would I do for a vacuum line for the regulator. I am assuming that their regulator is vacuum driven. The other thing I can figure out is why the factor ran 3 lines. I know one line is a supply and the other line was the return, it has the regulator on it. But I have a 3rd line that has a 90 deg push on style connector that I am not sure what its use was.
It just sounded way simpler to do the set up I wanted to do in the beginning. I was planning on using all Aeromotive parts. My motor will also be putting out around 440hp at the wheels and I plan on running a 150 shot of N2O.
What do you guys think?
11-07-2002, 10:53 PM
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Re: What fuel line/fuel rail to use?????????? Lesrace82
Sorry about the confusion (and my choice of wording). Most, not all, regulators will have TWO "inlet" ports and One "return". Pump to inlet and out inlet to fuel rail. And, of course, return to tank (or even back to the fuel feed line). The regulator will maintain what ever pressure you dial in on both sides of the regulator (or inlet ports), so even though it's called an inlet port, you're actually using it as a outlet port. The regulator will only let fuel flow to return to keep pressure at what you set it to. That is why like I said earlier, Aeromotive will say to put the regulator after the rails, but it's not necessary (and does not affect part reliability) to put it before the rails. Hope this helps.
<small>[ November 07, 2002, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: 68LSS1 ]</small>
Sorry about the confusion (and my choice of wording). Most, not all, regulators will have TWO "inlet" ports and One "return". Pump to inlet and out inlet to fuel rail. And, of course, return to tank (or even back to the fuel feed line). The regulator will maintain what ever pressure you dial in on both sides of the regulator (or inlet ports), so even though it's called an inlet port, you're actually using it as a outlet port. The regulator will only let fuel flow to return to keep pressure at what you set it to. That is why like I said earlier, Aeromotive will say to put the regulator after the rails, but it's not necessary (and does not affect part reliability) to put it before the rails. Hope this helps.
<small>[ November 07, 2002, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: 68LSS1 ]</small>
11-07-2002, 11:37 PM
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Re: What fuel line/fuel rail to use?????????? 6.0s10
I think the "their's" (S & P) rail and regulator set up they have is the '97-'98 vette, that has a regulator and return line OEM. See bgreens' reply earlier in this topic. But I don't think that will fit the truck intake (but maybe they have a set up for that and that is what they are talking about). I have no idea how the trucks are set up (my engine is out of a '98 F-body). That other line you are talking about sounds like the line going to the evap can. On the cars it's taped to the fuel line and connects to a sensor on the left hand top side of the intake. From there it goes to the left hand side and aft of the throttle body. As far as the connectors on the rail, you can have AN fittings brazed on, S & P has a setup that utilizes a piece of braided hose with OEM quick disconnects on one side and AN on the other, or someone else made a post a day or two ago about an adapter to adapt the QD's to AN I beleive.
<small>[ November 07, 2002, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: 68LSS1 ]</small>
I think the "their's" (S & P) rail and regulator set up they have is the '97-'98 vette, that has a regulator and return line OEM. See bgreens' reply earlier in this topic. But I don't think that will fit the truck intake (but maybe they have a set up for that and that is what they are talking about). I have no idea how the trucks are set up (my engine is out of a '98 F-body). That other line you are talking about sounds like the line going to the evap can. On the cars it's taped to the fuel line and connects to a sensor on the left hand top side of the intake. From there it goes to the left hand side and aft of the throttle body. As far as the connectors on the rail, you can have AN fittings brazed on, S & P has a setup that utilizes a piece of braided hose with OEM quick disconnects on one side and AN on the other, or someone else made a post a day or two ago about an adapter to adapt the QD's to AN I beleive.
<small>[ November 07, 2002, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: 68LSS1 ]</small>
11-07-2002, 11:44 PM
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Re: What fuel line/fuel rail to use?????????? 6.0s10
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...;f=21;t=000264
This should be the link for the QD to -6.
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...;f=21;t=000264
This should be the link for the QD to -6.
11-08-2002, 07:54 AM
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Re: What fuel line/fuel rail to use?????????? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 6.0s10:
<strong>I also have a question on what I should do. I am using a 99 6.0 LS1 motor. The motor is going into a 95 S10. I was planning on using an aftermarket intake pump, Reg and fuel lines. I was going to set it up so that I had a supply line that would split from 1 into 2 in the motor compartment to supply the fuel rails. From the fuel rails I was going to use 2 into 1 line going into the regulator to adjust the pressure. Then from there I was going to run my return line back to the tank.
I was talking to a guy at street and performance and he suggested that I use the stock S10 fuel lines and use their fuel rails. He also gave me a Gm part number for what fuel pump to use. My question is if I do this and use there fuel rails with the factory style regulator how would I connect the two hard lines together, bend the lines and what would I do for a vacuum line for the regulator. I am assuming that their regulator is vacuum driven. The other thing I can figure out is why the factor ran 3 lines. I know one line is a supply and the other line was the return, it has the regulator on it. But I have a 3rd line that has a 90 deg push on style connector that I am not sure what its use was.
It just sounded way simpler to do the set up I wanted to do in the beginning. I was planning on using all Aeromotive parts. My motor will also be putting out around 440hp at the wheels and I plan on running a 150 shot of N2O.
What do you guys think?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">FWIW, I don't know of any GM fuel pump that supports that kind of HP. I'd definitely do your own custom recipe at that level, for safety's sake. Going to AN lines makes it easy at that point IMO. S&P's stuff, as well as the custom adapters to the stock lines, is all good, nice looking parts, but is very spendy. Doing a few brazed on AN fittings is cheap, and AN allows you connections to any filter/pump setup you want.
<strong>I also have a question on what I should do. I am using a 99 6.0 LS1 motor. The motor is going into a 95 S10. I was planning on using an aftermarket intake pump, Reg and fuel lines. I was going to set it up so that I had a supply line that would split from 1 into 2 in the motor compartment to supply the fuel rails. From the fuel rails I was going to use 2 into 1 line going into the regulator to adjust the pressure. Then from there I was going to run my return line back to the tank.
I was talking to a guy at street and performance and he suggested that I use the stock S10 fuel lines and use their fuel rails. He also gave me a Gm part number for what fuel pump to use. My question is if I do this and use there fuel rails with the factory style regulator how would I connect the two hard lines together, bend the lines and what would I do for a vacuum line for the regulator. I am assuming that their regulator is vacuum driven. The other thing I can figure out is why the factor ran 3 lines. I know one line is a supply and the other line was the return, it has the regulator on it. But I have a 3rd line that has a 90 deg push on style connector that I am not sure what its use was.
It just sounded way simpler to do the set up I wanted to do in the beginning. I was planning on using all Aeromotive parts. My motor will also be putting out around 440hp at the wheels and I plan on running a 150 shot of N2O.
What do you guys think?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">FWIW, I don't know of any GM fuel pump that supports that kind of HP. I'd definitely do your own custom recipe at that level, for safety's sake. Going to AN lines makes it easy at that point IMO. S&P's stuff, as well as the custom adapters to the stock lines, is all good, nice looking parts, but is very spendy. Doing a few brazed on AN fittings is cheap, and AN allows you connections to any filter/pump setup you want.
11-08-2002, 06:40 PM
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Re: What fuel line/fuel rail to use?????????? Thanks LSS1 for the info on the regulators.
I had a thought about the stock fuel rails too. I know some people have brazed on AN fittings. But I saw in Jegs, that Russell makes a hard tube to AN fitting adapter. Its only $7.00 and will take the stock 3/8 line on the inlet for the fuel rail and crimp on a -06 AN fitting. No flaring is required. Just tossing this out to see what everyone thinks.
<small>[ November 08, 2002, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: Lesrace82 ]</small>
I had a thought about the stock fuel rails too. I know some people have brazed on AN fittings. But I saw in Jegs, that Russell makes a hard tube to AN fitting adapter. Its only $7.00 and will take the stock 3/8 line on the inlet for the fuel rail and crimp on a -06 AN fitting. No flaring is required. Just tossing this out to see what everyone thinks.
<small>[ November 08, 2002, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: Lesrace82 ]</small>
11-08-2002, 10:02 PM
#34
Re: What fuel line/fuel rail to use?????????? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> John B: The table for injector flow rate vs load is a different number at each entry with an uncompensated regulator (the injector will flow a different amount at various MAP numbers with constant fuel pressure). On the truck fuel tables the injector flow rate is the SAME number for all load entries since the regulator pressure raises as the load goes up.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">John S., now I am relly confused....when I run on the dyno my A/F curve is almost table top flat with the injector flow rate tables starting at 4.14 and ending at 4.54 with 58 PSI <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">John S., now I am relly confused....when I run on the dyno my A/F curve is almost table top flat with the injector flow rate tables starting at 4.14 and ending at 4.54 with 58 PSI <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
11-09-2002, 09:32 AM
#35
Re: What fuel line/fuel rail to use?????????? John B: That sounds correct. I may not be aware of your exact setup, and I certainly won't argue with dyno results. I think my whole point is this:
If you are using a regulator with a vacuum line hooked up to it, then by design you injector flow rate table entries should be the same throughout the table, because as the engine load changes, so does the vacuum applied to the regulator resulting in a pressure differential across the injector that remains constant.
If you run a NON-vacuum compensated regulator (no vacuum hose hooked up), and the regulator is set to a fixed value (say 58psi), then the pressure differential across the injector will vary with load, so the flow rate entry in the table needs to change at various loads.
I may not be explaining that clearly (I do that at times <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> ) but that makes sense when youi look at the table entries in LS1 Edit. For the cars (Y and F), it is a different entry at each table location. For the trucks, the entire table has the same number at each load entry.
Does that make any sense?? <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />
If you are using a regulator with a vacuum line hooked up to it, then by design you injector flow rate table entries should be the same throughout the table, because as the engine load changes, so does the vacuum applied to the regulator resulting in a pressure differential across the injector that remains constant.
If you run a NON-vacuum compensated regulator (no vacuum hose hooked up), and the regulator is set to a fixed value (say 58psi), then the pressure differential across the injector will vary with load, so the flow rate entry in the table needs to change at various loads.
I may not be explaining that clearly (I do that at times <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> ) but that makes sense when youi look at the table entries in LS1 Edit. For the cars (Y and F), it is a different entry at each table location. For the trucks, the entire table has the same number at each load entry.
Does that make any sense?? <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />
__________________
91 Z28 LS2 408CI, LS9 Supercharger, LPE GT7 cam, Yank3000, 3450 raceweight.
Latest numbers: 9.71 ET, 141.42 MPH, 1.40 60' , 610 RWHP Mustang Dyno
www.speartech.com
91 Z28 LS2 408CI, LS9 Supercharger, LPE GT7 cam, Yank3000, 3450 raceweight.
Latest numbers: 9.71 ET, 141.42 MPH, 1.40 60' , 610 RWHP Mustang Dyno
www.speartech.com
11-09-2002, 08:38 PM
#36
Re: What fuel line/fuel rail to use?????????? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you run a NON-vacuum compensated regulator (no vacuum hose hooked up), and the regulator is set to a fixed value (say 58psi), then the pressure differential across the injector will vary with load, so the flow rate entry in the table needs to change at various loads.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This makes perfect sense but I noticed that when I put a fuel pressure gauge on my fuel rail and rev the motor that the FP doesn't change. And really, the motor is using venturi vacuum, not manifold vacuum since the pick-up point for the air stream is in front of the throttle body.
John, is the fuel table for a '97-'98 C5 the same like a truck? This is the fuel rail that I use.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This makes perfect sense but I noticed that when I put a fuel pressure gauge on my fuel rail and rev the motor that the FP doesn't change. And really, the motor is using venturi vacuum, not manifold vacuum since the pick-up point for the air stream is in front of the throttle body.
John, is the fuel table for a '97-'98 C5 the same like a truck? This is the fuel rail that I use.
11-09-2002, 09:42 PM
#37
Re: What fuel line/fuel rail to use?????????? John B: The 97-98 Corvette injector tables are just like the F-body tables, NOT the truck tables. If you are duplicating the Corvette setup, then that tube on the regulator has no compensation effect. I believe that was just to keep dirt from building up inside the top of the regulator. In fact if I remember correctly, the 98 Corvette and 98 Camaro have the exact same flow rate tables!
I've corrected more than one car in here that had actually taken that hose to manifold vacuum, throwing off the ltft's. The owners always say: "Street & Performance said to do that". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
I've corrected more than one car in here that had actually taken that hose to manifold vacuum, throwing off the ltft's. The owners always say: "Street & Performance said to do that". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
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91 Z28 LS2 408CI, LS9 Supercharger, LPE GT7 cam, Yank3000, 3450 raceweight.
Latest numbers: 9.71 ET, 141.42 MPH, 1.40 60' , 610 RWHP Mustang Dyno
www.speartech.com
91 Z28 LS2 408CI, LS9 Supercharger, LPE GT7 cam, Yank3000, 3450 raceweight.
Latest numbers: 9.71 ET, 141.42 MPH, 1.40 60' , 610 RWHP Mustang Dyno
www.speartech.com
11-10-2002, 06:16 PM
#39
Re: What fuel line/fuel rail to use?????????? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> In fact if I remember correctly, the 98 Corvette and 98 Camaro have the exact same flow rate tables!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Now I feel better! So what the heck does that crazy vacuum line to the regulator do on the '97-'98 C5 if the injector tables are the same?
Someone said it's there for fuel economy but it can't do too much.....I just checked my fuel mileage after an extended freeway cruise at 70-75MPH and got 24 MPG with my 4.10's in 6th gear <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Not bad for close to 500FWHP in a 3600+ lb. sled!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Now I feel better! So what the heck does that crazy vacuum line to the regulator do on the '97-'98 C5 if the injector tables are the same?
Someone said it's there for fuel economy but it can't do too much.....I just checked my fuel mileage after an extended freeway cruise at 70-75MPH and got 24 MPG with my 4.10's in 6th gear <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Not bad for close to 500FWHP in a 3600+ lb. sled!
11-10-2002, 07:53 PM
#40
Re: What fuel line/fuel rail to use?????????? Yeah, I don't think it even qualifies as a "vacuum" line. I think it's there so it wouldn't look funny having an unused vacuum nipple hanging open in the air!
Great mileage! Ahh, nothing like a little efficiency (and that great 6th gear ratio!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Great mileage! Ahh, nothing like a little efficiency (and that great 6th gear ratio!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
__________________
91 Z28 LS2 408CI, LS9 Supercharger, LPE GT7 cam, Yank3000, 3450 raceweight.
Latest numbers: 9.71 ET, 141.42 MPH, 1.40 60' , 610 RWHP Mustang Dyno
www.speartech.com
91 Z28 LS2 408CI, LS9 Supercharger, LPE GT7 cam, Yank3000, 3450 raceweight.
Latest numbers: 9.71 ET, 141.42 MPH, 1.40 60' , 610 RWHP Mustang Dyno
www.speartech.com