Camaro_Zach

iTrader: (19)

you think i dont know of other shops and people there? I didnt buy my car yesterday. I kinda know people all over the us in different shops/manufactures. Ive made a lot of connections over the past 6 years. I wont come out and post my opinoins because people cry on this board alot. So if youre really curious as to where NOT to take the car. i got a list. However speed inc is without a doubt the best place in the area to get an ls1 swapped into a non ls1 car. they have done MANY of them.

As said before, if you do it in your garage let me know man, im more than happy to come lend a hand. There is no game and we arent playing it back and forth. We are all just trying to tell you 3g isnt outrageous. thats all. sorry im never on aim, i leave it on at work when i go home. The best way to reach me is via email (which i check and reply to all day) or on my cell. Email me if you wanna discuss anything. Just email me from my profile, I dont want to type it in here because of the freakin spam i may get.

--z

Aceshigh

I understand that, and no I wasn't implying you were playing games with this.
I was implying that the opinion game can go on forever, but I am interested to see what you have to say.

I'll email you so you can send me what you have on your end as far as experience goes. I have no problems listening to others experiences.
Like I said before, if all the parts were included in that $3,000 I wouldn't have had a problem with it....but that isn't what I was told. Larry threw me a $3,000 estimate if I had the harness done already. That was a few months ago. Then I was feeling slightly comfortable , but confused because last year they told me $3 g's for EVERYTHING.....so I called again because I figured maybe he was being rushed.

The 2nd time I emailed everyone at Speed Inc and Jon replied with .....basically a "I don't know for sure" type of answer.

That's the reason why I started this thread. Maybe it was a miscommunication on their part but I felt I wasn't getting ANY communication from them at all when I asked for a roundabout estimate the 2nd time they couldn't give me a solid answer....not even a "Well it will cost AROUND $3,000".....the 2nd time it was more like "Drop your car off, because we can't tell you until we're done......". Not even a roundabout estimate the 2nd time I asked......so I came here.

Would you drop your car off at a shop that just told you they'd bill you when they're done??? I know 99% of people wouldn't. Not when it's an LS1 specialty shop. I expected a professional estimate. I mean....come on man, we're talking motor mounts being the hard part here......seriously. Maybe the AC notch in the K-member. It wasn't like I wsa going to the local Firestone where I was going to be paying for their "on the job training" with the install. MAYBE they are the best, and maybe they're not, I have no idea, having NEVER worked with them before so it's a HUGE gamble on my part. I got a "custom" (there's your buzzword) paint job and I was given an pretty close estimate.

Anyone would want a basic guess or close guess at LEAST, but yes I wanted a much better guess close to 10% and I didn't get either. This is why I didn't feel comfortable dealing with them ANY further at all. I still have the emails I can post where the question of price was circumvented. I can't explain this any more in depth if you don't understand the circumstances still. But I'll email you to find out your sources and other opinions.

Like I said, I wasn't doggin their shop, I was expecting a comfort level that they didn't provide me to gain my business. That's all.

nuckifuts

iTrader: (7)

Speed INC is not out of line at all with an open ticket. I am doing my own LS1 swap and i service write at a shop and 3K is not out of line. When doing any kind of custom work there are so many little things that you cannot forsee that take time to do it which you cannot estimate for and it adds up quick. Modifying the fuel pickup, wiring the fuel pump/relay, running fuel lines, cutting braided line, making headers/exhaust, cooling system, throttle linkage, shift linkage etc... just takes alot of time and time is money to a business. especially if things are done correctly and look eye appealing.

best of luck to you and if you decide to do it yourself there are tons of people on here that can help.

LS1 SPEED INC.

iTrader: (1)

All Jon was trying to get you to understand or agree to, before we proceeded with a detailed estimate, was that there would be several things that would/could come up and would need attention. Things you werent considering, such as your oil pan needing modifcation or replacement. You wanted a 10% margin of error, and that isnt realistic on custom work. You thought that wasnt acceptable and we did not proceed.

Simple as that.

I tried leaving this thread on a good note earlier, and I will try to again. Good luck with your conversion, and we will be here if you need any parts, or some of your mechanical work or tuning done.

BTW, check out my 59 IMpala conversion www.ls1speed.com/59

Tom

-Joseph-

iTrader: (12)

I am doing a similiar swap in my own car, but I wouldn't do one at TSP on a customers car for very cheap, if at all since those aren't the cars we work on. Now if a buddy needed some help on the weekend with his swap, I'd be more than happy to help out. $3700 sounds kinda cheap to me for the amount of work, it would be interesting to see what S+P or Yearone (if they do them) charges.

Aceshigh

Understood.

I got what I was looking for, that's all this thread was intended for.
I was just relaying my experience.
After 5 unreturned phone calls over a 2 week period and 3 or 4 email exchanges
I didn't get what I was looking for, so I had to ask in this thread.
I want an estimate so I don't get screwed, legally the estimate has to be within 10% of final costs.
If a shop won't do it, then I won't do business with them it's that simple.
I have to cover my a** just like any shop wants to cover theirs. That's all.

Schitzo called S+P for an estimate and it was ungodly expensive. He posted awhile ago.
I personally can't see why either. Unless they were planning on getting all fancy with it.

He's also got a 2nd gen. There's a few people that have done it....and some it's been expensive and others it hasn't been. I guess it just really depends on where you go for the work. Unfortunately I'm not a rich old fart with an open ended credit card to do this kind of stuff.

Camaro_Zach

iTrader: (19)

I realize the "give or take" estimate sucks and all, but i get that all the time. Hence why I started to do all my work. APE with the turbo kit 2 years ago, "well i dont know what its gonna cost or how long its gonna take..." OH PLEASE LET ME SIGN ON THE DOTTED LINE!

for 3g you can buy a decent welder (or even rent one) and you can get some nice chop saws and die grinders from sears, and then fab your own motor mounts in a weekend, send em away to get powder coated, or do what id do and get some por15, that **** is awesome and will prevent rust forever. same goes for the trans x-membah.

i agree its not rocket science, not much speed shops do is rocket science. what GM does is rocket science, bolting on ****, cutting pipe, etc, not rocket science. Im just sayin unless its a routine job that they do all the time, such as cam swaps etc, they cant lock in a price, even body repair guys dont lock in until the job is done, **** even my dealership when i bring my truck in says the same ****.

all im saying is. its common to get the *shrug* when it comes to price, espically for a custom job, yeah it sucks, but like i said, go to sears then. and tell me if youre goin, i got a club card and i know a few guys there on a first name basis hahaha.

LS1 SPEED INC.

iTrader: (1)

You seem well studied on what needs to be done, why dont you give the job a stab yourself? Why pay someone at all? Keep a record of how much time it takes, include research time to overcome unforseen issues, as well as parts that you didnt plan on buying, and the overnight shipping charges it takes to get that particular phase of your project done. Then, make it public, so people can learn from your project.

It will always be more gratifying doing it yourself.

Oh, and for the record, 10% on repair work is very reasonable, 10% on custom work is not......unless the estimate was inflated from the start. That 10% could beat "eaten" up by one additional needed part alone.

Brains

iTrader: (7)

Estimates are just that, estimates.. I had a car worked on once, and the body shop originally estimated 11k in work. When it was done, the bill was 19k !!

Doing the work yourself is definitely more satisfying (IMHO), but not everyone has that option either. I'm nearing completion of my own conversion, and let me tell you - many of the estimates I originally made have been blown because of all the custom work. Could I have stuck to my original estimates? Yes and no. Many I nailed down, a couple I could have rushed through but chose to do things better, while others were basically a miss because of things unforseen. That's the way it goes doing custom work. Sure, I could have half-assed it and made my original estimate, but I wouldn't have ended up with anywhere near as nice of a car.

If you want someone to nail down a solid estimate and stick to it, be prepared to have a bunch of cut corners and sloppy work because they're forced to meet the deadline/dollar limit. Ultimately you'd just wish you did it right the first time. Good work costs money.

LS1 SPEED INC.

iTrader: (1)

We have been down that road, and I wont anymore. Its a no win, either lose money no the job, and do it "nice", or cut corners and no one is proud of the car.

Camaro_Zach

iTrader: (19)

oh dear lord, im so glad i didnt do what you just said tom. i dont want to know the money ive lost in shipping cause i didnt know what i was doing, or hoped the longshot would work, etc. and then ate the shipping back, after i had it overnighted to me. god damn. thanks for the depressing thought today hahaha.

02WS6Bird

iTrader: (2)

Ace let me know whats up man

Aceshigh

Waiting on a shop to determine the final costs overall and me getting down there. Honestly I only have a 1 car garage that isn't big enough to do this install. So the hard part for me would be getting the motor in place. If I knew you had a secure shop to leave my car at I'd do it with you, but that's my only beef. I won't leave my car in an unsecure area or outside.

We're close Adam, you still might be up after this motor gets put in.
Next I have to order everythign like they are saying before I go because I can't sit there and pay overnight fees on everything. Gotta make sure my parts are set before dropping it off, that's what we're working on right now is my parts list to order. What they are saying is quite possible that the install can go over the initial cost estimates. Right now I'm working with Speartech on my harness and how to connect my fans so I know how that is done. I have 2 relays, but I don't have the tray they plug into.....so I'm trying to understand how these connect. I want them both on or off, not like the factory setting. That's how almost all the others did theirs too.

That's why this job is being done in phases.
Phase 1 is getting the motor in place with the mounts.
Once that is done, I'm going to ask them right then if this is an estimate that is still around my price range, if it goes over ALOT then I pull the car with that done at least because that's the main part that I just can't do. Then I call you, and we do the rest out of my garage because I might be able to use my buddies HVAC shop.

They've already clarified to me that this is the hardest part that MAY require more labor if custom mounts are needed but they don't think it will be necessary considering they are doing an LS1 on a 78 subframe as we speak.
Fuel system I'm debating an internal pump or external pump.....still not sure yet. Internal is a pain in the *** to repair......so I'm still debating that part.

There's 4 factors in any restoration and project. Motivation - Ability - Time - Money.
Time and ability are the problem on my end. I have the money and motivation.
I know I can probably do everything except mounting the motor.
It would be OJT for me though, but S+P has a nice tutorial for me to follow on DVD.
Problem is, I'm an engineer who is also "On Call" full time, and I'm a FT student also.....plus throw a woman into that mix.....
Problem also is that I want to DRIVE my car this summer for once......I never drive the damn thing and I've spend close to $15,000 restoring it already. Now add in the cost of the motor, and install and I'm close to $23,000+
.....this is why I'm reluctant to learn it myself....I know it wouldn't be done til next year.....if that.

02WS6Bird

iTrader: (2)

I have a secure garage, i just need to put my 2 rides somewhere lol finish my camaro and get the other one out of the way

02WS6Bird

iTrader: (2)

i take it you found someone- so good luck Ace let me knwo how it goes, you need anything let me know. i'll be finishing up my projects ASAP

Aceshigh

Nope, not yet Adam. I have a great guy in Tinley Park who did his LS1 install into a Delta 88 and was VERY cool, and he gave me a very detailed list of all the parts I'll need.

He was the first one to help me realize that this job just really can't be done for less the $3,000. Hell, the parts alone are around that amount. So since this is costin me ALOT more then I anticipated, I'm carefully pricing out components, and of course the plan has been stalled temporarily. I still haven't filed my taxes and obviously haven't received my return yet which is funding this costly operation.

Street and Performance recommended their Type III shorty headers on page 89 , but I am not spending over $500 on headers that barely outperform the stock manifolds. So Lesrace82 recommended the Edelbrock Victor Race Series found here iwth the slip on collectors, we're still stuck at this point trying to find headers that will work for sure.....Jim (guy that helped me with the list) told me that the slip ons aren't ideal unless I use some kind of clamp deal or something.

So no, the answer to your question is, no still haven't decided. Still waiting for the cash to come through. I'll keep you in the loop though bud. PM me your phone number so I can program you into my LS1 contacts.

dsz28

Aceshigh quit whining & go get it done.

Camaro_Zach

iTrader: (19)

hahahahaha owned

well at least he helped you realize 3g is a good price. so now you know im not swingin off speed inc's nuts. i just know what all is involved. again if youre gonna do it, drop me a line, i can help out. my car is so f'ing close to being done it hurts me. i mean its RIGHT THERE man....i might have it in such a position that i can take it for its first "spin" around the culdesac on sunday haha. im not going to venture out of my little indy 500 track as i like to call it.

Brains

iTrader: (7)

At least SOMEONE was able to finally hit you upside the head with a clue-by-4

Aceshigh

Not worth my time. Schaumburg.....gee wonder where you're from.

You mean someone actually answered my questions....yeah that's the case here.
Yeah in depth answers USUALLY can do that to a person.
All I needed was a parts list to see this, 02WS6 was helpin, then I got Straightline involved, then another member of my other forum with more mature members in it kicked in more answers then I could have asked for. So now I'm educated and up to speed which only took some time to get it done.

Had the $3,000 number been a full blown install price, yes I'd have to agree with you.....but it wasn't. lol.....I've only said that several times now. I might be doin this myself with another member or I might be taking it to straightline. Thanks for the offer though. I just sold my GTO oil pan, and found the Fbody one cheap. So it's already started. WHat ALOT of people here don't realize is you have to perceive this from a complete beginner standpoint to assist, in which case very few people were obviously able to do. They assumed I knew alot to start with .....and I didn't.