Ive been contemplating going awd with my swap i was wondering front and rear setup i should use if i were to do this. Not planning on pushing crazy power prolly just around 500-600 ish with forged 402 with d1sc.

 

Is your Xtreme a 4wd or AWD chassis? (I've only seen 2wd Xtremes.)

 

The reason RAACCR asks is because the 2wd and 4wd chassis are completely different and from about mid-truck forward and none of the suspension parts interchange (2wd is coil spring, 4wd uses torsion bars). So, if you have a 2wd chassis, you need to swap to a 4wd chassis (ie frame swap) in order to have that front differential (which you kinda need for 4wd or AWD).

I was pretty sure that Xtreme's were only available from GM as 2wd.....

So, if you're serious about AWD in your Xtreme, start shopping for a good 4wd frame.

'JustDreamin'

 

I would say get a 4WD truck and make it look like an Xtreme would make is easyer for ya.

 

That's why I was asking...the frames are different. Also, with a blower, you'd want good exhaust...good luck getting that past the propshaft on the driver's side. You'll probably need to do fenderwell headers on the outside of the framerails, which brings up another issue...with fenderwell headers in the wheelwells, you'll need to run pretty narrow front tires for clearance.

 

Get a 4wd frame and AWD astro running gear.

 

thanks for all the feed back, yes my xtreme is 2wd i am thinking about making it an awd though as i get more into my swap. what do you think the front and rear differential can hold power wise? another thing is how low do you think i could get this thing im not saying on the ground or anything just lower than stock for an xtreme. i like the height its at right now and would rather not go back to stock height or higher

 

I know you're fond of your xtreme.....But, before you dump a bunch of money into it, then need to change frames to do AWD, you really ought to think through things. Changing frames isn't too hard, but its alot of work. Plus finding a good straight un-rusted frame is going to be fun (and possibly expensive since good straight frames usually come with a body attached).

If you're dead set on AWD, start shopping for a 4wd truck to start with. You can certainly put a body kit on it to look similar to or identical to the xtreme you've got today (its all the same sheetmetal underneath).

Lowering a 4wd (or AWD) isn't that hard. Just crank the torsion bars down. You're not going to be able to lay frame, but you should be able to get down to how low your xtreme is (stock xtreme height) without too much effort.

Suggestion: Go surf SyTy.net That's one of the Syclone & Typhoon boards. Why? Because they've got AWD S10's (they're 1st gens, but the chassis is basically the same) and you can see that they're not jacked way up in the air. Just don't ask any noobie questions like "how can I put the Sy turbo setup on my S10?" because you'll go down in flames....Look around and learn a bit about AWD's.

The Sy's and Ty's use the same front and rear diffs as the 4wd's. Most of the lightly modified Sy's and Ty's are in the 11's and 12's (running stock axles). By the time they get into the 9's and 10's they've typically upgraded the rear axle (from the 7.5" 10-bolt to a heavier unit, like an 8.5" 10-bolt or a 12 bolt). There really isn't an upgrade path for the front diff, but it doesn't seem like people are breaking them all that often.

Again, think seriously about whether you want to undertake a frame swap....Run the numbers (cost of swap, resale value of a modified xtreme may drop significantly, etc) and talk to some folks who have done it and get their experiences.....

'JustDreamin'

 

The Sy Ty don't run the 4wd S10 gear but the AWD Bravada Astro gear. Single speed transfer case and non disconnect front diff.

I'd say forget AWD.
1. It is heavier.
2. Lower on top end.
3. Never saw a AWD drag the rear bumped on launch.

 

the reason i would rather keep my truck is it has been severly modified (details later) wouldnt be worth it to me to start over with a 4wd and work off that i can get a rolling 4wd chassis with front and rear diffs in place for about $800. i can get one just bare frame for $350 im not sure yet on the awd van diffs or bravada havent really found a good source yet since they dont come through my friends yard very often. if i do go on with this what about the tranny i know 4l80e is heavy but i want it to be realiable. and what transfer case?

 

the frame swap doesnt bother me ive done them before nor does the resale value im not really worried about selling it anytime soon if ever

 

Well, if you're set on AWD, which it sounds like you are, here's my suggestion list.

1.) 4wd frame, complete with front & rear diffs. BTW, the wheels you have aren't likely to work with the 4wd stuff, the offset changes. Need positive offset (like 4th gen camaro stuff) to work. 4wd rear diff is about 4" wider than the 2wd diff.

2.) Transfer case from a pre '97 Bravada or pre '98 Astro. Those years will get you the BW 4472 tcase, which is a strictly mechanical device (no electronics) with a viscous coupling to split power front to rear. Later year Bravadas and Astros use the NV136 tcase, which is an electronically actuated box. Requires the appropriate BCM, harness, sensors, and all. Not worth the effort for the rewards.

3.) If you're serious about pushing 500 to 600 hp, the 80E is the only way to go (unless you're willing to put up with a TH400 3 speed). You WILL break the 4L60E / 700R4. There are a bunch of guys on SyTy.net with built (set on kill) 700R4's using all the latest parts & pieces that are on the 3rd, 4th or 5th tranny (or more). AWD is incredibly brutal on transmissions, due to virtually no tire slip to help pad the trans. The 80E does weigh more (I don't have an exact number, but its heavier). "Everybody" says that the 80E uses more horsepower, but I haven't seen anything to prove that (dyno tests, back to back 1/4's, anything other than its bigger and heavier so it must use more power). And with a highly modified 700R4 / 4L60E, they've usually cranked the line pressure WAY up, which eats a bunch of power (got to drive the pump, which is a big power user at high line pressure levels). In that instance the 80E might actually do better (you can get away with lower line pressure because of the transmission design). One of the Sy's that converted from 700R4 to 80E dropped .2 to .3 in the quarter with no other changes (not even the correct shift points in the trans). If it used a bunch more power, wouldn't it have gone slower?

4.) You'll need a specially built 80E. The standard rear output shaft on an 80E is 32 spline. All of the AWD tcases that you'd usually find are 27 spline input. Which means you need to change the output shaft on the trans to 27 spline. Sadly, that means taking the whole thing apart (output shaft is the first thing into the case & last out). That 27 spline shaft is a special piece (modified stock shaft). Also need the adapter to mate the BW4472 to the 80E. Check out SyTy.net for discussion of the 80E conversion. There are 2 or 3 trans builders on there that can put together an 80E to suit your needs. Talk to them, once you do some research.

Now, backing up just a moment, do you really want / need AWD? What are your intentions of usage? If this is a strip only truck, it'll probably be faster 2wd & back halved. If this is a street truck, then by all means go AWD and feel free to beat the snot out of it on street tires.

I don't have anything against AWD, in fact, I like it. I like it so much that I'm putting a 6.0L LQ4 into my 1999 Bravada. I'm swapping to the 80E (even behind a mostly stock motor, because of towing duty and future plans for forced induction) and have upgraded the tcase from a NV136 to a hybrid NV136 / 246 tcase (lets call it a NV146, even though NV doesn't build them). But in a dedicated strip only vehicle with slicks and a strip only suspension setup, AWD will probably be slower (has more stuff to spin and a strip only suspension can launch better at the strip).

'JustDreamin'

 

most of this truck's life will be on the street with very few times at the track. as far as the width the truck is already 4 inches wider on either side than a stock s-10. its the same width as a zr2. so differential width wont be that big of a deal. its got modified zr2 fender flares stretched and molding into the xtreme kit, the whole front end is hand laid fiberglass fenders and hood are one piece and are lift off, bed is completly stripped no floor inside panels nothing just tubs and bracing, lexan backglass is on the way, and will probably end up doing a 2 inch stock floor body drop to help get the cg down lower, that would lower it without changing any suspension geometry. im thinking headers wont be that big of a deal just take lots of time and fab work. but if i go with the body drop may cause more problems than i need

 

Sounds like you've had quite alot of fun with it.....

There are a couple of coilover front suspension conversions available for the Sy & Ty. You might check them out, as that might be better for your application than the factory torsion bar setup.

Exhaust will be tight on the drivers side. I haven't quite figured out how I'm going to make mine work. Between the firewall, torsion bar, front propshaft, steering column, and engine, there just isn't all that much space on the driver's side. I won't say its impossible, I'm just not sure there is room for a good set of full length headers.

Good luck! Post up pics when you're done (or now, for that matter).

'JustDreamin'

 

My son has an awd Bravada that he will sell cheap. He just needs to get it out of his yard. It even has a 3:42 posi rear.

 

i was wanting to go coilovers in the front, what about rack and pinion steering? what is your take on that?

 

Its a great idea.....But so far, haven't seen a kit to do it. Basically, you're on your own. Just make sure if you decide to do it that you do the engineering. Gotta worry about stuff like bumpsteer and ackerman geometry.....

I also don't know that rack and pinion will gain you anything. It probably is a few pounds lighter, but if you were really concerned about weight, you'd do an aluminum block and knock off 75+ lbs. Seems like all those Nextel Cup cars get by ok with plain old steering boxes (granted, there's probably a rule mandating them, they're basically late 60's chevy C-10's with fancy bodywork). If you do all that work, and there isn't a real advantage (performance or otherwise) is it worthwhile? Only you can make that call.

'JustDreamin'

 

'just dreamin' back on the transfer case could you not get input shaft modified or swapped to a 32 spline? instread of having to go through the 4l80e

 

I think the ZR2 S-10s have a bigger rear end. I'd probably use a tcase that is allready mounted to the 4L80E.

 

im gonna be honest AWD isnt worth all the trouble. a decent posi with slicks will get off the line just as well and have a better topend. for the coil overs they do make a kit, one of the guys up here put it on his syclone but it costs over 1k just for the control arms. i hope you are prepared to spend 20k to do this. good luck, im sure i wont see a finished product tho.