Pleae Help an Old F*rt... SBC, LT1, LS1... WHICH ONE?!
06-09-2006, 08:07 AM
#41
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Hey Mike....
I would agree, for a daily driver, the TH400 is nowhere near the perfect choice. The 700R4 has overdrive, but the ratios are spread pretty wide (compared to the TH350 & TH400 which have fairly close ratios), not necessarily the best choice for a lightweight overpowered sportscar. I'd be afraid that 1st gear would be completely useless (good for smoke shows, but not actually driving) and that the rpm drops from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 would be killer.
Have you thought about swapping to a manual? I would think in a Ferrari styled car that a T56 6 speed out of a '93 to '97 LT1 powered Z28 would be great fun. The LT1 package pretty much bolts up to any SBC. I expect you might spend more than $1600, but something to think about. I guess if you're going to sit in stop & go traffic all the time a manual isn't a good choice, but.....
The manual will give you the advantage of a much steeper overdrive (2 different 6th gear ratios were available, a .62:1 and .5:1 depending upon year) than the 700R4 (which is a .7:1 overdrive) further reducing rpm.
Lots of things to think about, aren't there?
Are you serious about running a supercharger? Do you have space for that? You definitely want to have some form of EFI to run a supercharger. Running a blow thru carb is possible, but not worth the hassles.
I would agree, for a daily driver, the TH400 is nowhere near the perfect choice. The 700R4 has overdrive, but the ratios are spread pretty wide (compared to the TH350 & TH400 which have fairly close ratios), not necessarily the best choice for a lightweight overpowered sportscar. I'd be afraid that 1st gear would be completely useless (good for smoke shows, but not actually driving) and that the rpm drops from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 would be killer.
Have you thought about swapping to a manual? I would think in a Ferrari styled car that a T56 6 speed out of a '93 to '97 LT1 powered Z28 would be great fun. The LT1 package pretty much bolts up to any SBC. I expect you might spend more than $1600, but something to think about. I guess if you're going to sit in stop & go traffic all the time a manual isn't a good choice, but.....
The manual will give you the advantage of a much steeper overdrive (2 different 6th gear ratios were available, a .62:1 and .5:1 depending upon year) than the 700R4 (which is a .7:1 overdrive) further reducing rpm.
Lots of things to think about, aren't there?
Are you serious about running a supercharger? Do you have space for that? You definitely want to have some form of EFI to run a supercharger. Running a blow thru carb is possible, but not worth the hassles.
06-09-2006, 08:49 AM
#42
Originally Posted by JustDreamin
Are you serious about running a supercharger? Do you have space for that? You definitely want to have some form of EFI to run a supercharger. Running a blow thru carb is possible, but not worth the hassles.
http://users.ev1.net/~ynot_dv8/69cam...commerce05.jpg
I have thought a LS1 would look good with the coilpacks hidden and the maggie and valve covers in a cast satin finish as well. You can get maggies for LS1s are traditional SBC. The eaton style blower provide good tq down low so I would not really see springing for a 383 crank in your 350. I would get the air to water intercooled version.
06-09-2006, 12:05 PM
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Auto vs. Manual
Originally Posted by JustDreamin
Hey Mike....
I would agree, for a daily driver, the TH400 is nowhere near the perfect choice. The 700R4 has overdrive, but the ratios are spread pretty wide (compared to the TH350 & TH400 which have fairly close ratios), not necessarily the best choice for a lightweight overpowered sportscar. I'd be afraid that 1st gear would be completely useless (good for smoke shows, but not actually driving) and that the rpm drops from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 would be killer.
Have you thought about swapping to a manual? I would think in a Ferrari styled car that a T56 6 speed out of a '93 to '97 LT1 powered Z28 would be great fun. The LT1 package pretty much bolts up to any SBC. I expect you might spend more than $1600, but something to think about. I guess if you're going to sit in stop & go traffic all the time a manual isn't a good choice, but.....
The manual will give you the advantage of a much steeper overdrive (2 different 6th gear ratios were available, a .62:1 and .5:1 depending upon year) than the 700R4 (which is a .7:1 overdrive) further reducing rpm.
Lots of things to think about, aren't there?
Are you serious about running a supercharger? Do you have space for that? You definitely want to have some form of EFI to run a supercharger. Running a blow thru carb is possible, but not worth the hassles.
I would agree, for a daily driver, the TH400 is nowhere near the perfect choice. The 700R4 has overdrive, but the ratios are spread pretty wide (compared to the TH350 & TH400 which have fairly close ratios), not necessarily the best choice for a lightweight overpowered sportscar. I'd be afraid that 1st gear would be completely useless (good for smoke shows, but not actually driving) and that the rpm drops from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 would be killer.
Have you thought about swapping to a manual? I would think in a Ferrari styled car that a T56 6 speed out of a '93 to '97 LT1 powered Z28 would be great fun. The LT1 package pretty much bolts up to any SBC. I expect you might spend more than $1600, but something to think about. I guess if you're going to sit in stop & go traffic all the time a manual isn't a good choice, but.....
The manual will give you the advantage of a much steeper overdrive (2 different 6th gear ratios were available, a .62:1 and .5:1 depending upon year) than the 700R4 (which is a .7:1 overdrive) further reducing rpm.
Lots of things to think about, aren't there?
Are you serious about running a supercharger? Do you have space for that? You definitely want to have some form of EFI to run a supercharger. Running a blow thru carb is possible, but not worth the hassles.
I read a couple of places that the blow-through carb setups were very good. I haven't really researched it though. Too, a custom setup would be required to match up with the wild induction system I want. If the only way to properly add a centrifugal SC is to go with a traditional modern induction system, then the SC is no longer appealing to me. Getting the engine to look right is more important to my design goals. A 100-150 shot of nitrous routed to the underside of the intake is probably a better solution, given my aesthetic pickiness issues.
06-09-2006, 12:19 PM
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SuperCharger
Originally Posted by 93Polo
If I went Forced Induction I would go EFI. Have you thought about a magna charger? Very reliable, great power band and they look cool. http://www.magnacharger.com/superchargersystems.htm
http://users.ev1.net/~ynot_dv8/69cam...commerce05.jpg
I have thought a LS1 would look good with the coilpacks hidden and the maggie and valve covers in a cast satin finish as well. You can get maggies for LS1s are traditional SBC. The eaton style blower provide good tq down low so I would not really see springing for a 383 crank in your 350. I would get the air to water intercooled version.
http://users.ev1.net/~ynot_dv8/69cam...commerce05.jpg
I have thought a LS1 would look good with the coilpacks hidden and the maggie and valve covers in a cast satin finish as well. You can get maggies for LS1s are traditional SBC. The eaton style blower provide good tq down low so I would not really see springing for a 383 crank in your 350. I would get the air to water intercooled version.
That's a truly gorgeous SC setup. If this car wasn't bodied as a sixties pasta burner, I'd jump on that. I just have my heart set on an induction system that's a little more similar to what the original Ferrari had... or at least something a bit more Ferrari-ish/sixties-ish.
I saw an LS1 with the look you mentioned and it was very nice indeed. All that satin aluminum looks really clean. If I can find the link, I'll post it for you.
Thanks Again!!
Mike
06-09-2006, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike1234
Hi 'JustDreamin' and thanks for the T56 suggestion. Yes, I absolutely considered the T56... that would be awesome. I'd be very happy with a six-speed even with the traffic situation. I consider clutching a T56 a worthwhile trade-off to the convenience of an auto. On the other hand, I wouldn't consider a four-speed manual, but that's just my personal preference. The traffic isn't that bad, just the occasional hang-ups. But isn't conversion to manual a bit complicated and therefore pricey? Or is this a fairly straightforward swap with minimal hassle regarding the peddle, linkage, etc? If I can have a nice .5:1 T56 installed with a performance clutch for $2K or so, that's very tempting indeed.
There are 2 primary GM T56 versions, the LT1 version (which is basically a SBC) and the LS1 version, and they're different and don't interchange (some parts are the same, but things like the main input shaft are different). If you decide to keep the SBC, use the LT1 parts and pieces. Only sticky wicket would be if your SBC is a two piece rear main seal block, you may need an aftermarket flywheel, since the LT1 setup is for a 1pc rear seal configuration.
For either application, you would need a pedal assembly, which includes a master cylinder, since it uses a hydraulic linkage. You certainly could grab the entire pedal assembly out of a LT1 f-body and put it in, but only if you've got the space (on the firewall and in the footwell).
I'm not sure if I'm helping you, because I keep giving you more things to think about and additional opportunities to spend money.....
'JustDreamin'
06-09-2006, 01:14 PM
#46
Originally Posted by Mike1234
Hi 93Polo,
That's a truly gorgeous SC setup. If this car wasn't bodied as a sixties pasta burner, I'd jump on that. I just have my heart set on an induction system that's a little more similar to what the original Ferrari had... or at least something a bit more Ferrari-ish/sixties-ish.
I saw an LS1 with the look you mentioned and it was very nice indeed. All that satin aluminum looks really clean. If I can find the link, I'll post it for you.
Thanks Again!!
Mike
That's a truly gorgeous SC setup. If this car wasn't bodied as a sixties pasta burner, I'd jump on that. I just have my heart set on an induction system that's a little more similar to what the original Ferrari had... or at least something a bit more Ferrari-ish/sixties-ish.
I saw an LS1 with the look you mentioned and it was very nice indeed. All that satin aluminum looks really clean. If I can find the link, I'll post it for you.
Thanks Again!!
Mike
06-09-2006, 02:17 PM
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T56
Originally Posted by JustDreamin
I don't know what kind of $$$ it'd take to get a T56 in. Haven't priced them recently. And I'm not sure if you'd want a "fresh" trans or be willing to run a good used unit (which with a manual isn't nearly the crapshoot a used automatic is) which would certainly affect the price.
There are 2 primary GM T56 versions, the LT1 version (which is basically a SBC) and the LS1 version, and they're different and don't interchange (some parts are the same, but things like the main input shaft are different). If you decide to keep the SBC, use the LT1 parts and pieces. Only sticky wicket would be if your SBC is a two piece rear main seal block, you may need an aftermarket flywheel, since the LT1 setup is for a 1pc rear seal configuration.
For either application, you would need a pedal assembly, which includes a master cylinder, since it uses a hydraulic linkage. You certainly could grab the entire pedal assembly out of a LT1 f-body and put it in, but only if you've got the space (on the firewall and in the footwell).
I'm not sure if I'm helping you, because I keep giving you more things to think about and additional opportunities to spend money.....
'JustDreamin'
There are 2 primary GM T56 versions, the LT1 version (which is basically a SBC) and the LS1 version, and they're different and don't interchange (some parts are the same, but things like the main input shaft are different). If you decide to keep the SBC, use the LT1 parts and pieces. Only sticky wicket would be if your SBC is a two piece rear main seal block, you may need an aftermarket flywheel, since the LT1 setup is for a 1pc rear seal configuration.
For either application, you would need a pedal assembly, which includes a master cylinder, since it uses a hydraulic linkage. You certainly could grab the entire pedal assembly out of a LT1 f-body and put it in, but only if you've got the space (on the firewall and in the footwell).
I'm not sure if I'm helping you, because I keep giving you more things to think about and additional opportunities to spend money.....
'JustDreamin'
Do you know if the LT1 version is available in the .5:1 ratio?I'm fairly sure there will be room for both the master cylindar and the pedal. Most (maybe all) 260Z's were manual from the factory. I'm no expert though... so if this one was an auto, I may have those issues to deal with.
06-09-2006, 02:32 PM
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"SC" stands for So Confused :^)
Originally Posted by 93Polo
Understood just kicking out ideas since a SC was mentioned.
06-10-2006, 08:59 AM
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there's a complete new LS1 (says 2004, which may have the 243 heads..) on ebay,
$3495 plus shipping. I found my motor by doing a search on ebay within 100 miles, then sent some emails.. you may be suprised what you find. I lost the bid on the original ebay post, and ended up with a better motor. with no shipping costs. well, gas money.
$3495 plus shipping. I found my motor by doing a search on ebay within 100 miles, then sent some emails.. you may be suprised what you find. I lost the bid on the original ebay post, and ended up with a better motor. with no shipping costs. well, gas money.
06-10-2006, 01:12 PM
#50
Originally Posted by Mike1234
Hi 'JustDreamin' and thanks for the T56 suggestion. Yes, I absolutely considered the T56... that would be awesome. I'd be very happy with a six-speed even with the traffic situation. I consider clutching a T56 a worthwhile trade-off to the convenience of an auto. On the other hand, I wouldn't consider a four-speed manual, but that's just my personal preference. The traffic isn't that bad, just the occasional hang-ups. But isn't conversion to manual a bit complicated and therefore pricey? Or is this a fairly straightforward swap with minimal hassle regarding the peddle, linkage, etc? If I can have a nice .5:1 T56 installed with a performance clutch for $2K or so, that's very tempting indeed.
I read a couple of places that the blow-through carb setups were very good. I haven't really researched it though. Too, a custom setup would be required to match up with the wild induction system I want. If the only way to properly add a centrifugal SC is to go with a traditional modern induction system, then the SC is no longer appealing to me. Getting the engine to look right is more important to my design goals. A 100-150 shot of nitrous routed to the underside of the intake is probably a better solution, given my aesthetic pickiness issues.
I read a couple of places that the blow-through carb setups were very good. I haven't really researched it though. Too, a custom setup would be required to match up with the wild induction system I want. If the only way to properly add a centrifugal SC is to go with a traditional modern induction system, then the SC is no longer appealing to me. Getting the engine to look right is more important to my design goals. A 100-150 shot of nitrous routed to the underside of the intake is probably a better solution, given my aesthetic pickiness issues.
Mike,
I think any manual trans swap (especially a T56) is going to be a lot more time and money than an overdrive auto. You are going to have to adapt the T56 hydraulics to the car which can be a lot of work to get it right. I was lucky enough to be able to buy a bolt-in T56 hydraulic kit for my '68 Camaro. There are enough guys out there doing the swap that the aftermarket has responded. Even if you went with a good 5 speed overdrive (like the TKO), you will have to figure out how to get the clutch linkage right. Probably not an easy bolt in deal.
I am not a fan of the 700-R4. They have their many weaknesses, but CAN be built to hold up. Like someone said, they have a wide gear spread which can hurt performance. If I were going to do an older style automatic swap into my car, I would go with a built 200-4R. They also have their problems when stock, but the aftermarket has all that covered. There are guys with Grand Nationsals running 9's with them, so I think that's proof enough. They have better gear ratios, and are a direct bolt-in for a TH-350 (no driveshaft mods needed, I think). You might want to check out California Performance Transmission (www.cpttransmission.com). This is Art Carr's new trans company, and they specialize in the 200-4R.
As far as superchargers go, I don't think it is going to be your best choice. I don't think you will get vintage look you want, and it can get expensive. You will want to build a blower-specific, low compression short block to handle it. You will also need a dedicated blow-through carb (good ones cost $$$), or EFI. With the weight of your car, I don't think it is needed. Like I said before, 430 hp in a little kit car is plenty fast. You can get that out of a mild, reliable 350. Honestly, I think that is all the power you need.
If the motor runs well now, I probably wouldn't worry too much about a rebuild. Do you know how many miles are on the motor? They say if it isn't broken, don't fix it. You could use the rebuild money to go towards better cylinder heads or the overdrive trans.
As far as compression goes, you cannot calculate compression ratio with a compression gauge. Cranking compression can vary greatly due to camshaft duration and displacment. The only way to get your true compression ratio is by making measurments and crunching the numbers. If you are going to have a reputable engine shop do the motor work, they should be able to measure the deck height and piston relief sizes (after the heads are removed) , and figure out what combustion chamber size you will need for the desired compression. Cranking compression WILL tell you if the engine is healthy though. It would be a good idea to do this before you tear down the engine.
Another thing to think about is this: If you build up the 350, you can always step up to fuel injection in the future as your budget allows. Slap a standard 4 barrel carb & intake on it for now, and enjoy it. You can get the multi-carb or EFI system later.
I feel your pain. I changed my mind more than a few times before I actually bought a new motor. It went from a N/A 383 to a Procharged 383, to a N/A 434, and finally to my Magnacharged LS1. I bought the LS1 before I could change my mind again, and I think I made the right choice for me. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
-Andy
06-10-2006, 01:34 PM
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Diligent, Patient... and QUICK
Originally Posted by 87ssMonte
there's a complete new LS1 (says 2004, which may have the 243 heads..) on ebay,
$3495 plus shipping. I found my motor by doing a search on ebay within 100 miles, then sent some emails.. you may be suprised what you find. I lost the bid on the original ebay post, and ended up with a better motor. with no shipping costs. well, gas money.
$3495 plus shipping. I found my motor by doing a search on ebay within 100 miles, then sent some emails.. you may be suprised what you find. I lost the bid on the original ebay post, and ended up with a better motor. with no shipping costs. well, gas money.
Of course... I still need to make up my feeble mind
06-10-2006, 02:57 PM
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700R4 can be re-geared 
Originally Posted by streetk14
Mike,
I think any manual trans swap (especially a T56) is going to be a lot more time and money than an overdrive auto. You are going to have to adapt the T56 hydraulics to the car which can be a lot of work to get it right. I was lucky enough to be able to buy a bolt-in T56 hydraulic kit for my '68 Camaro. There are enough guys out there doing the swap that the aftermarket has responded. Even if you went with a good 5 speed overdrive (like the TKO), you will have to figure out how to get the clutch linkage right. Probably not an easy bolt in deal.
I am not a fan of the 700-R4. They have their many weaknesses, but CAN be built to hold up. Like someone said, they have a wide gear spread which can hurt performance. If I were going to do an older style automatic swap into my car, I would go with a built 200-4R. They also have their problems when stock, but the aftermarket has all that covered. There are guys with Grand Nationsals running 9's with them, so I think that's proof enough. They have better gear ratios, and are a direct bolt-in for a TH-350 (no driveshaft mods needed, I think). You might want to check out California Performance Transmission (www.cpttransmission.com). This is Art Carr's new trans company, and they specialize in the 200-4R.
As far as superchargers go, I don't think it is going to be your best choice. I don't think you will get vintage look you want, and it can get expensive. You will want to build a blower-specific, low compression short block to handle it. You will also need a dedicated blow-through carb (good ones cost $$$), or EFI. With the weight of your car, I don't think it is needed. Like I said before, 430 hp in a little kit car is plenty fast. You can get that out of a mild, reliable 350. Honestly, I think that is all the power you need.
If the motor runs well now, I probably wouldn't worry too much about a rebuild. Do you know how many miles are on the motor? They say if it isn't broken, don't fix it. You could use the rebuild money to go towards better cylinder heads or the overdrive trans.
As far as compression goes, you cannot calculate compression ratio with a compression gauge. Cranking compression can vary greatly due to camshaft duration and displacment. The only way to get your true compression ratio is by making measurments and crunching the numbers. If you are going to have a reputable engine shop do the motor work, they should be able to measure the deck height and piston relief sizes (after the heads are removed) , and figure out what combustion chamber size you will need for the desired compression. Cranking compression WILL tell you if the engine is healthy though. It would be a good idea to do this before you tear down the engine.
Another thing to think about is this: If you build up the 350, you can always step up to fuel injection in the future as your budget allows. Slap a standard 4 barrel carb & intake on it for now, and enjoy it. You can get the multi-carb or EFI system later.
I feel your pain. I changed my mind more than a few times before I actually bought a new motor. It went from a N/A 383 to a Procharged 383, to a N/A 434, and finally to my Magnacharged LS1. I bought the LS1 before I could change my mind again, and I think I made the right choice for me. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
-Andy
I think any manual trans swap (especially a T56) is going to be a lot more time and money than an overdrive auto. You are going to have to adapt the T56 hydraulics to the car which can be a lot of work to get it right. I was lucky enough to be able to buy a bolt-in T56 hydraulic kit for my '68 Camaro. There are enough guys out there doing the swap that the aftermarket has responded. Even if you went with a good 5 speed overdrive (like the TKO), you will have to figure out how to get the clutch linkage right. Probably not an easy bolt in deal.
I am not a fan of the 700-R4. They have their many weaknesses, but CAN be built to hold up. Like someone said, they have a wide gear spread which can hurt performance. If I were going to do an older style automatic swap into my car, I would go with a built 200-4R. They also have their problems when stock, but the aftermarket has all that covered. There are guys with Grand Nationsals running 9's with them, so I think that's proof enough. They have better gear ratios, and are a direct bolt-in for a TH-350 (no driveshaft mods needed, I think). You might want to check out California Performance Transmission (www.cpttransmission.com). This is Art Carr's new trans company, and they specialize in the 200-4R.
As far as superchargers go, I don't think it is going to be your best choice. I don't think you will get vintage look you want, and it can get expensive. You will want to build a blower-specific, low compression short block to handle it. You will also need a dedicated blow-through carb (good ones cost $$$), or EFI. With the weight of your car, I don't think it is needed. Like I said before, 430 hp in a little kit car is plenty fast. You can get that out of a mild, reliable 350. Honestly, I think that is all the power you need.
If the motor runs well now, I probably wouldn't worry too much about a rebuild. Do you know how many miles are on the motor? They say if it isn't broken, don't fix it. You could use the rebuild money to go towards better cylinder heads or the overdrive trans.
As far as compression goes, you cannot calculate compression ratio with a compression gauge. Cranking compression can vary greatly due to camshaft duration and displacment. The only way to get your true compression ratio is by making measurments and crunching the numbers. If you are going to have a reputable engine shop do the motor work, they should be able to measure the deck height and piston relief sizes (after the heads are removed) , and figure out what combustion chamber size you will need for the desired compression. Cranking compression WILL tell you if the engine is healthy though. It would be a good idea to do this before you tear down the engine.
Another thing to think about is this: If you build up the 350, you can always step up to fuel injection in the future as your budget allows. Slap a standard 4 barrel carb & intake on it for now, and enjoy it. You can get the multi-carb or EFI system later.
I feel your pain. I changed my mind more than a few times before I actually bought a new motor. It went from a N/A 383 to a Procharged 383, to a N/A 434, and finally to my Magnacharged LS1. I bought the LS1 before I could change my mind again, and I think I made the right choice for me. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
-Andy
The local transmission shop I've spoken to claims they can build a very tough 700R4, which can be re-geared to my car and driving habits. They'll guarantee it for one year and unlimited mileage with no questions asked. They'll do the swap for $1600 (plus the cost of drive shaft shortening) and will customize the gears for minimal extra charge. I think they said $200-300 extra if I change them all... less for fewer changes. Given the correct differential ratio, only changing 2nd and 4th is really necessary, I guess. I've been hearing that 2nd gear is just a bit too high, which is detrimental to 1/4 mile ET?? Too, a .5:1 OD is very nice to have if you've geared 1-3 for the 1/4 mile. I dunno... I'm still trying to piece all this together before I start spending my $$$. Am I missing the target with the gearing? I want to reserve 4th gear for highway speeds so I can afford to drive this thing
I've heard good and bad about both the 700R4 (4L60) and the 2004R transmissions. I've been reading that the 2004R has a weak shaft and some other components, which can break under too much torque. Of course the older 700R4's do too. I must find a good year/build and a knowledgable/reputible shop whichever one I choose. I've seriously considered a 4L80E, but they're very heavy, costly, and require an ECU... even more $$$. Can you point me in the direction of some forums?
Okay... you've convinced me that a SC is overkill. Your words rhyme with others with real-world experience and common sense. I'm happy with this decision as it will save me a ton of money and will simplify things. I like win-win deals!!
The motor is said to run fine. In fact the seller tells me it's "scary fast"... a term overused these days, IMO. He claimed less than 7K on this rebuild at the time he placed the ad. He now says the car definitely has less than $10K on it. That said... the speedo/odo doesn't work. I know that it's experienced one blown head gasket... it's okay, things like this do happen. BUT... the build sheet the seller FAX'ed me is undeniable proof that the builder had NO IDEA what he was doing. This worries me. I could take a chance and just improve the top-end and exhaust so it'll pump some air. BUT... I will always worry I'm going to blow the thing apart, especially when I punch the nitrous. Maybe I should stop fretting and just give it a try???
You're right... I can dirve and enjoy the car now and do the nifty induction system later. This is exactly what I intend to do. But... the moment I find what I want... I'm emptying my wallet
BTW, I may have found a solution to my induction system dilemna. I'm buying some valve covers from a guy up in Canada, who owns a Ferrari kit car like mine. His has a custom cold air intake system that's functional, simple, inexpensive, and has a sixties-ish vintage tech appeal. It looks absolutely nothing like the original Ferrari but that's okay. It's not precisely the look I want, but I think I can modify it a bit... and make it a bit larger for better air flow. I'm thinking oval shaped or rectangular with rounded corners. I'll add the "Ferrari" script on top and give it a polished finish with Rossa red background to match the valve covers. I could go with simple dual quad carbs/intake and build either twin carb tops as shown in the pic below (two of these) or with a single one as described above. If I opt for two separate carb tops, the L/R cold air tubes would each supply one carb. Below is a pic of the cold air intake on the 250 GTO replica up north.
Regarding the final choice of power-plant... I'm still so c-on-fluzed-ed
Last edited by Mike1234; 06-11-2006 at 12:19 PM. Reason: I'm still an idiot...
06-11-2006, 09:31 PM
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I don't think I've ever heard of alternate gear ratios for the 700R4. I know you can get alternate (aftermarket) gear ratios for the TH400 (and the 4L80E), a couple of choices for Powerglides, and I think there might be an alternate set for the Th350 (although I'm not sure).
And the ratios change for most gears, its tough to change just one ratio in a planetary type transmission (which an auto is).
For example, the TH400 (and 4L80E) have 1st: 2.48:1, 2nd: 1.48: 1, and 3rd: 1:1 (and 4th is .75:1). The low gear ratio set changes that to 1st: 2.75:1, 2nd: 1.57:1, and 3rd remains 1:1 (direct drive, no gearset, and 4th gear in 4L80E is unchanged at .75:1).
I would suggest you dig a little bit on this subject. If the shop is shooting straight and there are alternate ratios available, you need to figure out if they'll do you any good. And if the shop isn't shooting straight, you need to find another shop to do the work. Run, don't walk away.
'JustDreamin'
And the ratios change for most gears, its tough to change just one ratio in a planetary type transmission (which an auto is).
For example, the TH400 (and 4L80E) have 1st: 2.48:1, 2nd: 1.48: 1, and 3rd: 1:1 (and 4th is .75:1). The low gear ratio set changes that to 1st: 2.75:1, 2nd: 1.57:1, and 3rd remains 1:1 (direct drive, no gearset, and 4th gear in 4L80E is unchanged at .75:1).
I would suggest you dig a little bit on this subject. If the shop is shooting straight and there are alternate ratios available, you need to figure out if they'll do you any good. And if the shop isn't shooting straight, you need to find another shop to do the work. Run, don't walk away.
'JustDreamin'
06-12-2006, 08:49 AM
#54
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Transmission re-gearing
Originally Posted by JustDreamin
I don't think I've ever heard of alternate gear ratios for the 700R4. I know you can get alternate (aftermarket) gear ratios for the TH400 (and the 4L80E), a couple of choices for Powerglides, and I think there might be an alternate set for the Th350 (although I'm not sure).
And the ratios change for most gears, its tough to change just one ratio in a planetary type transmission (which an auto is).
For example, the TH400 (and 4L80E) have 1st: 2.48:1, 2nd: 1.48: 1, and 3rd: 1:1 (and 4th is .75:1). The low gear ratio set changes that to 1st: 2.75:1, 2nd: 1.57:1, and 3rd remains 1:1 (direct drive, no gearset, and 4th gear in 4L80E is unchanged at .75:1).
I would suggest you dig a little bit on this subject. If the shop is shooting straight and there are alternate ratios available, you need to figure out if they'll do you any good. And if the shop isn't shooting straight, you need to find another shop to do the work. Run, don't walk away.
'JustDreamin'
And the ratios change for most gears, its tough to change just one ratio in a planetary type transmission (which an auto is).
For example, the TH400 (and 4L80E) have 1st: 2.48:1, 2nd: 1.48: 1, and 3rd: 1:1 (and 4th is .75:1). The low gear ratio set changes that to 1st: 2.75:1, 2nd: 1.57:1, and 3rd remains 1:1 (direct drive, no gearset, and 4th gear in 4L80E is unchanged at .75:1).
I would suggest you dig a little bit on this subject. If the shop is shooting straight and there are alternate ratios available, you need to figure out if they'll do you any good. And if the shop isn't shooting straight, you need to find another shop to do the work. Run, don't walk away.
'JustDreamin'
I remember where I heard about raising 4th gear. This was from a mechanic in New Mexico. The guy from whom I bought the car suggested I hire for this mechanic for the transmission swap. For other reasons, after speaking with him, I opted to wait on any other mechanical work until I have the car here.
You're right on all points about researching this further.
QUESTIONS... Given the differences in gear ratios, is the 2004R better than the 700R4 for that reason? If so, the same is true for the 4L80E. I've read that the 2004R can be built strong enough to handle 600 HP and 500 pound-feet of torque for reasonable $$$. I'm certain the 4L80E will take the punishment, since it's basically a TH400 w/ OD. I have experience with the TH400 and know it to be nearly bullet-proof. In this light, the 4L80E is appealing due to the "install it and forever forget it" factor. But again, the price and weight are issues to me. I suppose a manual shift version is okay... this would save the cost the control unit. Most people suggest the 700R4 for the lower weight, low 1st gear, relatively low cost, and they're easy to find. Is the lower first gear and subsequent wider gear spacing more of a detriment to 1/4 mile ET? BTW, I hate doing things more than once... I'd rather spend a bit extra to simplify things and ensure a one time deal. With these things in mind is your suggestion still a 2004R?
Twenty-five years ago I would have known most of what I want to to. Everything has changed just enough in the last quarter century to cause some dilemnas. Since I'm looking into so many different mods, this is like throwing myself in the middle of the ocean to teach myself how to swim. Fortunately, I have two life rafts to save me from drowning in my own ignorance and stupidity... (1) help from good folks on forums like this, and (2) ..............h-e-s...i...t-a...t-i-o-n...
Last edited by Mike1234; 06-12-2006 at 11:30 AM.
06-12-2006, 10:14 AM
#55
Originally Posted by Mike1234
Thanks 93Polo. I didn't mean to sound ungrateful because I'm truly grateful for your input. I failed to clarify how I would implement a SC should I opt for one. It would have to be adapted to the intake system of choice. This could be eight individual throttle boddies with some sort of custom manifold adapters (one each side) with integrated intercoolers to accept input from the SC... or some other funky idea. I don't know yet. If I decide to go the far-out & funky Super Adapt-A-SuperCharger thingy (I probably won't), it'll be something completely original. That's for certain
You may find this interesting:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/advanced-engineering-tech/515995-multiple-tb-questions.html
06-12-2006, 10:58 AM
#56
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Other people's $$$
Originally Posted by 93Polo
Not a problem at all. It is always more fun spending someone else's $$$
You may find this interesting:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=515995
You may find this interesting:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=515995
06-16-2006, 09:01 PM
#57
Mike,
I didn't read all three pages so I'm not sure if what I'm posting has been covered, but since I'm finishing up my '75 LT1/T56 280Z, I thought I'd put in my .02:
This is a great setup. The engine bay of the S30 Z car is made for a V8. It is SO much easier to get access to the motor that it has made me think about dumping my Trans Am with its partially hidden
motor. There is so much room that I'm running a early 90s GM van radiator and the excellent Lincoln MK 8 electric fan that should have a government warning label since it can suck small animals from roadside 
(AC & cooling are big issues for me here in FL).
The T56 in a Z car is made easy due to the use of a T5 type slave cylinder with a bleeder. You can also use the regular LT1 cylinder, I did & it is a little more difficult to bleed. Summit sells a part (expensive at like $40+) that adapts the slave so you can run a braided hose with an AN fitting. You will also want to run a larger bore Tilton clutch master (bolts right in), and make sure you have a little freeplay in the linkage once it is bled (ask me how I found out about this ).
I would put a T56 into anything I have if I could (I've even looked at the C5 transaxle for the Corvair
).
The swap was very easy thanks to Mike at Jags That Run and also the HybridZ website (not sure if anyone here has mentioned it). It is a very well managed mature website loaded with info. If you end up going this route, I can help you with wiring the LT1 harness/plugs into your Datsun, I have a diagram that covers most of the bases and can save you hundreds of dollars.
I was so sold on this setup that I was going to go the same route in my '88 Supra, but then I found the T56 was too wide to clear the trans tunnel. Somehow, I stumbled across this website & have learned a lot about the LSX motors. So much so that I ended up buying one, a 32K mile 5.3L truck motor in my town at a junkyard for $400. Yes, it was a complete motor less accessories (PS/AC/ALT) from intake to oil pan. It even had the electronic TB and a wiring harness that could have been easily repaired. I found some excellent deals here for the accessories and will probably have around $1000 in the motor when I'm done. Keep in mind this motor in stock form has more HP (285~295) than the early LT1 (275). The best deal I found on an LT1/T56 here in FL was $1700.
I'm at the point where I need a tranny, and my original plan was to use a Supra Turbo 5 speed (R154) but I keep getting messed around with by people (kids) supposedly selling them. For this reason, I'm considering a TKO 500 or 600, which would be a lot more expensive but looks like it will fit my tunnel OK. There is also an issue with getting a clutch disk for the LSX/Toyo setup.
Good luck with your swap, it sounds like it is a great concept.
I didn't read all three pages so I'm not sure if what I'm posting has been covered, but since I'm finishing up my '75 LT1/T56 280Z, I thought I'd put in my .02:
This is a great setup. The engine bay of the S30 Z car is made for a V8. It is SO much easier to get access to the motor that it has made me think about dumping my Trans Am with its partially hidden
motor. There is so much room that I'm running a early 90s GM van radiator and the excellent Lincoln MK 8 electric fan that should have a government warning label since it can suck small animals from roadside (AC & cooling are big issues for me here in FL). The T56 in a Z car is made easy due to the use of a T5 type slave cylinder with a bleeder. You can also use the regular LT1 cylinder, I did & it is a little more difficult to bleed. Summit sells a part (expensive at like $40+) that adapts the slave so you can run a braided hose with an AN fitting. You will also want to run a larger bore Tilton clutch master (bolts right in), and make sure you have a little freeplay in the linkage once it is bled (ask me how I found out about this
). I would put a T56 into anything I have if I could (I've even looked at the C5 transaxle for the Corvair
). The swap was very easy thanks to Mike at Jags That Run and also the HybridZ website (not sure if anyone here has mentioned it). It is a very well managed mature website loaded with info. If you end up going this route, I can help you with wiring the LT1 harness/plugs into your Datsun, I have a diagram that covers most of the bases and can save you hundreds of dollars.
I was so sold on this setup that I was going to go the same route in my '88 Supra, but then I found the T56 was too wide to clear the trans tunnel. Somehow, I stumbled across this website & have learned a lot about the LSX motors. So much so that I ended up buying one, a 32K mile 5.3L truck motor in my town at a junkyard for $400. Yes, it was a complete motor less accessories (PS/AC/ALT) from intake to oil pan. It even had the electronic TB and a wiring harness that could have been easily repaired. I found some excellent deals here for the accessories and will probably have around $1000 in the motor when I'm done. Keep in mind this motor in stock form has more HP (285~295) than the early LT1 (275). The best deal I found on an LT1/T56 here in FL was $1700.
I'm at the point where I need a tranny, and my original plan was to use a Supra Turbo 5 speed (R154) but I keep getting messed around with by people (kids) supposedly selling them. For this reason, I'm considering a TKO 500 or 600, which would be a lot more expensive but looks like it will fit my tunnel OK. There is also an issue with getting a clutch disk for the LSX/Toyo setup.
Good luck with your swap, it sounds like it is a great concept.
06-16-2006, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by V8 Supra Builder
Mike,
I didn't read all three pages so I'm not sure if what I'm posting has been covered, but since I'm finishing up my '75 LT1/T56 280Z, I thought I'd put in my .02:
This is a great setup. The engine bay of the S30 Z car is made for a V8. It is SO much easier to get access to the motor that it has made me think about dumping my Trans Am with its partially hidden motor. There is so much room that I'm running a early 90s GM van radiator and the excellent Lincoln MK 8 electric fan that should have a government warning label since it can suck small animals from roadside (AC & cooling are big issues for me here in FL).
The T56 in a Z car is made easy due to the use of a T5 type slave cylinder with a bleeder. You can also use the regular LT1 cylinder, I did & it is a little more difficult to bleed. Summit sells a part (expensive at like $40+) that adapts the slave so you can run a braided hose with an AN fitting. You will also want to run a larger bore Tilton clutch master (bolts right in), and make sure you have a little freeplay in the linkage once it is bled (ask me how I found out about this ).
I would put a T56 into anything I have if I could (I've even looked at the C5 transaxle for the Corvair).
The swap was very easy thanks to Mike at Jags That Run and also the HybridZ website (not sure if anyone here has mentioned it). It is a very well managed mature website loaded with info. If you end up going this route, I can help you with wiring the LT1 harness/plugs into your Datsun, I have a diagram that covers most of the bases and can save you hundreds of dollars.
I was so sold on this setup that I was going to go the same route in my '88 Supra, but then I found the T56 was too wide to clear the trans tunnel. Somehow, I stumbled across this website & have learned a lot about the LSX motors. So much so that I ended up buying one, a 32K mile 5.3L truck motor in my town at a junkyard for $400. Yes, it was a complete motor less accessories (PS/AC/ALT) from intake to oil pan. It even had the electronic TB and a wiring harness that could have been easily repaired. I found some excellent deals here for the accessories and will probably have around $1000 in the motor when I'm done. Keep in mind this motor in stock form has more HP (285~295) than the early LT1 (275). The best deal I found on an LT1/T56 here in FL was $1700.
I'm at the point where I need a tranny, and my original plan was to use a Supra Turbo 5 speed (R154) but I keep getting messed around with by people (kids) supposedly selling them. For this reason, I'm considering a TKO 500 or 600, which would be a lot more expensive but looks like it will fit my tunnel OK. There is also an issue with getting a clutch disk for the LSX/Toyo setup.
Good luck with your swap, it sounds like it is a great concept.
I didn't read all three pages so I'm not sure if what I'm posting has been covered, but since I'm finishing up my '75 LT1/T56 280Z, I thought I'd put in my .02:
This is a great setup. The engine bay of the S30 Z car is made for a V8. It is SO much easier to get access to the motor that it has made me think about dumping my Trans Am with its partially hidden
motor. There is so much room that I'm running a early 90s GM van radiator and the excellent Lincoln MK 8 electric fan that should have a government warning label since it can suck small animals from roadside (AC & cooling are big issues for me here in FL). The T56 in a Z car is made easy due to the use of a T5 type slave cylinder with a bleeder. You can also use the regular LT1 cylinder, I did & it is a little more difficult to bleed. Summit sells a part (expensive at like $40+) that adapts the slave so you can run a braided hose with an AN fitting. You will also want to run a larger bore Tilton clutch master (bolts right in), and make sure you have a little freeplay in the linkage once it is bled (ask me how I found out about this
). I would put a T56 into anything I have if I could (I've even looked at the C5 transaxle for the Corvair
). The swap was very easy thanks to Mike at Jags That Run and also the HybridZ website (not sure if anyone here has mentioned it). It is a very well managed mature website loaded with info. If you end up going this route, I can help you with wiring the LT1 harness/plugs into your Datsun, I have a diagram that covers most of the bases and can save you hundreds of dollars.
I was so sold on this setup that I was going to go the same route in my '88 Supra, but then I found the T56 was too wide to clear the trans tunnel. Somehow, I stumbled across this website & have learned a lot about the LSX motors. So much so that I ended up buying one, a 32K mile 5.3L truck motor in my town at a junkyard for $400. Yes, it was a complete motor less accessories (PS/AC/ALT) from intake to oil pan. It even had the electronic TB and a wiring harness that could have been easily repaired. I found some excellent deals here for the accessories and will probably have around $1000 in the motor when I'm done. Keep in mind this motor in stock form has more HP (285~295) than the early LT1 (275). The best deal I found on an LT1/T56 here in FL was $1700.
I'm at the point where I need a tranny, and my original plan was to use a Supra Turbo 5 speed (R154) but I keep getting messed around with by people (kids) supposedly selling them. For this reason, I'm considering a TKO 500 or 600, which would be a lot more expensive but looks like it will fit my tunnel OK. There is also an issue with getting a clutch disk for the LSX/Toyo setup.
Good luck with your swap, it sounds like it is a great concept.
Is the T56 swap easy enough that I can hire a good mechanic to do the job without mortgaging my home? Any idea what I should expect to pay for labor?
I was going to post a question regarding a fair price for a low mile LS1, but you've already answered my question... $400... way to go!! Someone offered to sell me a 12K LS1 complete for $3000. He seems to be a nice guy but, if I can buy one for under $1K, that's no contest.
I've heard that I can squeeze about 450 RWHP from an LS1 by adding an LS6 intake and heads... or porting/polishing the LS1 heads. I've also been told that I can safely run 100 HP nitrous with great regularity with no short term or long term ill effects. I wonder about the nitrous because I understood that one must use forged pistons, hardened rods, etc. with any nitrous. What is your opinion?
Thanks again!!
06-16-2006, 11:00 PM
#59
Thanks for your comments.
I can't advise on hiring a mechanic or labor, I really dislike other people... working on my vehicles. Are there any car clubs in your area? A good "bud" can be invaluable for this type of project.
Please note the $400 is NOT for an LS1! The LS1 is an aluminum block and costs a lot more used than do the iron block truck motors. The 5.3L were the most popular motors, being installed in trucks at a rate of 2:1 as compared to the 6.0L or the 4.8. The LS1 pullouts on Ebay seem to go for $2500 to 3000 plus shipping.
As far as power, between this site & the affiliate Performance Trucks (link on main page), you will find a wealth of expertise on modding the 5.3 with heads/cam/intake to get a lot of power. Also worth reading is the LS1-LS6 Performance book, can't remember the author (Will Handzell- spelling?), but I'm sure someone here will jump in. They took a stock 4.8 with 42# injectors, pumped up the fuel pressure to 80 and at 8psi and a 67mm turbo made over 600# torque & over 500 HP!
I'm going a similar route on my swap, just not to that extreme.
I'm not a fan of the gas, I like to not have to worry about refilling my power adder.
I can't advise on hiring a mechanic or labor, I really dislike other people... working on my vehicles. Are there any car clubs in your area? A good "bud" can be invaluable for this type of project.
Please note the $400 is NOT for an LS1! The LS1 is an aluminum block and costs a lot more used than do the iron block truck motors. The 5.3L were the most popular motors, being installed in trucks at a rate of 2:1 as compared to the 6.0L or the 4.8. The LS1 pullouts on Ebay seem to go for $2500 to 3000 plus shipping.
As far as power, between this site & the affiliate Performance Trucks (link on main page), you will find a wealth of expertise on modding the 5.3 with heads/cam/intake to get a lot of power. Also worth reading is the LS1-LS6 Performance book, can't remember the author (Will Handzell- spelling?), but I'm sure someone here will jump in. They took a stock 4.8 with 42# injectors, pumped up the fuel pressure to 80 and at 8psi and a 67mm turbo made over 600# torque & over 500 HP!
I'm going a similar route on my swap, just not to that extreme.I'm not a fan of the gas, I like to not have to worry about refilling my power adder.
06-16-2006, 11:33 PM
#60
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LS1/T56 Swap
Originally Posted by V8 Supra Builder
Thanks for your comments.
I can't advise on hiring a mechanic or labor, I really dislike other people... working on my vehicles. Are there any car clubs in your area? A good "bud" can be invaluable for this type of project.
Please note the $400 is NOT for an LS1! The LS1 is an aluminum block and costs a lot more used than do the iron block truck motors. The 5.3L were the most popular motors, being installed in trucks at a rate of 2:1 as compared to the 6.0L or the 4.8. The LS1 pullouts on Ebay seem to go for $2500 to 3000 plus shipping.
As far as power, between this site & the affiliate Performance Trucks (link on main page), you will find a wealth of expertise on modding the 5.3 with heads/cam/intake to get a lot of power. Also worth reading is the LS1-LS6 Performance book, can't remember the author (Will Handzell- spelling?), but I'm sure someone here will jump in. They took a stock 4.8 with 42# injectors, pumped up the fuel pressure to 80 and at 8psi and a 67mm turbo made over 600# torque & over 500 HP! I'm going a similar route on my swap, just not to that extreme.
I'm not a fan of the gas, I like to not have to worry about refilling my power adder.
I can't advise on hiring a mechanic or labor, I really dislike other people... working on my vehicles. Are there any car clubs in your area? A good "bud" can be invaluable for this type of project.
Please note the $400 is NOT for an LS1! The LS1 is an aluminum block and costs a lot more used than do the iron block truck motors. The 5.3L were the most popular motors, being installed in trucks at a rate of 2:1 as compared to the 6.0L or the 4.8. The LS1 pullouts on Ebay seem to go for $2500 to 3000 plus shipping.
As far as power, between this site & the affiliate Performance Trucks (link on main page), you will find a wealth of expertise on modding the 5.3 with heads/cam/intake to get a lot of power. Also worth reading is the LS1-LS6 Performance book, can't remember the author (Will Handzell- spelling?), but I'm sure someone here will jump in. They took a stock 4.8 with 42# injectors, pumped up the fuel pressure to 80 and at 8psi and a 67mm turbo made over 600# torque & over 500 HP!
I'm going a similar route on my swap, just not to that extreme.I'm not a fan of the gas, I like to not have to worry about refilling my power adder.
So $3K plus shipping is the going price for a low mile LS1... ouch. I guess this doesn't sound too bad if I figure another $2K in parts (not counting exhaust) and I should have the performance I seek. It'll cost at least $5K to rebuild this Gen1 SBC to approach the LS1's performance and I think the LS1 has a better power band for this light-weight car, yes?
Regarding nitrous: I may never bother with it. It depends on how scarey the car is without it
As a minimum, I'd really like a mid 11 sec 1/4 mile car with a top-end of 180 MPH or so. I'd never use the latter of course, but it's nice to brag about... and it might mean something to a buyer should I ever sell the car.