MattP

Do you think a 3.73 rear would be a bit better? What size tires are you running? Did you try to find a flange that would work with an M3 diff?

I am working on an E36 track car w/ LS1 power. Not too worried about integrating the electrics b/c it is a dedicated track . What thickness header flanges did you use? I can get a couple of different thickness. I figured I would go with the thickest. Some motor mount pics would be great. Thanks and your project looks great.

Justin

 

I bought a few pieces from Mike: mounts, headers, radiator, driveshaft and thought it was a deal for what he provided. I actually told Mike that his kit was under priced and since it was a limited market he should charge something closer to 10k with $4-5K kit option with shorty headers... he really doesn't make much on a $6k kit.

 

Excellent work MattP.

On just about any project elbo grease can substituted for cash. As more people do the swap and information becomes more available the DIY'ers will find ways to do this swap cheap.

Thaniel

 

I just wanted to point out that BMW sold 2.3 million E36 and Mazda sold 15,000 3rd gens. Yet I can buy a kit that has significantly more fabrication than the BMW kits for less money. If Nash or Vorshlag or anyone else wants to sell at the price, go for it. It doesn't look like a whole lot of people are snatching them up. Granny's and Hinson seem to do a lot better volume with a lower cost on an more rare platform. I would buy a good header from someone like Sanderson if they were less than a $1000. They were a serious pain in the *** to make. I will repeat that was the only part that required serious fabrication on this swap. The rest was eighth grade shop.

I never found a flange for the 6 bolt M3 yoke. I don't believe it was necessary considering most American and even the Toyota use the four bolt style with higher torque inputs. YMMV. I never found a 3.73 for any price on ebay or the JY's. I won't pay 1600-2000 that performance gearing wants for a 3.73 rebuild. There are 3.64 sometimes available on ebay. Don't take the next one, its mine. I use a 25" tall Kumho Ecsta MX right now. IIRC it is slightly shorter than the Corvette, but the Corvette runs a 3.46 gear. My experience with gear changes and the effect that it has on performance is limited. Take it with a grain of salt. With the 3.23, I am only spinning the engine at ~1500 in 6th at 70mph. 3.91 is about 1900. The deep overdrive really helps with using any rear gear you want.

Header flanges were standard GM part number. Less than 3/8", but I never measured them. I haven't had a flange leak yet.

Why do you believe the FD or the 944 are better?

I have completed two FD's for friends and my own E36. I can tell you without reservation that the E36 was far easier than the FD. I also believe you get a far more complicated kit from Hinson or Granny's for less money.

 

As this swap get more popular, the price on those kits will go down.

 

I will never use 6th gear on the track due to its over-over drive. I guess there are many options for regearing the trans. I haven't really done too much research on that yet.
Justin

 

If you are going to do that, go to a 5 speed. There aren't too many tracks that can take advantage of a 6 speed when the LS1 has so much available torque. The T56 is a hoss. I don't know for a fact, but I ***ume that the 5 speeds out there lighter.

Matt

 

Are you talking about a T5? I am not too familiar with either the T56 or the T5. I have been told the T56 is a bit beefier. Is this correct? If I can get a strong 5 speed I would sell the T56.
Justin

 

The T56 is much stronger than a T5.

 

The T5 is a week trans, something like 300 ft/lbs if your lucky, the next step up is a T5Z, maybe 350 ft/lbs. Both trans were made by Borg Warner, the T56 is a whole different animal made to handle 500 plus ft/lbs. The trongest 5 speed would be the TKO 600 with a rating of 600 ft/lbs made by Tremec. Tremec bought out Borg Warner a few years back so they are called Tremec, T5, T5Z, T56, TKO500 & TKO 600 respectively. They are many variations of the T56. The Viper, F bodies, Vettes, Mustang Cobras, various Aussie GM cars and the most interesting would be the one used by Aston Martin where it used a setup similar to BMW's SMG and Ferrari's F1 trans. Hope this helps.

 

Nice progress on the conversion! I can't wait to see it completed.

If you keep the F-body style LS1 T56 (2.66 1st gear) and add a .83 5th gear you have a close ratio box. 26" rear tire and 7300rpm redline puts you around 145mph redline in 4th (1:1). You can even remove 6th for less parasitic hp loss.. but it is nice to have when cruising. The 2.66 1st gear style T56 with basic mods (carbon blockers, steel shift forks, upgraded synchros) is rated at 650 ft/lbs tq.

With a Viper 30T billet shaft and a few other upgrades the T56 can withstand a gangload of power (there are 3500lbs+ twin turbo Vipers running 8's@165mph+ with them. One is in the high 7's rowing the gears).

T56 weighs approx 140lbs dry.

Of note- Sanderson/JTR long tube LS1/RX-7 headers are around $800 and are coated mild steel. They are actually pretty light and after 20K miles mine held up nicely. The did dull quite a bit but the coating remained on them. BTW- I live 1 block from the beach, but do park the car inside. Nonetheless things still rust in my garage..... The headers looked fine.

 

I have been checking around and it looks like I am going to go with either a Jerico or a Tex T101. Straight cut gears, dogs instead of syncros and clutchless shifting. Anyone need a T56?

Justin

 

I think the $6500 is a ripoff and just one more reason I built an LS1FC. of course now I'd love to have a sedan so a BMW swap is an idea of mine but I dont think I'll even go that route because the nicer BMWs that are clean around here are all '96/obdII which adds complexity to the swap in NYS that I dont want to bother with.

but a '95 M3 sedan with an LS2T56 swap, now THAT would be a nice nice car, even a good family hauler! hell even a 5 series could be a nicer faster more fun car with an LS1T56 under the hood

 

There was no M3 sedan until 97. All 95 M3s are coupes. You can convert them to OBD1. A bit involved but possible.
Justin

 

Vorshlag should be comming out with a kit this year. Word is that it will be $3000-$5000 depending on options.

Check it out!

http://www.vorshlag.com/ls1bmw0.php

 

I have been reading all of your replies and I just can't see why most of you are complaining! I happen to be The FIRST person to buy the kit from Mike Collins at Nash Motorsports about a year and a half ago and have been driving my car Daily since, and his kit has only gotten better!!! First off, the kit IS well worth the money with COMPLETE instructions including pictures so anyone can do it. Second, I did my swap in a barn with a concrete floor and one extension cord for a light, and my own basic tools. Third, I have had no problems with anything other than the Rear Subframe Reinforcement which was my fault anyways. You want to talk about a painless kit, this is it!

Besides, I have been waiting for Vorshlag to come out with their kit for 2 1/2 years and they Still aren't done!!!

For those of you complaining about the price of the kit, just imagine how much it costs to put an M3 engine in a non-M3 car (or even buy an M3 car) and then assuming that it hasn't been beaten to death by the previous owner, (which it probably has because that's the point of having an M3 in the first place) buy some aftermarket parts to boost the horsepower just to come close to the LS1 and you are easily looking at double the price!!!

For those of you interested in the LS1 swap kit, if you have any more questions just PM me. Otherwise, this is supposed to be a thread for people that want to know more about the swap, not for complaints about the price of something done strictly out of passion for love of these cars and these motors! If you want a really cheap fast car, look somewhere else.

Luke

 

$6500 + $3-4000(ls1/ls2 swap) = around 10 grand ! + labor !

E36 m3's can be had for less than that.... yeah the whole car...

Gee I wonder why there is only a few guyz with this kit...

 

Theres a reason the RX7 swaps are so popular. Its easy to find an RX7 with a blown motor for half of the book or street value. Non running second gens are worth nearly nothing. Parts for the swap are far cheaper (and similar in design). You can get custom long tubes for $900. The bolt in engine mounts (similar to the E36) are $375. Where does the extra cost for the E36 come from? I'd say its lack of market competition, not custom fab.

I'd love to do a LS1 BMW, but its just not worth it.

 

For anyone with a E-36 non M3 car, we got stuck with a full set of the bad boy brakes from StopTech for a customer that backed out. Our cost was over 4K and we will let them go for $2750. That's a pure loss for us but we need to move them. PM me for details.

If you do an LS1 swap you might need this to slow down...

 

I hear you there. I did an engine swap (not an ls1) on a 91 rx-7. Bought the car for $500 with a blown motor. With very little effort I Sold a few parts so the net chassis cost was less than $100. The BMW on the other hand was hard to get ahold of. I spent $1600 on the chassis and it is in a little rougher shape than the Rx-7 I bought (although it does run with a 200K mile engine). Also I'm not likely to be able to sell the BMW drivetrain for squat