MCMLXIX

MSD has a new controller ...

http://www.msdignition.com/new_products/2240.html

MEFISTUFF

mefi4 is not a new controller, new 2 painless ,yes, but we've using them for 5 years.They will run distrib,ls1, ls2-ls7,ecotec,northstar, shortstar, etc. Questions, give me a call, Steve 909 910 3867

PainlessTexas

Pardon my late arrival at the party. I just joined LS1Tech. My name is Gary Wright, National Sales Manager for Painless. Wanted to identify myself so you know who's speaking and my obvious prejudice for our product.

P.S. I am not an engineer so I may have to consult one of ours for correct answers.... Incorrect answers are free of charge.

I'll toss in a few comments on some of the prior postings. Please feel free to ask questions.

The PERFECT system does use the MEFI4 ECM developed by Delphi. The original MEFI3 was for marine applications. The MEFI4 will run a variety of land bound engines (4, 6, 8 and 10 cyl). It will support all the sensors and funtions for a vehicle application including an O2 sensor for proper air/fuel ratios. Although some of the people building sand rail engines install the MEFI4 without an O2 sensor. For the life of me I cannot figure out why you would take out the sensor responsible for monitoring air/fuel ratio.

Our ECM is programmed using InGenius software, the same used by UMI Racing and others. The main difference we brought to the table was the amount of time we spent fine tuning the programming. Our goal is to make the trasnsplanted LS motor run as good as it did in the vehicle it was installed in originally. We see many EFI controllers out there. They may be great for 1/4 mile runs at WOT. But they stumble badly on a trip to 7-11 on a cold winter morning. We have literally hundreds of hours of testing on engine dynos and in test vehicles to fine tune the programming.

The MEFI4 will not run an electronic automatic transmission. It can run throttle by wire with the addition of a module. But we have elected to pass on this....we have other plans for etrans and TBW.

The PERFECT system includes a MEFI4 ECM and engine specific harness. It is preprogrammed out of the box to run a stock engine. No programming is needed....it's already been done. The MEFI4 is a fully programmable ECM. IF you want to make engine maodifactions you can purchase the Perfection CalTool. CalTool allows you to modify the programming for engine modifications. But if you want to run a stock LSx motor you won't need it.

We also sell harnesses that use the factory ECM. But on the LSx motors you will need to get the ECM flashed to elimnate fault codes. So when you add the harness cost and flash programing costs you are getting close to the price of the PERFECT sytem. Each person will need to look at their situation and determine how they want to proceed.

I won't go into other options or start talking about what goes into building our systems cuz I don't want to turn this into a Painless commercial. Go to our web site for more info. I just wanted to address some of the issues I saw on this thread. Please feel free to call our Tech Hotline with any questions - 800 423-9696.

If you have any questions please feel free ask here. I'll be monitoring this site regularly.

Gary

67rsss

iTrader: (4)

I have a whopping $400 invested in modifying my harness and flashing the computer. Our OEM harness and PCM work perfectly, and we haven't had any issue running at +100* or at -15*. It also runs the tach and the speedo, monitors two O2 sensors, can monitor and run AC and auto trans if you have them, and fired right up. Not sure that the physical packaging is worth another $1600 to me.

Jones'n

Yeah, I never understood why all the research and development goes in to making a new and expensive aftermarket controller that runs "as good as it did in the vehicle it was installed in originally" when you can just use the computer from the original vehicle and get the same thing for much less.

John B

iTrader: (10)

Welcome aboard Gary and thanks for the clarifications and being a sponsor of this product!

PainlessTexas

OK.... I'll agree that you can modify a factory harness and flash the OEM computer for less than the cost of our PERFECT system. IF you have the expertise and time. Many don't. We provide an all new harnesss built with OEM connectors that has been tested for continuity and a computer programmed to run correctly right out of the box. We have some of the best techs in the industry to provide support and additional help. And our instructions are by far some of the best in the aftermarket. All this costs money to develop and provide.

We offer a product and convenience. No we aren't the cheapest. We put many hours and dollars into building an EFI system that will perform properly and can be installed by the average person.

Our compact waterproof, proven ECM monitors all the necessary sensors, etc to run the engine properly. The second O2 sensor is an emissions device. If you want to maintian all the emissions equipment you would want to use one of our harnesses for the OEM computer and add the emmissions harness to keep all emissions working. We offer a couple of different options for the builder.

Want to use the factory ECM. No problem. We provide a harness for that as well. It will cost more than a salvage yard harness. But, it won't need any work or modification and it's made with all new OEM parts. We get them from the same place GM does. Plug it in, connect 3-5 wires, plumb the engine and you are good to go.

But just for clairification, there seems to be some confusion on pricing. The street price on the PERFECT System (P/N 65106 - LS1) is nowhere near $2000. But then again.... it's nowhere near $400. It's a choice each person needs to make based on their expertise and available resources. The $2000 price that has been mentioned is probably for the PERFECT system WITH the PERFECTION CalTool software (P/N 65245) included. If your running a stock LS1 you won't need the CalTool. Just wanted to toss that in so we are all talking about the same thing when we are talking price.

We could pull up a couple of chairs and a large ice chest full of Shiner Boch and debate the finer points of cheap versus convenience till the sun comes up. But it's gonna cost more to get new tested parts than used parts that you will need to modify. On that I think we can all agree. Which is better..... Well that debate will consume the ice chest of Shiner.

67rsss

iTrader: (4)

Oh, not meaning to bag on you or your product, just pointing out that some of us can't really afford to start with new everything. My engine came with free programming for life, so that saved me a bit. I know that the wiring is the most intimidating part of this project for most of us, and maybe being an Engineer made it seem easy to me, but I just don't think I could spend $1K plus for a wire harness. Of course, I am so cheap that I made all new harnesses for the car myself rather than pay the prices they go for. $12 in parts to build a $190 harness seems worth it to me. Perhaps not everyone is willing to do that though.

PainlessTexas

$12 in parts to build a $200 harness. Geez we need you here. We bought 17 million feet of wire last year and we can't buy the wire alone for a 12 circuit for $12. :-)

I understand cheap, believe me. Mom always said cheap is not a four lettter word. I just jumped in because some of the numbers being tossed around weren't close to what the product being discussed is selling for on the open market.

Please feel free to jump in with questions or comments. Be glad to answer any I know about and get help with the ones I don't (that's the longer list). Let me ice down that Shiner now.

ls1_chevelle

iTrader: (9)

ouchy wowa. Strong price. I can see this being a product sold for big dollar builds. It's nice to have another option on the market however it seems that this will cater to about 1% of our conversion folks here.

67rsss

iTrader: (4)

I have no idea how much wire and cable we buy each year, but I save all tag ends and floor scrap. Most pieces are around 8'. They cost me nothing. I bought four bulb sockets at $3.00 each. 15 minutes later, new rear body harness for the Camaro. Connections and thriftiness are everything. Not all harness's is the car have a ton of materials invested. I am certain you could have built the same harness for a similiar or better cost, if you didn't include overhead for engineering and labor for the assemblers (my time was free). As for coming to work for ya, I appreciate the offer, but I think I will stick with designing my receivers, not sure I am ready to take on position where I have to interface with the public, the government is a hard enough customer for me!

Oh, and already having the right tools helps. Not knocking the service you provide, but for some of us already have the materials and skills to do the work. Most people are terrified of the wiring, so you provide a safe, reliable product for them.

SANDDEMON08

I am new to this tuning stuff and have a few questions. I guess i dont understand how the speed denisity works.

Without the MAF how can the MEFI4 make adjustments to the AFR with only a reading off the O2 sensors. Is'nt the MAF info required to adjust the AFR. I thought its based on the amount of air in and what is being read at the 02's is how the computer baisis its adjusts.

Brains

iTrader: (7)

You can also control fueling via Speed / Density calculations. Many people switch their factory setup from MAF to SD, and many stock vehicles are produced using SD (my 2007 Charger SRT8, for example).

The MAF gives you a more "direct" and thus easier to obtain measurement of the mass of air entering the engine, but the same value can be derived using some math and the ideal gas law.

SANDDEMON08

Thanks for the insite

Jeep09

is this setup the way to go with the tuning software?

psiconversion

iTrader: (5)

I think sticking with the GM hardware is the way to go. Use a new standalone harness or modify your stock harness, use GM PCM and call it a day. If you need help, that is what the board is for. : )

71 chevy

iTrader: (18)

I used megasquirt on my bbc and I'm going to use it on the lm7 with a msd 6010 controlling spark.
It offers real time tuning.. the box goes for $250 used or $400 new, the relay board is $70, the colorcoded wiring bundle if 40 and injector connectors were $10 for 12 connectors at the junkyard. In my bbc it offered far greater throttle response and idle quality than a carb and all you have to solder up is maybe 5 different connectors for coolant temp,intake temp,o2 sensor,injectors,rpm signal,and tps

7T3LS1

While I used Painless wiring for my instrument cluster, I decided to go with Speartech for my engine wiring and PCM reprogramming because it seemed that the Painless stuff was "one size fits all". I wanted to mount the PCM under the dash and telephoned John at Speartech. We discussed the exact placement of the PCM and what needed to be eliminated from the factory PCM program. He built me a harness that fit perfectly and looks like GM made it. After installing the PCM and harness, the car fired up on the first try with no fault codes and continues to run perfectly.
Just my 2 cents.

poconojoe

iTrader: (43)

And I bet it looked like a nice professional product, with loom and tape on it, not wire ties ever 6" like some high school shop kids made it.

73 trans am

Has anybody heard of a company selling mefi computers called redline performance inc.? I am working on an ls transplant and it is converted to speed density but has no o2s. I have never have ran across a set up like this.