BMW e36 (LSX) project starting point
Here's a pic for some visualization. This looking up right where the steering shaft would go. That's all the room there is. Factory manifolds will be hard to get them to fit. I'd recommend making some mild steel headers even if they are unequal length. I've seen others make some crude but effective ones. Would only be a few hundered $ and a little welding.
If you don't have money then you should have time. If you don't have either then something is really wrong.
If you don't have money then you should have time. If you don't have either then something is really wrong.
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
all this trouble to get the headers and exhaust around the steering shaft....has anyone tried to re-route the steering shaft? Old schoolers and rat rodders have been stuffing big engines into little cars since cars existed. I just picked up a 95 M3 roller, and had a bit of inspiration looking at that bare engine compartment...I might try to "move" the shaft out of the way. I'll post pics when I figure it out.
all this trouble to get the headers and exhaust around the steering shaft....has anyone tried to re-route the steering shaft? Old schoolers and rat rodders have been stuffing big engines into little cars since cars existed. I just picked up a 95 M3 roller, and had a bit of inspiration looking at that bare engine compartment...I might try to "move" the shaft out of the way. I'll post pics when I figure it out.
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
where it starts and where it ends up isn't the problem, its what's in between that's getting in the way. if I can just get it a couple inches towards the framerail it'll give me room to use a blockhugger or a stock vette manny. I'll post pics when I'm done, its tough to explain
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
in an effort to keep this thread alive, I thought I would post some pics of my progress. here's a few pics of the motor mounts....preliminary stage of course, final product will be mocked up as soon as I pick up my new engine.
...this piece here, could possibly be the most important part of my conversion.
can anyone guess its purpose?
...this piece here, could possibly be the most important part of my conversion.
can anyone guess its purpose?
Last edited by monger; Mar 9, 2008 at 12:58 AM.
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
^ ABS pump relocator interesting since there isn't a ton of room to move the pump upwards.
Hardly the most important part of this swap...
Looks like most of your parts were directly copied from the Vorshlag kit, which is in my opinion the best available on the market, by far.
As for using some kind of off the shelf manifold or header, perhaps on the passenger side but nothing is going to work on the drivers side that isn't custom, as has been said many many times. I spend many hours building the header layout for this chassis, not a simple task. Making it fit and also making it work/flow/perform is what separates the men from the boys.
Heat management is also important to consider, which seems to be missing from all the kits I've seen. It will be evident soon for some when parts melt...
Hardly the most important part of this swap...
Looks like most of your parts were directly copied from the Vorshlag kit, which is in my opinion the best available on the market, by far.
As for using some kind of off the shelf manifold or header, perhaps on the passenger side but nothing is going to work on the drivers side that isn't custom, as has been said many many times. I spend many hours building the header layout for this chassis, not a simple task. Making it fit and also making it work/flow/perform is what separates the men from the boys.
Heat management is also important to consider, which seems to be missing from all the kits I've seen. It will be evident soon for some when parts melt...
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Verdad Gallardo Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
that isn't an abs pump relocator, the purpose of that bracket is to have a solid mounting point for a support bearing. that way, I can reroute the steering shaft slightly out of the way. test fit will happen soon. this is what I'm trying to accomplish
installed in the car, factory steering arm in place
arm disconnected, checking new angles
with some nice low profile u-joints and the support bearing, I think I can make the steering shaft clear the manifolds I have in mind. If it doesn't work, I'll be the first to post up my progress here. If it does work, I've just saved myself from buying $3000 headers. I fiond that most people say things wont fit, never actually tried.
installed in the car, factory steering arm in place
arm disconnected, checking new angles
with some nice low profile u-joints and the support bearing, I think I can make the steering shaft clear the manifolds I have in mind. If it doesn't work, I'll be the first to post up my progress here. If it does work, I've just saved myself from buying $3000 headers. I fiond that most people say things wont fit, never actually tried.
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
that isn't an abs pump relocator, the purpose of that bracket is to have a solid mounting point for a support bearing. that way, I can reroute the steering shaft slightly out of the way. test fit will happen soon. this is what I'm trying to accomplish
with some nice low profile u-joints and the support bearing, I think I can make the steering shaft clear the manifolds I have in mind. If it doesn't work, I'll be the first to post up my progress here. If it does work, I've just saved myself from buying $3000 headers. I fiond that most people say things wont fit, never actually tried.
with some nice low profile u-joints and the support bearing, I think I can make the steering shaft clear the manifolds I have in mind. If it doesn't work, I'll be the first to post up my progress here. If it does work, I've just saved myself from buying $3000 headers. I fiond that most people say things wont fit, never actually tried.
The first joint is actually the problem, right out of the fire-wall. You can put the engine in, with the stock brake booster and ABS pump(slightly relocated away from the engine), keep the original steering shaft as is and still build a header system, done that.
As for those of us saying they don't fit, we have actually tried(Terry's post on how many combinations he tried, we tried one, looked at other available choices and came to the conclusion that nothing would fit without major pains elsewhere in the build, the others are repeating what we've said.
It's all about compromise, do you want to end up with the engine sitting too far forward and high up, with a funky steering shaft, major issues with intake clearance, oil pan issues, replaced brake booster, relocating abs pump, just to save a few dollars on headers? At least your trying things but I'll wager you will eventually come to the same conclusion.
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: Ocala, FL
First, subscribed.
Second on the exhaust, this may seem like a stupid idea or something that has been tried, but why not just make more room on the body to fit an aftermarket header? Couldn't you either cut some of the metal off and then weld a new piece that is concaved to allow more clearance? Thought the S2000 guy did that? Could be way off base and I have no exprience with this type of stuff yet but just seemed like an option.
Second on the exhaust, this may seem like a stupid idea or something that has been tried, but why not just make more room on the body to fit an aftermarket header? Couldn't you either cut some of the metal off and then weld a new piece that is concaved to allow more clearance? Thought the S2000 guy did that? Could be way off base and I have no exprience with this type of stuff yet but just seemed like an option.
Just use Sanderson CC1-LS1 block hugger headers. They will clear the stock E36 steering shaft. The last thing you want is sloppy steering; although the 3-ujoint setup would be nice in a frontal crash: not much force possible to be transmitted thru it
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
no go on hacking the car up. Even if it helped in fitting the motor I would'nt do it. I think the motor fits nicely in there as it is, its simply an inconvenient routing of the steering shaft. there are pictures in this thread of an E30 with an ls1, and they managed to get a sanderson header to fit past the shaft. The E30 is a smaller engine compartment, I think the E36 is doable with a more conveniently routed steering shaft. I have no problem running a "funky" steering shaft as long as its strong and safe. I'm not a hack, I've been building cars for a long time. We will find out in a week or two when I finally pickup my drivetrain. Until now, this is all heresay 
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
hi im a long time lurker on this forum reading advice and getting help from other peoples questions.
im doing this swap in england
so all the exhaust and other questions do not affect me as my car is right hand drive so totally different.
up till now i havent felt i could contribute
but now i figured i could put in my 2 pence worth
everybody is worried about what you call the rag joint on the steering shaft by the exhaust
in england our steering shaft runs next to the exhaust so is heat sheilded from bmw
i have had to get rid of these joints for space reasons as on my side i also have a starter motor so i have made a steering shaft without the vibration damper. if you want to use the rag joint maybe this heat sheilded version is the way to go if you are interested i could probably find the part number
im doing this swap in england
so all the exhaust and other questions do not affect me as my car is right hand drive so totally different.
up till now i havent felt i could contribute
but now i figured i could put in my 2 pence worth
everybody is worried about what you call the rag joint on the steering shaft by the exhaust
in england our steering shaft runs next to the exhaust so is heat sheilded from bmw
i have had to get rid of these joints for space reasons as on my side i also have a starter motor so i have made a steering shaft without the vibration damper. if you want to use the rag joint maybe this heat sheilded version is the way to go if you are interested i could probably find the part number
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
cool. fyi, if you split apart the rag joint you end up with two nice pieces with the oddball spline count..I got adapters made to use a 3/4 DD joint and custom steering setup...
also made some progress with the mounts, soon we will do a mock-up to test my theory.
also made some progress with the mounts, soon we will do a mock-up to test my theory.
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
I thought this thread was dead yeah I guess I got some work done, not the best time for me to build a car, been trying to find a house and recover from a broken leg 
anyway, I finalized the mounts...I did not like having only 3 mounting holes, so I drilled thru the center bore of the main mount, tapped it, and modified the subframe slightly to incorporate a stronger mounting point. finally got the base of the mounts the way I like it too, nice solid mounting surface. unfortunately, the main meat of the subframe where the mount will sit is not flat, took alot of time to get the mount right. solid as a rock now 
I also made a bracket to relocate the abs, and sorted out a new slimmer steering shaft. I'll try to use the straight shaft, but if need be I'll do my "sidewinder" shaft to get around anything that gets in my way
I was waiting on a new slave cylinder, got that yesterday....so as soon as I get the clutch and new slave in the drivetrain, I'll do a final fit. here's one more pic of Sanderson headers vs. corvette c6 manifolds....I might use the vette mannies on my car, the current test rat will get the sandersons.
yeah I guess I got some work done, not the best time for me to build a car, been trying to find a house and recover from a broken leg anyway, I finalized the mounts...I did not like having only 3 mounting holes, so I drilled thru the center bore of the main mount, tapped it, and modified the subframe slightly to incorporate a stronger mounting point. finally got the base of the mounts the way I like it too, nice solid mounting surface. unfortunately, the main meat of the subframe where the mount will sit is not flat, took alot of time to get the mount right. solid as a rock now I also made a bracket to relocate the abs, and sorted out a new slimmer steering shaft. I'll try to use the straight shaft, but if need be I'll do my "sidewinder" shaft to get around anything that gets in my way
I was waiting on a new slave cylinder, got that yesterday....so as soon as I get the clutch and new slave in the drivetrain, I'll do a final fit. here's one more pic of Sanderson headers vs. corvette c6 manifolds....I might use the vette mannies on my car, the current test rat will get the sandersons.
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
in case anyone cares, made a little progress over the weekend
now, my original idea was to try to get stock manifolds to work. I can now say with confidence that there is no way in hell any stock manny will work. not even going to waste bandwidth posting pics. dont get me wrong, they physically fit in the car, but dont plan on steering the thing unless you hook up some kind of remote / electric steering, the stock mannies just get right in the path of the steering shaft. the headers you see above are sanderson's, but I'm sure you'll have similar results with hookers or another brand of cblock huggers. my "sidewinder" steering shaft consists of 3 flaming river joints about $75 each, a support bearing $20 and a custom bracket (many hours into fabricating and test fitting, but at least it was "free").
Cliff notes: Sandersons' kinda fit
now, my original idea was to try to get stock manifolds to work. I can now say with confidence that there is no way in hell any stock manny will work. not even going to waste bandwidth posting pics. dont get me wrong, they physically fit in the car, but dont plan on steering the thing
unless you hook up some kind of remote / electric steering, the stock mannies just get right in the path of the steering shaft. the headers you see above are sanderson's, but I'm sure you'll have similar results with hookers or another brand of cblock huggers. my "sidewinder" steering shaft consists of 3 flaming river joints about $75 each, a support bearing $20 and a custom bracket (many hours into fabricating and test fitting, but at least it was "free").Cliff notes: Sandersons' kinda fit