SMAX

iTrader: (11)

Yup, I sold my bbk intake, bbk tb, fast fuel rails, 28lb injectors, harness and computer and came out almost $700 ahead.

ChevyChad

iTrader: (50)

Reworking a harness is not rocket science. If you can swap an engine, you can lightly modify your own harness. It is easy to do, just takes a little time...

jmdale1984

iTrader: (6)

Yes, my car is a 4th gen that came with an LS1. No, it isn't stock. Yes, I have done swaps. Yes, there is a difference between a GEN1/2 SBC w/carb and a GEN3/4 w/carb. When you compare the two, the DIS and valvetrain angle are major advantages for the GEN3/4.

None of that takes away from the fact the a carb is not as good at metering fuel as EFI. And let's not forget the the primary purpose of any fuel system is... to meter fuel. I'd be willing to bet that any gains ever seen by installing a carb on an LSx was due to one or more of the following: 1. Mainfold design 2. Other means of less airflow restriction 3. Poor EFI tuning before the swap 4. Inadequate fuel delivery before the swap.

A lot of what I've said isn't opinion, it's fact. Technology constantly advances, people often don't.

SMAX

iTrader: (11)

In your swaps how many were carbed ls1's?

rockytopper

I vote ls1 EFI. All I'm hearing from you carb guys is” what if I want to tune it?”. That is exactly why I went LS1. I don't want to tune nothing and most likely don't or want need too once the engine is setup and running. I have heard the words scared of EFI. Why? If a no mechanic *** person like me can install one and make it run the first time I started it anyone can. It's just plug and play that is all it is. The need to tune a ls1 is rare very rare. I have one in my 2002 truck and it has almost 100k and I haven't even seen a code out of it. Keep playing with your carbs and stop making excuses why they are better or cheaper. If you like to tinker and tune your ride then I fully support you. I prefer to drive and enjoy mine trouble free. Carbs are like points they are a thing of the past.

SMAX

iTrader: (11)

Your statement goes right along with what has been said. It all depends on the intended use of the vehicle. If you look around at most of us that are running a carb you will see that we are not running a stock ls1. If you add the modification to your engine that I have you will need a tune. 100% sure of that. You want to run a stock engine(and that is cool)so the stock efi is ideal you get great fuel economy, good power and a cool swap. Not everyone wants to run stock though, and that just means more investment and complications with efi.

Scoggin Dickey

iTrader: (34)

I honestly think that both sides of this argument that think one is absolutely greater than the other for every reason are simply uneducated about the opponent system. Most of the carb guys don't understand that it isn't NEAR as complicated as they think to learn and run the EFI system. It's new, with more wires and a computer so it seems like a hassle but it isn't. EFI guys think getting gas on their hands sucks (and they are right) but they don't know what great advantages a carb can have and how tunable it really is in the right hands. Knowledgeable hands can do incredible things with both setups.

jmdale1984

iTrader: (6)

Zero... it was dicussed, but then we decided it was just lazy and definitely not worth it in the long run. No swap of mine would ever be carbed. I've had enough of carbs to last the rest of my life. I don't enjoy spending 15 minutes trying to get my car started on a cold day, or going to the pump twice as much. On swaps that weren't mine, I have strongly adivsed against it, and my advice was taken.

SMAX

iTrader: (11)

Thank you and well said.

DrkPhx

iTrader: (15)

Even though I grew up working on carbed cars many years ago and can appreciate their simplicity, I still think EFI offers a distinct advantage. When using a powerful tuning/datalogging package like EFILive you get almost unlimited tuneability for all conditions that allows you to run a pretty radical setup on the street and maintain driveability.

Cam72aro

iTrader: (28)

But on the same lines, you dont have to run a carb on a modified ls1 to make it run. You modded it and went carb because it was easier for you to tune. See the light, it is not more complications with a modded motor with efi. How many heads and cam cars are there out there with stock, stock, stock efi components.

Sheephead

iTrader: (13)

A stock fuel injected 6.0 is rated 350hp from factory at flywheel.They put a carb on and got 425hp at flywheel.So your saying a good tuner can get 75 more with just a tune?



Test 1 was with the stock, iron 6.0L short-block and production iron heads assisted with a GMPP single-plane intake manifold, a 750 Holley carburetor, and a set of 131/44-inch Kooks long-tube headers.

Test 2 kept all the original changes from Test 1 but added the GMPP hydraulic roller Hot cam and valvespring kit.

TEST 1 TEST 2
RPM TQ HP TQ HP
2,200 406 170 399 168
2,400 403 184 392 179
2,600 403 199 393 194
2,800 406 216 401 214
3,000 411 235 414 237
3,200 418 255 427 260
4,300 424 275 435 281
3,600 429 294 438 299
3,800 433 313 437 315
4,000 436 332 434 331
4,200 437 350 434 347
4,400 439 368 436 366
4,600 439 384 441 387
4,800 437 399 447 408
5,000 432 411 450 428
5,200 424 420 450 444
5,400 412 424 444 456
5,600 398 425 436 466
5,800 383 424 430 475
6,000 367 419 423 483
Avg. 417 318 428 336
Power/ci 1.20 1.16 1.23 1.32
(peak)

fast

iTrader: (24)

yes I totally agree that the tuner programs let us do things the carb guys can't do

but I CAN tell you there are some sick carb setups that idle/drive/run the # just like efi does ... like efi and it's tuner-in-a-can, a good carb tuner can work wonders (power, drivabilty and gas mileage)

if I could tune a carb I'd do it just for looks alone
but pushing keys is an easier tune for me at this point

rock on!

jmdale1984

iTrader: (6)

This test isn't really an apples to apples comparison.

First of all, you're trusting the factory's 350 bhp rating as absolute truth. In most cases, LSx motors are considerably underrated by the factory. In one case, I seen an LS1 crate motor rated at 350 bhp that put down 414 bhp on an engine dyno. Not to mention every 98-02 f-body that was rated at 305-345 bhp that put down 300-330 rwhp on a chassis dyno.

Second, the factory rating was made with factory exhaust manifolds, not Kooks long tubes. The factory rating was also made with a truck intake, not a single plane.

Third, dynos vary.

To make a real apples to apples comparison. The fuel injection setup needs to use the same manifold, same internals, same exhaust, a throttle body that flows the same cfm as the carb used, and needs to have a very good tune. This setup should be dynoed, with the running temp recorded so that it can be matched. Then plug the injector holes, install a carb setup, and redyno at the same engine temp, same dyno, same shop temp, same humidity, etc.

Show me an improvement from a carb under those circumstances, and you'll make a believer of me.

Sheephead

iTrader: (13)

I agree it,s not apples for apples.I like going by documented results not someone,s opinion.I wish there was a apples for apples dyno.I think people would be surprised to see not much difference in the numbers.I think both carb and efi can be competitive.People need to decide what there capabilities are then decide which route would be good for there conversion.
Mine came down to money and capabilities.To say a carb is a waste time is stupid.

Cam72aro

iTrader: (28)

But to say that driveability of a carb is the same as efi is also stupid. Cold weather driveability is nowhere close of efi. Lets see what can be argued on this point.

SMAX

iTrader: (11)

Thats not the point. The point is that you guys are saying there is no good application for a carb no matter what. They are all junk.

Well I don't know about where you are from(but I have a feeling it is the same), but here the fastest street driven efi cars won't even hold a candle to the fastest street driven carb cars.

Sheephead

iTrader: (13)

People have decide what the vehicle is going to be used for.If it,s a everyday driver i would go efi.Mine will only coming out for fair weather at the track.On cold days i would drive 05 sierra with efi for good mpg.

ChevyChad

iTrader: (50)

Are we talking street driven LS carbed cars vs street driven LS EFI? If so, I know you are mistaken Sam

Cam72aro

iTrader: (28)

I am going on yalls arguement that carb cars can have the same driveability as efi. There is a place for a carb, and thats on a track car. Also, some of the fastest street driven cars here are efi turbo cars. Tiago has a car that makes 1200hp. There is a reason that FI guys go with injection. Its the ability to contol the fueling. With a carb its not possible.