demarco313

agree with this 100%. I looked at it from the exact same perspective as you! I was debating about getting a Z51 coupe or a c5z and chose the Z51 coupe basically because it was going to be modded and geared anyway so might as well save a couple of thousand getting this over the z06 and just using that extra money on mods.

Good point. I've heard nothing but positive things about the vararam thats why i just ordered one. I was debating between the vararam and callaway honker as i've heard really good things about that to. but im looking for power and from the research I did it seems nothing beats the vararam as far as power. Right now I have a blackwing on it. Can't wait to see and feel the difference between this and the blackwing as i've been seeing and hearing of such a difference it makes when installing the vararam so i can only assume right now until I actually install it..

MawneeC5

iTrader: (12)

There is no question a C5 can be made better than a Z06. My 98 had heads, cam, LTs, exhaust, procharger ect. WAY more power than my Z06 puts out stock. But what people appreciate about the Z06 is what a complete and tight package it is bone stock. I like my Z06 better because I dont feel like I need to mod it to get a car that performs the way I want. It just feels perfect as is. I seriously think at most I'll throw a cam and longtubes on it just to make it feel and sound a little more agressive, but I'm in no hurry.

99C5JA

And that's great. For a person who just wants to do a few bolt ons and be done with it, the Z06 is the best stock package hands down.

However those looking to seriously mod (which is a lot of LS1Tech members) will be better off saving the premium for the Z06 and putting it towards those mods. People moving to the C5 platform that have already modified their Fbodies can easily apply that knowledge to the C5 and make their money go further. It's all about your goals. I have driven a 620rwhp '99 C5 (A&A kit, headers, blower cam) and that was by far the most exciting C5 I've ever been behind the wheel of. Made my car feel rather pedestrian. But again, if the Z06 is where you want to be from a performance perspective and you don't want the headaches of a heavily modified car, then it's a performance bargain.

MawneeC5

iTrader: (12)

Oh yea, no doubt. If you intend to do heads, cam, intake right from the get go then you are replacing most of what makes an LS6 different from an LS1 anyway Buy a coupe, mod it and enjoy more power and the sunny days with the top off

ryans01z28

iTrader: (12)

where do u live in ND? im from fargo. congrats on the car. i want to get one too as a matter of fact i just jumped on here to c what my car is worth with all my mods. just put another $1300 into it last week. i just want a vette bad

SCM_Crash

iTrader: (2)

One of the main benefits of the Z06 is the suspension. YES, I know you can do suspension on the LS1 cars too. But how much will it cost to do all the suspension for a C5 coupe to be on par with a Z06? $4-5K??? That's about the difference in price to begin with.

A base C5 coupe right now costs about 15-16K in decent condition. An 02+ Z06 costs about 20-21K in decent condition.

If you're building a drag car, then the suspension doesn't really matter. But to make the C5 Coupes as tight and nimble as a Z06, it's going to cost what you would've paid anyway. The added benefit of getting the Z06 with it's current suspension is that you already get 243 heads, a lighter car, and light-weight larger wheels. In addition, the Z06 has the C5 convertible's chassis to make it stiffer. So you're talking about suspension and chassis to help make the car handle better.

When everything is said and done (ignoring engine performance) you've spent more money on the LS1 than the LS6. (Assuming you plan to road race the car which is what Z06s were meant for.) If you plan to mod the motor, with an LS6, you can sell the heads/cam combo for $600 and make some money back. You'll be lucky to make $150 back selling off the LS1 heads/cam. If you bought a pre-2001 C5, you won't have the LS6 intake manifold to sell either. Although, the LS6 intake is pretty good especially for F.I.

The Ti axle back that comes stock on the Z06 flows better than almost all aftermarket mufflers. It's lighter as well. So there's another gain for the Z06. Yes, you can definitely make a C5 Coupe faster than the Z06, which nobody is arguing, but if you plan to road race, you should start with a better platform.

99C5JA

Suspension? I bought some take off '01 Z51 springs for a couple hundred dollars. It's the exact same front spring with a very slightly softer rear spring than the Z06. Hotchkiss bars cost me about $400. They're beefier than the Z06 pieces. Bilsteins sports were about $350. Lowering was free. So that takes care of the suspension for under $1000. A Z51 car would cost even less since the springs are there to begin with.

Stiffness wise there is no "convertible chassis". All C5's were built with the same framerail construction. The C5 was designed from the beginning to be a convertible. To make up for the mistake made on the C4. The FRC gains a smidge of stiffness from the non removable roof. That's it. Installing a tunnel plate on a coupe or convertible (about $100) will help close the already small gap.

If I want the Ti exhaust, I'll watch for one for sale. They're usually $400. A lot of owners replace them for sound and looks reason. Ironically out of my close friends that own Corvettes, the only one running the Ti exhaust is a coupe that bought it off CF. My friend with the Z06 has an aftermarket (B&B).

To match a Z06 power wise would take a mild cam and long tubes. I made around 380rwhp with a TR227 and long tubes. The big expense to match the Z06 straightline wise is gears (~ $1500).

Again if you're going to build a heads/cam C5 the $5-$6k premium is much better spent elsewhere.

Strider74

I just have to ask. When I test drove a C5 Z06 (can't remember the year) I was quite disapointed in how it performed. (I know enough about cars that this should not have been the case and I have always assumed that one was just a dog but it has always made me a little gun shy about spending the extra $$$ on a Vette)

So what I am wondering is that at what point do you (or should you) notice a difference in performance? Or how hard do you have to push it to notice the gain?

Cole Train

iTrader: (30)

C5Z or C6Z shocks can be had for a couple hundred bucks. I paid $140 for all 4 C5Z shocks in my coupe. A C6Z51 or C6Z sway kit can be got brand new for about $200 from sponsors on CorvetteForum for front and rear. It's the stiffer roof of the Fixed top and lighter weight that are harder to do


Strider74~ i had a '96 Z28 before my Vette with A LOT of suspension mods and my C5 is way ahead of that thing. It carves up corners easier and with more confidence then my Z28 ever did. It stays level and exits the turn with the tires far more planted. I've had friends in f-body's try and follow me thru the turns and their *** end gets out from them or the tires start to chirp. Mine takes a good 10-15mph more than their car to really start to get sideways. That is of course unless i want it to get sideways

SCM_Crash

iTrader: (2)

You're right about the chassis. I can't find where I read that the Vert and Z06 had a different chassis than the coupe. That's going to bug the **** out of me until I find it. But I did find other articles saying what you said. So now that's going to bug me even more.

As for the suspension, it's the one thing I don't like to do myself. I do my own brakes, but that's about it when it comes to that stuff. I do my own electrical and most of the motor stuff myself. So I would probably pay someone to put all that in. Yeah, the parts are cheap, but the labor isn't. But if you can do it yourself, cool beans.

Regardless of people changing the Ti exhaust out, it's still better for performance reasons. It's lighter and it flows better than almost everything out there. You pretty much have to go to the LGM Big 3 to get more flow when you reach 500+RWHP. It's been dyno proven that aftermarket exhausts either don't make any more power or make less. I personally don't want louder. I like the stock Ti exhaust because I can talk to my girlfriend when I drive.

And still, the Z06 is always going to be lighter. And almost everything you do to lighten up a coupe, you can do to lighten up the Z06 too. No coupe is ever going to have the potential weight-wise as the Z06.

I guess the only thing left is that it comes down to personal preference. After owning a Z06 I won't get a coupe/vert for a couple reasons. The gauges and the FRC look. I know the gauges can be changed out, but if it's not a Z06, why have Z06 gauges?

Again, personal preference.

99C5JA

The C5 drives smoother than the Fbody. That can fool you when driving one. A Z06 with it's gearing should've felt pretty quick. You sure the traction nanny wasn't on? That will put a serious damper on things.

99C5JA

All labor is expensive. If you're swapping the heads or cam, the suspension stuff is cake. The springs are little time consuming. But like I said if you buy a Z51 car to start with, you're looking at bars and shocks. Not difficult at all.

I'm not arguing that the Ti exhaust is bad or not lighter. I'm just saying nothing stops someone who buys a coupe, vert or plain FRC from buying one and putting it on there. We're discussing value and the $400 cost is a small slice of the money saved by opting for a coupe or FRC.

Now you should know better than to say always. We're talking 100lbs here. Will a coupe owner without the heavier options, that buys light wheels, and puts on a Ti exhaust be ahead of the Z06 owner that put on heavy chrome wheels and ditched the Ti exhaust? My coupe with just about a full tank weighed in at about 3170. I just ditched 30lbs by changing the wheels. That's getting pretty close to stock Z06 range.

Now, to be fair, you did say potential. So if the coupe owner and Z06 owner do the exact same things and the coupe owner doesn't go for lighter glass, then yes all things being equal the Z06 will still be lighter.

The reality is the majority of the Z06's I see at Vette shows have replaced the wheels and exhaust. Which probably negates about half the weight advantage they had to begin with.

And that is absolutely valid. My friend has an Electron Blue Z06. I've had this same discussion with him. He knew the pros and cons. The fact is he liked the FRC body style and EB was his favorite color. He got the exact car he wanted. And that's worth more than any option or saving $$$ up front. I'd never argue that you should settle on something like a Vette.

Cole Train

iTrader: (30)

With Corvette's it's all about what you want the car for. I personally love the Z06/FRC body style but i wanted a targa because i like having the top off during the summer. I don't care for 'Verts. GM is smart to have all the options they do for Vette's because it allows for more people getting exactly what they want

SCM_Crash

iTrader: (2)

You know, the funny thing is I actually prefer to do motor work. LOL Call me a masochist.

Not totally true. I had an stock 02 Z06 with HRE 540s and the car only weighed 10Lbs more than my 2003 which was stock when I weighed it.

The 02 Z with HREs weighed 3080Lbs with 1/2 tank of gas.
The 03 Z (totally stock) weighed 3070Lbs with 1/2 tank of gas.

I have a friend with an optionless 2000 Vert that weighed 3130 and it was bone stock except for the Vararam.

Most of the weight savings is from the smaller back window, shaved glass, fixed mass antenna, no telescoping steering wheel, lighter seats (no adjustable anything), no passenger side power seat, and the Ti exhaust. (I'm sure there's other things I can't think of but those are the heavy items)
The wheels didn't constitute THAT much of the weights savings due to their larger size. I think they were 19Lbs/ea front and 21Lbs/ea back. That's only 4Lbs difference over the 01 Z wheels and maybe 6Lbs over the thin 5-spokes on the coupes.

Honestly, the 99 and 2000 FRCs were options for me too. But I really wanted the heads up display and didn't feel like spending the time/money to retro fit.

My 02 was an Electron Blue Z as well. I loved it. Girls were attracted to that car 10x more than my Millennium Yellow Z... But I guess that's a good thing since I have a GF.

scramblerman

iTrader: (16)

Well this is nice to see, having a convo and not getting way out of hand. Thats got to be a first on here, lol.

I prefered to start with a Z06, then again I had the money and wanted the "Z06" status. I believed it is the better way to start off, at the top. Tho there are plenty of guys that have gone the FRC route and made them look like Z06's. I never liked the hatch style, tho for some weird *** reason I have to have a C6Z. To each his own and it is still a vette no matter what.

scramblerman

iTrader: (16)

You may of gotten one that was beat to ****. I have driven one of those before. It was a yellow 03 Z06 with 32000 miles on it. It ran decent but the power was not what I was expecting. Still I saved some more money and bought a 02 Z with 6200 miles on it. WOW, what a difference. Car handled better and was definitely quicker. The stock F1 tires are junk! I put nittos on right away and took care of that issue.

Test drive a few of them and you can feel the difference of the ones that have been beat on compared to the ones that are takin care of.

One way to test the performance is in 2nd gear at 3000 rpms and then lay in it to 6500.
Car felt tons faster than my bolt on WS6. I proved that at the track. Best time in my CAI, full exhaust, auto WS6 was 12.8@108mph. My best time in the vette with a CAI was 11.96@117mph.

MawneeC5

iTrader: (12)

QFT!!

A couple weeks ago when I was shopping, the first Z06 I test drove was an 02 with 57k miles selling for $20k. What a clunker!! You could just tell it was owned by someone who didnt appreciate it. The tranny was sloppy, the engine felt weak and the rear moaned. It had scratches and dings all over the paint and the interior was beat to hell. And who the hell paints in the corvette letters with a brush?! I left that place seriously worried that all the cars in my price range were going to be like that.

Then I found an 03 with 26k miles going for $24k. Night and day difference. This car felt new, performed perfectly and didnt have a scratch on it. It seriously feels like it has 75 more HP than the first one I drove. Needless to say...I took that car home

Cole Train

iTrader: (30)

^ yeah my car when i bought it was a 70k mile car car and had been driven. The paint is far from perfect. It's got typical nose/mirror/rocker chips, scratches here and there and all that crap. People that come near it apparently don't care for other peoples stuff and set anything and everything on the car. I've given up on trying to keep it nice. I may repaint it and see if i can get it back to good but yeah....

SCM_Crash

iTrader: (2)

My first Z06 I drove was absolutely mint. The lady wanted $21K for it. It had 28K miles on it and the interior still smelled new. The owner of it had died a few years before and the wife was just keeping it under a cover in the garage. Her son came by once a week to drive it around the block and put it back in the garage. When the owner was still alive, they only drove the car once a week to lunch and a movie.

I couldn't believe the car smelled new still. Anyway, I ended up paying $19.5K for it because I couldn't find the money for tax and told them 19.5 was all I could afford if I'm going to pay the taxes on the car too. They said yes and I got an awesome deal. It only took 1 try to find the right car.

But with this last Z06, omfg, I drove a **** load of cars I had to pass on for one reason or another. I test drove 14 cars (if I recall right) until found the one I have now. It took 6 months of searching and driving. You wouldn't believe how hard it is to find MY Z06s regardless of their mileage or condition. I drove some where the car literally drove like it was floating on the ocean. I drove one that was 100% perfect other than a paint chip on the door sill, but it turned out the car was salvaged. And I even drove a few that had minor issues that I could fix, but they price was ridiculous considering the cost of the fixes.

Eventually I found the one I have today. Excellent condition inside and out. 100% bone stock, owned by a family that had 6 cars so it was hardly driven. 19K miles on the odo. They wanted $28K for it. I offered them $25K. Heard from them a few days later and picked up the car!

Good times.

99C5JA

My fault, I should have clarified. The vast majority add chrome factory reproductions (C5z, C6z or C6zr1), which is where the added weight comes in. Swapping in something like the HRE's wouldn't add much if any weight as you point out. I wasn't suggesting that the Z06 wheels were a substantial weight savings over the other factory wheels, only that the majority of C5 Z06's I see have swapped for heavier (and more attractive) wheels and thus negating some of their initial weight advantage.

Figuring in gas weight, it would've tipped the scales at 3135 (car weighed 3178 and was between 3/4 and full when weighed so figure 7 gallons @ 6.2lb/gal to get to half a tank). I shed about 30lbs with the wheels so it would be around 3105 now with half a tank of gas. So about 20-30lbs heavier than the Z06 examples you provided. Another friends '99 coupe weighed 3090 with between 1/4 and half a tank.

*Note I edited this because the first Wiki entry was way off on gas weight and the C5 holds 18 gals which makes it 9 gallons for a half tank (I was estimating 16 gallon for a tank).