Woodylyf767

So I was seeing a buddy, who wanted to go for a pull in "LaNegra" the C5. I did a quick pull on it, and my tac was a bit sticky causing me to bounce the car off the limiter in 1st a bit before shifting.

Anyways I get back to my house and park the car, and there was a touch of burned oil (engine leaks oil from the front a bit). I let the car sit there while I did some other stuff and came back a few hours to drop my buddy off back at his place, and when I started the car up, I heard a terrible squealing/screeching noise. I saw on the dash it said "Charge fault" or something of the nature. I believe it was referring to the ac system. I also saw on the dash that my battery voltage was low, In addition to this I had now power steering. This lead me to believe the accessories weren't being turned/powered. I didn't know it at the moment so I kept the car on, and after about 20 ~ 40 seconds of idling the car down the street in gear trying to figure out the noise it went away and I drove my buddy back to his place and back with no problems. The next day a family member moved the car then I took it for a late night joy ride again with no problems. The day after a family member moved the car and told me it was making that squeaking noise again.

At this point I had done a little research and thought that the belts weren't moving because maybe an accessory had locked up or something. I decided to take both the belts off and saw no signs of spinning/unusual wear on them. I also checked the pulleys, and accessories, and they all spun smoothly. I grabbed the crank pulley/harmonic balancer and it wasn't noticeably loose or anything. I did not start the car and observe if it was wobbly or not.

This is on a 1998 A4 C5

Video of incident:

AgFormula02

iTrader: (13)

Can you get your hand on the crank bolt? Is it loose?
can you get a socket on it and try to tighten it?
did you look to see if the pulley had walked itself forward?

Woodylyf767

It's a little dark today. Will do it tomorrow. It seemed to be planar with the other pulleys.

Do the crank bolts come loose? And does this sound like something that happens often on these cars?

AgFormula02

iTrader: (13)

Yes it happens. And it sucks when it does.
Pulley r and r requires removing the darn steering rack.

Woodylyf767

Is it possible to replace the gasket for the front cover and the seal? Or would I need to pull the motor?

AgFormula02

iTrader: (13)

Once you pull the steering rack, you can get to everything and remove the pulley, then the cover.

Woodylyf767

Welp...

I had time to look at it today.


I started the car with no belts to pull it into the garage. I looked at the crank pulley/balancer and saw it dancing around like it had ants in its pants.

Got it on the lift and saw scoring around the cover and oil pan. It is indeed leaking oil. I have an extremely tight budget but luckily I have solid connections with machinist and machine shops. So if I need to get it welded I can get it welded most likely for free.

I plan on trying to double pin the new pulley for a couple of reasons. Those reasons being to keep the pulley from spinning and the second to keep the pulley centric if my snout is worn down.

I'm saying this before I do it so if it's a pain in the **** to do the first 1 I may wind up with only 1 pin in it,

Is it hard to remove the oil pan at this point?

And i'm imagining the engine is mounted to the cradle correct? Which confuses me why so many people lower the cradle to get extra clearance to work on it.

And you wouldn't happen to be able to point me in the direction of a pdf of a service manual for a C5 would you? If not I think I can get creative and find one

AgFormula02

iTrader: (13)

Don’t over complicate it.
remove steering rack.
remove balancer.
remove front cover.
install NEW front cover which comes with new crank seal and also new front cover seal.
Reinstall old/new balancer using the correct tool.
use ARP balancer bolt with loctite

Woodylyf767

I think I'd still like to pin it. I drive like a 22 year old

I initially assumed a front cover would be out of the budget, but they are plenty cheap. So I'll probably get a new one.

And I do not want to drop the pan or the pan gasket, but it may be part of where it's leaking. Or not. I'll clean it up and get a better look at it

LT-4Play

iTrader: (1)

I just fixed a car with the same issue, the outer ring of the balancer separated from the hub and walked back and rubbed the front cover and oil pan.

I had to replace the oil pan gasket because that's what failed - you can see below where the rubber detached from the gasket.



You'll be able to re-use the oil pan and front cover but you have to replace the oil pan gasket and it's going to be a bitch. I ended up buying the engine support fixtures that allow you to drop the cradle, but that's because we have a shop. Here's a link to the engine support fixtures
C5 engine support
I put a piece of 2" square tube stock in between and supported the front of the engine with a chain.

I will warn you that when you put everything back together you need to be vary careful to align the oil pan and front cover properly - if you don't you'll crack the oil pan (I had to replace a pan shortly after I fixed the car pictured above because an "engine builder" didn't assemble things properly).

Pinning he crank wouldn't have stopped the failure and is probably overkill but if it makes you feel better - go at it.

Sacrilege

iTrader: (1)

The pulley didn’t spin on the crank, the rubber in the damper failed. Just get an ATI damper.

Woodylyf767

Did you replace the harmonic balancer with an OEM style one? And yeah it seems the harmonic balancer decided to separate. So I don't want for it to happen again after I replace it.

I think I have a solid idea of how I'm going to do it.

As for cracking the oil pan, you are talking about when the front cover sits too far low and the oil pan doesn't sit flat? Correct? Is that what you mean?

And I've been thinking about getting a tool like so

https://www.ebay.com/i/124481703827?...MaApZyEALw_wcB

I'm guessing the C5 harmonic balancer is flat not dished.

What tool have you used? My car is automatic so I can't just put it in gear.

Woodylyf767

^ I replied a minute after Sacrilege so I didn't see your comment till today.

I do not have money for a ATI balancer.

I dropped the cradle and removed the rack today.


I got the bolt off the pulley and was using my puller. I usually do it the ghetto way and put an impact on the puller to pop it off, but I couldn't fit it with the radiator fans in the way. So I had to do it by hand. I got to a point where tightening the puller just turns the engine over.

Also when I pull the pan I'm planning on unfastening the motor mounts and hoisting the engine with a cherry picker on a chain with the passenger head bolt and some accessory bolt near the alternator. This should get me enough room to pull the pan

Edit: forgot to mention the face from the harmonic balancer bolting surface to the flat face of the crank snout was .130"

Sacrilege

iTrader: (1)

Pull the starter off and lock the flywheel/flex plate with a crow bar or with a locking tool.

LT-4Play

iTrader: (1)

On that car I replaced it with a stock balancer (Rock auto has them for $75) - I will only install stock GM balancer or an ATI - I don't trust anything else.

To keep the flywheel from turning I'm pretty sure I removed the side cover on the drivers side of the block and stuck a prybar in one of the holes of the ring gear - can't say for sure.

As far as cracking the oil pan - yes if the front cover isn't installed properly (too high or too low) - you risk cracking the pan. So here is how I did it.
Install but just snug all of the forward facing front cover bolts (try to get front cover as flush as possible)
Install oil pan but just snug the bolts (remember to put sealer in the 4 corners of the oil pan where the block/pan/covers meet)
Install and sung the 2 rear bellhousing bolts
Torque all of the oil pan bolts except the 2 that bolt to the front cover
Torque the bellhousing bolts
Torque all of the forward facing front cover bolts
Torque the 2 oil pan bolts that bolt to the front cover

Hope that helps

Woodylyf767

Hey Thanks for the replies!

So I was shopping for tools and figured I'd splurge on the 40$ ICT piece. I figure I will use it for multiple engines as I need it to torque another project I have sitting on the stand.

I bought (what amazon says is) "GM Genuine Parts Replacement Balancer" as well as "GM Performance Parts Balancer Bolt". I think I like the tty more than the ARP because I don't have a 200 ft lb torque wrench, or whatever the ARP one is supposed to be. I'm not pinning the crank as that wasn't the problem and budget is tight.

Holding tool , balancer, and bolt come tomorrow, and the gaskets come Sunday.

Woodylyf767

^ Decided I didn't want to be too cheap on the tool. So I spent the 40$ on ICT billet instead of 20$ for amazon one
"551911-LST"

ICT Billet LS LT Heavy Duty Flywheel Flexplate Crank Holding Tool Flex Plate Holder

^ So people who google for a review of the tool have something to find.


^ Test fit on dished LM7

^ I moved the exhaust partially out of the way and disconnected nothing from the starter. I just unbolted the starter and pushed it out of the way. The tool worked great.


^ This is where I'm baffled. How could it wear in a groove if there is still paint on the inner side of the HB?



^ Outside looks fine







^ So it was spinning on the crank.


So basically i'm thinking the HB wore down before and spun a groove into the cover and oil pan. And in addition to this it was replaced, but never pinned. I would measure the crank snout to see if it's out of spec but I do not have the time, money, or effort to pull or replace the engine. So I ordered a pin kit and will probably put 2 pins 180 deg from each other unless it's a pain in the **** to drill. I'm still going to change the front seal, front cover gaskets, and oil pan gaskets. If the covers are worn all the way through I'm going to get quotes to weld it back up and go from there.


Thank you guys for the help so far

Woodylyf767

Alright y'all job is done.

I like to be honest about how I do things and all the mistakes I make.

Well when I was torqueing the HB bolt I put a 3' breaker bar on it, and tightened it as tight as I could for the 140 degrees. And I'm sure after doing the same procedure for the HB install on the engine on my stand that it was not enough force for the 140 degree. But anyways, that is the only mistake so to speak of on this install.

I used the drill bit that was provided with the pin kit and that was dumb. I had better drill bits that I wound up using on another car that worked really well. So anyways it took me 4 hours to drill deep enough.

The oil pan gasket was messed up exactly how yours was. I took it off and sanded the sharp edges and the groove from where the old HB wore in it, and installed a new gasket.

I didn't take many pictures of the job.

So far it's worked fine 0 leaks.