DrBlueSS

Good, I like your responses to my last post. All I was trying to do was hightlight the the fact that this Top Gear vs. Corvette issue has, in all the threads where it's mentioned, quickly degenerated into a British vs. USA thing. All I can say is that the clowns on Top Gear do not reflect the general opinion of the average British car enthusiast. I love American cars ( I own three of them) and I love America, and most British I know do too. Give the Brits a break! Top Gear = Bad, Britain = Good. Yes F-bodman, good point, if the USA were like the old British Empire the USA would rule the world, and I for one think that would be a good thing. One last thing though, Ling_650vette, Scotland is part of Britain so Scots are Brits, I know, I'm both.
God bless America and long live the C6!!

ArmyVette

Have to agree with DrBlueSS above. This is just one mag's opinion and isn't necessarily reflective of the British public.

Heck, I've seen American publications that have ragged on the C5 AND the C6 and that didn't deteriorate into a ragging of the country as a whole!

There are lots of satisfied British C5 owners who will tell you their Vettes are awesome and that Top Gear can pound sand. The same is true for Vette owners all over Europe, Australia, and many other places.

It ain't the Brits, it's just one rag's opinion. And what is it that they say about opinions??

99C5JA

Yeah I get upset when I see these threads turn into an anti-Britain fest. The British have been our staunchest allies and have stuck with us through a lot of hard times. That and every Brit I've met has been a lot of fun to BS with and toss back a few beers (micro brew stuff, not the watery crap). So feel free to bag on Top Gear, but look at your history books and see what our countries have done for each other since the revolutionary war. I for one am glad to have them on our side.

Ling_650vette

iTrader: (1)

Sematics aside between Scotts are Brits.

Personally, I dont consider all Brits to have the same theory as Top Gear. But, if they're going to show a review of the car, @ least make it a worthwhile one. You wouldnt want to show a review of an F1 car and show it getting *** raped by a Champ car, then call it the most advanced racer on the planet. And no, im not saying the Corvette is the most advanced, but ive yet to see a stock NSX be competition down the dragstrip vs a Corvette, LS1, LT4 or even LT1.

Yes, they have a right to share their opinion, but they still looked ignorant letting the NSX walk it, yet turning in very respectable, and competative times against the vettes "supercar competition"

f-bodman

This is what I was responding to, no more, no less. I have nothing against Britain or any other country for that matter, but I will defend my country when someone makes comments like this If you read the above posts it was NOT an american vs. british thing until this was said. I have many Top Gear videos on my hard drive that I enjoy, needless to say I didn't save this one

f-bodman

And yes I do respect Britain for standing by us when many/most countries would not

Kap_99C5

The only thing I can think of is they ran with the TC on. I run a 12.9 with an intake, so I know I have less hp then a c6 and I dont think NSX's are running 12's from the factory.

TriShield

I've said it before, I'll say it again. It was not a bad review of the car.

Richard pointed out a few faults that I think most Vette fans probably expected would be there, and closed that despite the flaws the car was a lot of fun. Did anyone honestly expect the new Corvette would be a completely flawless car? Top Gear humorously rags on practically every car, even British ones. Jeremy made it clear he didn't like the car, and that he's never been a Corvette fan, but he did admit it did well on their track.

The show has a tongue-in-cheek style, don't take every little thing they say as gospel. It is an excellent car show, and the humor is the icing on the cake. I wish it was shown here in the US.

JackZ28

They really seemed to enjoy the handling characteristics- you gotta give 'em that.

99C5JA

Well, I have to disagree. This was a bad review. They bashed the car for several things that they thought were wrong with it without bothering to gather any facts behind these opinions. Their leaf spring bashing is probably the best example. They obviously did no research into how the C6 uses these in its suspension. And went on to prove this with comparisons they made. I know some of it was in jest. But it went to far and really showed their ignorance. The rear bumper bash is again something that is there for a reason. They didn't bother to research it. The "hard" shifter and clutch, as well as the ride are all subjective. So I can't say they were wrong here. My opinion is that a mountain was made out of a mole hill to make the car look bad. The drag race was a complete slap in the face to the car.

I said it on the first page and I'll say it again. They approached this review with the attitude of "how bad can we make this car look?". When they posted the lap times there was no mention that the cars it beat were several thousand dollars/pounds more expensive than the C6 (which got one sloppy lap BTW). If you pause the video you can see that it beats the Porsche GT3 and their beloved TVR. No mention of its stellar fuel economy. The only positive comments were after the younger gentleman drove it. And then it was mainly tongue-in-cheek defense of it with the cohost.

f-bodman

My real argument with this review is that they miss the real point of the new C6, no it's not the best car out there, it's not even close to being considered a supercar. The point of the C6 (or C5 for that matter) is value, you can barely touch this cars performance for twice the price. And if they don't like the C6's interior I'd hate to see what they had to say about the C5's.

Till

Just a little detail, the place is called Nurburgring, with two dots over the first u. Don't know if this will show up correctly, but this is the correct spelling: Nürburgring.

That sub 8 minute lap time for a stock Z06, isn't that just a rumor. I have heard it before, but there was no official time taken, was there? Was it ever published in a magazine?
Even if there was a time below 8 minutes, there are faster Porsches (that cost at least twice as much as the Z06).

At least in Germany, american cars are famous for their bad handling, bad braking, and terrible gas mileage. If I show up at a track with my corvette, there are alway people that look at me like they feel really sorry for me having to drive a car like that. When someone asks me about the gas mileage, and I tell them, they think I am lying, even if they don't say so to my face.

And who's fault is that? Chevrolet Europe did such a bad job in recent years. If there is a magazine asking them for a car for a track test, they would give them an automatic with the base suspension. Just because some marketing idiot told them that the automatic is just as fast as the manual (I'm not making this up, it's true). The Z06 would have been perfect for Germany - so they decided not to sell it over here. There are cooling problems with the C5 that could be fixed for around €2000 - they never cared to look into that. The brakes are insufficient, and they never cared to fix that. A sports car that overheats within 20 minutes on the autobahn and needs new brake discs all the time is just an embarassment.

I wonder to which degree the new C6 Z51 package is tailored towards the German market. There is the extra cooling, bigger breaks and improved suspension. It just seems too perfect, they will probably not sell it over here.

Till

Dean-o

Yeah, my bad on the spelling. Here are some articles for your info. They are regarding the overheating you speak of and the performance of a Z06 vs a Porsche.

Article 1 (Z06 vs Porsche)

If there ever was a Chevy with value; it's the Corvette Z06. The "bang" is performance and those cars are 3100-lb. bunker buster bombs, right through the doors at foreign car companies, particularly the Germans, which once ruled the hard-core fringe of the high-sports segment. Deafened by the blast, their marketing types are left crying, "Die Amerikaner...sie treten unsere Zugpferde mit dieser Z06 und das zu einem Preis mit dem wir nicht mithalten können!" Rough translation: The Americans are kicking our *** with this 'Z06' and doing it at a price we can't match.

Its charter is simple: extreme performance presented in a civilized manner at reasonable cost. Three years after its 2001 introduction, this car is a benchmark by which sports cars for aggressive drivers are judged. On race tracks and autocross courses all over America, it spanks cars carrying prestigious foreign nameplates and costing upwards of half-again its price.

Don't believe me?

Famed road racer and GM Performance Division Chief Engineer, John Heinricy, has driven a Z06 to three-straight SCCA T1 Class National Championships, besting Vipers, Porsches and whatever else the persistent but still loosing side wants to throw at America's Sports Car.


Article 2 (testing)

CORVETTE TESTING
WARREN, Mich. - Chevrolet Corvette has been called "America's favorite sports car" for its ability to deliver proven power and performance in a production model. At Chevrolet, we take great pride in Corvette's status and work diligently to ensure it will remain a source of automotive awe and inspiration for years to come. That is why Corvette is subjected to the same general durability testing as all other General Motors vehicles. Then, it's tested even further, with three additional tests - 250 miles of autocross, 24 hours on the racetrack and top speed at wide-open throttle - to ensure that America's sports car is ready for high-performance use.
Autocross
The autocross portion of the testing includes 250 miles on an autocross course. It takes about five fuel tank loads to complete the 250 miles, with a total vehicle inspection at every fuel stop. Instrumentation monitors everything, from oil pressure to transmission temperature. This test is a precursor to the 24 hours on a race track.
24 Hours on the Racetrack
After the autocross test, Corvette spends 24 hours at competition speeds on a road course.
"It's really the equivalent of 24 individual sprint races, each lasting one hour," explains Mike Neal, Corvette ride and handling chassis development. "It takes about an hour at track speed to consume a tank of fuel. The car then comes in; we check and top off fluids, replace brakes and tires, download our instrumentation and send the car out again. We do this until the car has completed 24 hours on the track."
The 2.2-mile road course used to validate the '02 Z06 consists of a 120-mph straightaway, 90-mph sweeping curves and 40-mph hairpins. The drivers make 12 shifts per lap and brake 10 times per lap. "Compared to the 2001 Z06, the 2002 model is half a second faster around our test track," adds Neal.
Throughout the testing, equipment monitors and records 30 channels of thermal information from critical components and fluids. In addition to the temperature readings, other pertinent data is collected and analyzed, including, oil pressure, engine rpm, vehicle speed, lateral acceleration, as well as fore and aft acceleration.
"For the Corvette, this additional testing is essential in validating the robustness of the vehicle for racing application," explains Neal. "In the case of the 2002 Z06, the track-testing phase was key in helping us determine that a new clutch design was needed."
The clutch of the 2001 Z06 had already been enhanced to deal with the increased power of the LS6 (over the LS1); with the additional power of the 2002 LS6, a new clutch design was developed to ensure long life and good performance.
"Our 24 hours of at racing speeds is an invaluable complement to our normal durability testing," says Dave Hill, Performance Cars vehicle line executive and Corvette chief engineer. "It's one test that is severe enough to give Corvette the robustness our owners expect. It's what makes Corvette stand out among the competition."
Top Speed Wide-Open Throttle
To simulate high-speed, autobahn conditions, Corvette is subjected to a wide-open throttle test on our five-mile circle track at the Milford Proving Grounds in Milford, Michigan. Starting with a full tank of gas, the car is driven flat-out at its 171-mph top speed until the fuel tank is empty - approximately 30 minutes. The test validates the car's ability to withstand extreme thermal loads reliably.


They never mentioned any over heating issues? In fact they never mentioned any braking issues, etc. I haven't heard of the issues you speak of from anyone here in the states. Are ya'll driving the same cars?
The record at Nurburgring was documented and I read about it, I will have to find the article. And the record was for stock production vehicles. I am not impressed with Porsches, they are way too expensive for what you get, but that is just my opinion.

Dean

Till

I agree. The corvette also looks much better.

In the test you quote, they drove at top speed for 30 minutes. That really tells you everything you need to know. With any German car, you can do that all day long. A 30 minute test is a joke.

Just look at the C6 Z51. They seem to have adressed exactly those problems. Bigger brakes, cooling pumps for the manual transmission and diff. This car should be much better equiped for German conditions.

Till

ArmyVette

Having lived in Germany for an extended period and driven on the autoban frequently, I can categorically tell you that drivers on the autoban DON'T "do it all day long." The recommended top speed on the autoban is 70 mph (or about 112 kilometers/hour). Most drivers drive around that number. Only occasionally do you find the lunatic fringe driver cruising along at 120 mph plus. Also, you don't find people in the left hand lane EVER unless they are passing someone in the right lane. When somebody has an accident on the autoban, they don't send an ambulance. They send the coroner.

Here's the other misconception. "Everybody in Europe (especially Germany) drives Porsches, BMW, or Mercedes sport cars." Not even close. That's like saying that everybody in North America drives Vettes. Just like here, most people in Europe are driving 4 and 6 banger econo-boxes. In fact, the largest selling cars in Europe are FORDS!! That's why Europeans also have car clubs, so that like-minded folks can sit around, drink, and berate the other car clubs. When was the last time you heard of the European Ford Focus Car Club? (Actually, I don't think there is one; just making a example. Of course, I could be wrong; one really might exist. )

The Vette is an American production-line car, built for American roads. It's longer, wider, low profiled, made for long straight roads, and meets American emission standards. With a few minor changes, it can be used as an export model.

The Porsche, BMW, and Mercedes vehicles are made for European roads, which means they are much shorter, often much narrower, are made for driving on narrow, twisting roads, and only within the past decade was any thought given to emissions control. They must be more heavily modified to export to the US, which is part of the reason they are in such limited supply here.

It's nice that your driving our beloved American sportscar but if you're so convinced that the Vette doesn't match up to the Porsche, Beamer, or Merc, pass that nice Vette over to your little brother or sister. I'm sure they'll appreciate the gesture and love the car....without the prejudice.

Dean-o

The 30 minute test was all they could do with a full tank of gas...LOL! If you try to drive at top speed for longer than that you will have an empty tank, at which point you will be walking. I don't think any car should be required to run at top speed indefinitely. I think top speed for a full tank of gas is plenty good because there are no roads here where you could run top speed for even 10 mintues...LOL!
You should get a Z06 over here and ship it to Germany.

Till

Hey ArmyVette,

how can I be prejudiced when I drive a vette myself? That doesn't even make sense.

Maybe you should try and actually read my post.

Are you suggesting I don't know what I am talking about?

And what you wrote about German road conditions is total bs. There are actually very few lethal accidents due to fast driving on the Autobahn. 50% of the lethal accidents on the Autobahn are actually due to trucks driving into traffic jams.
The number of lethal car accidents per capita in Germany is higher than it is in the USA. The majority of these accidents happen on the winding country roads, and they all have a speed limit of 62 mph or less.

And yes, there are people that go really fast, and they do it for more than thirty minutes. So you have to get gas sometime - big deal. Where does it say you can't drive, stop to get gas, and then go on?

The corvette is much more capable than that. It's not made for just going straight at low speeds. The handling is excellent, even with the run craps very close to a stock 911. At a lower price, a C5 Z06 spanks the stock 911, and may even be close to a GT3 (That's a $50000 car versus a $110000 car).

Do you just make this stuff up? A C5 is about the same size as an Audi A6, Bmw 5 series or Mercedes E class. It should fit on the same roads then, shouldn't it? The C6 is actually the same size as a 911.

This is just uncalled for. It doesn't reflect what I wrote, and it doesn't make any sense.

Till

I already got all the extra cooling, bigger brakes, Penske coilovers, cage, race seats, etc.

Here a picture on the Nürburgring GP track, it's the yellow, white and black car:
http://213.69.169.20/privat/corvette...P/P2142021.JPG

I am not rich and bored enough to start with a new car anytime soon.

Till

stevieturbo

I have glanced through most of this thread, and havent actually seen teh top gear article.

Top Gears humour is a bit strange at times, and I live in the UK
Their races, and drivers also sometimes leave a lot to be desired, but they do it I think so it makes good viewing, not to prove which car is actually faster..
Im sure the Z51 is an excellent car, but there are downsides in the UK. Steering wheel on the wrong side is a major one. The hard suspension you mention may be more noticeable here as our roads are crap. We pay through the nose to use them, but nobody seems to bother maintaining them very well despite roadworks creating congestion everywhere.

You touch on the TVR in Swordfish, a car here that costs around £40k. Relatively speaking a bargain for the performance it offers.

I checked on prices for the C6, Z51, and I see some places offering it for sale for around £50k. At todays exchange rate that equates to almost US $90k. So while the Corvette may be a bargain on the US, it is far from a bargain in the UK, unless you try and import one privately. So the cars you are comparing it to, such as the GT3 Porsche almost fall into a similar price bracket.

GEAR M UP

I wonder why we left England and went to America.

If it’s not a Diesel, they don’t like it. They were pised because they had to spend $60 to fill up the tank.....

The C6 ranked 6th on that list, not to bad for the list of cars.