Blackwing vs Vortex Intake
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Launching!
Joined: Sep 2004
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Blackwing vs Vortex Intake What are the differences bewteen the Blackwing & Vortex...
I'm looking to cool the intake charge a bit, and think the Vortex might do this better- since it's a true ram-air, rather than the Blackwing(without shrough)
which suck air from the engine compartment- Application on a Z06.
I've been getting some pinging at low rpm's(1.5-2K) in higher gears, on very hot days (88-95 degrees).
Rolling along, does the Vortex really make some slight boost effect???? I know this might be minimal?
I'm looking to cool the intake charge a bit, and think the Vortex might do this better- since it's a true ram-air, rather than the Blackwing(without shrough)
which suck air from the engine compartment- Application on a Z06.
I've been getting some pinging at low rpm's(1.5-2K) in higher gears, on very hot days (88-95 degrees).
Rolling along, does the Vortex really make some slight boost effect???? I know this might be minimal?
If you want to add cooler outside air, the blackwing alone will not give you the solution you are looking for. The Vortex requires a hole in the radiator shroud for the cooler outside air. The cooler air is more dense and that is where the added power comes from. If you take a blackwing, cut the shroud and add an IceBox cover, it will be more effective because of a larger hole required and a better filter. The Veraram uses outside air and supplies more air volume than the Vortex, this helps at higher RPM's to make more power. Because of the twin flow of the Veraram, more turbulance is created and the PCM requires tuning to make max use of the system. The Hurricane is the largest opening for cold air and is reported to have the highest peak hp. Ram air is another factor, at 80 mph you may have up to 0.75% increase in hp, about 140 it will be 2%, but if you can get it up to 340 mph, then Ram air starts to kick in with about 20% increase. One final thought, the maximum benefits of the cold air systems in not on the dyno but on the road with cooler air entering into the engine. FWIW.
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Launching!
Joined: Sep 2004
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With the Vortex, I would ofcourse use the cut-out- this is standard. The Blackwing with the icebox, throws lean codes on 2004 Z06's.. I had this, and had to remove it...
I believe the Blackwing without the icebox, is primarily sucking hot/warm engine compartment air. The Vortex would be sucking cooler street air and while moving a slight decrease in temps...When temps are 88-95 degrees out, I have to think the air the Blackwing is sucking is 100-140 degrees..
The Vortex, should in theory, suck 90-110??? air.. This should transilate into lower intake air temps into the motor which should (I think???) improve the slight pinging I hear at low rpm's (1.3-2K) -while in a higher gear under light to moderate acceleration.. This should/might give me a slight increase in peak power, since every 10 degrees increase or reduction in intake temps equals to about a 1% in power.
When outside temps are lower than 85-83? degrees I get no pinging at all. When temps are 50-60 degrees, fall/spring i can relly notice an increase in power.
Does this make sense?
I believe the Blackwing without the icebox, is primarily sucking hot/warm engine compartment air. The Vortex would be sucking cooler street air and while moving a slight decrease in temps...When temps are 88-95 degrees out, I have to think the air the Blackwing is sucking is 100-140 degrees..
The Vortex, should in theory, suck 90-110??? air.. This should transilate into lower intake air temps into the motor which should (I think???) improve the slight pinging I hear at low rpm's (1.3-2K) -while in a higher gear under light to moderate acceleration.. This should/might give me a slight increase in peak power, since every 10 degrees increase or reduction in intake temps equals to about a 1% in power.
When outside temps are lower than 85-83? degrees I get no pinging at all. When temps are 50-60 degrees, fall/spring i can relly notice an increase in power.
Does this make sense?
With your mods, any changes you make should be followed up with a scan tune. Also, the scan would probably show your injectors are past the 80% duty cycle, Incoming Air Temps, and why you have the pinging. Remember, if you hear pinging, the engine usually is still having issues even when you cannot hear it.
With the Blackwing, while cruising down the road, the air will be a higher temp than the Vortex at lower speeds and get closer to the Vortex as speeds increase. If it is 85 outside, at highway speeds, a scan will probably show IAT in the 80-90 range.
Something else to consider, for the C6 Z06, GM is going to a Donaldson air filter. If you have an Icebox for the Blackwing, make sure it is tightly sealed to the shroud, otherwise the small amount of warm engine air will also mix with the ambient air and cause the PCM problems with accel/decel, idle and result with engine codes. The same is true with the Vortex.
With the Blackwing, while cruising down the road, the air will be a higher temp than the Vortex at lower speeds and get closer to the Vortex as speeds increase. If it is 85 outside, at highway speeds, a scan will probably show IAT in the 80-90 range.
Something else to consider, for the C6 Z06, GM is going to a Donaldson air filter. If you have an Icebox for the Blackwing, make sure it is tightly sealed to the shroud, otherwise the small amount of warm engine air will also mix with the ambient air and cause the PCM problems with accel/decel, idle and result with engine codes. The same is true with the Vortex.
Hey I know these are not on the TOPIC but how about Vararam / Haltech. The Vararam I figured probably pull the most cold air from outside with great HP #'s. And the Haltech I figured would beat out the Blackwing and the Vortex as well.
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Launching!
Joined: Sep 2004
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Originally Posted by Gordy M
With your mods, any changes you make should be followed up with a scan tune. Also, the scan would probably show your injectors are past the 80% duty cycle, Incoming Air Temps, and why you have the pinging. Remember, if you hear pinging, the engine usually is still having issues even when you cannot hear it.
With the Blackwing, while cruising down the road, the air will be a higher temp than the Vortex at lower speeds and get closer to the Vortex as speeds increase. If it is 85 outside, at highway speeds, a scan will probably show IAT in the 80-90 range.
Something else to consider, for the C6 Z06, GM is going to a Donaldson air filter. If you have an Icebox for the Blackwing, make sure it is tightly sealed to the shroud, otherwise the small amount of warm engine air will also mix with the ambient air and cause the PCM problems with accel/decel, idle and result with engine codes. The same is true with the Vortex.
With the Blackwing, while cruising down the road, the air will be a higher temp than the Vortex at lower speeds and get closer to the Vortex as speeds increase. If it is 85 outside, at highway speeds, a scan will probably show IAT in the 80-90 range.
Something else to consider, for the C6 Z06, GM is going to a Donaldson air filter. If you have an Icebox for the Blackwing, make sure it is tightly sealed to the shroud, otherwise the small amount of warm engine air will also mix with the ambient air and cause the PCM problems with accel/decel, idle and result with engine codes. The same is true with the Vortex.
It seems to me that my issue is temp and/or octane related.. Since lowering intake temps is easier, more reliable and more cost effective then octane booster- Does this make sense???
Thanks for the input!
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Where are you located, maybe a member of the forum lives near you and you can get a good scan reading. You may be able to get rid of most of the knock with colder air, but you are only putting a bandaid on the problem.
Larger injectors, scan, PCM tune and you will eliminate you issues. Even with cold, dense air, you can still have knock issues which will pull timing and cause the PCM to run rich. It sound that the PCM is pulling timing already if you notice that large a change in performance from 60 to 85 deg.
Larger injectors, scan, PCM tune and you will eliminate you issues. Even with cold, dense air, you can still have knock issues which will pull timing and cause the PCM to run rich. It sound that the PCM is pulling timing already if you notice that large a change in performance from 60 to 85 deg.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Sep 2004
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I live outside of Chicago...
My last tune and dyno run show good A/F's and nice power for my mod's (over 400 hp & over 400 tq).
I'm getting the Vortex installed tomorrow- might have some input after or over the weekend after a run some.
My last tune and dyno run show good A/F's and nice power for my mod's (over 400 hp & over 400 tq).
I'm getting the Vortex installed tomorrow- might have some input after or over the weekend after a run some.
