MotorTrend Car of the Year
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MotorTrend Car of the Year So the last MT I picked up had CotY as a Civic. That's fine.
What gets me is one statement, saying the "sporty" version did .9g on the skidpad. Then they say "That's Corvette territory". I'm not sure how I feel about that statement.
There's a lot of play in how magazines test cars - you get surprisingly different times and specs for different magazines. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it did actually pull .9g; after all, I think the article weighed it at ~2800 lbs. Something just doesn't seem right. It's got skinny 215 series tires, granted its lighter, maybe it does pull .9g, but the thought of a "sporty" Civic being able to keep pace through the twisties with a Corvette seems kind of...unrealistic.
I think that the weight is the only thing going for the Civic - it's basically a small unibody car. When you up the ante, and shoot for 170, 180, 190 as a top speed, you have to have bigger everything - a stronger frame, heavier-duty suspension, bigger tires, brakes, motor, drivetrain, etc. and that plus the space requirements for two big Americans and some luggage adds up weight. But the thought of a Civic keeping pace just...I don't know, I can't admit to myself that just by being lighter it could possibly keep up.
What gets me is one statement, saying the "sporty" version did .9g on the skidpad. Then they say "That's Corvette territory". I'm not sure how I feel about that statement.
There's a lot of play in how magazines test cars - you get surprisingly different times and specs for different magazines. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it did actually pull .9g; after all, I think the article weighed it at ~2800 lbs. Something just doesn't seem right. It's got skinny 215 series tires, granted its lighter, maybe it does pull .9g, but the thought of a "sporty" Civic being able to keep pace through the twisties with a Corvette seems kind of...unrealistic.
I think that the weight is the only thing going for the Civic - it's basically a small unibody car. When you up the ante, and shoot for 170, 180, 190 as a top speed, you have to have bigger everything - a stronger frame, heavier-duty suspension, bigger tires, brakes, motor, drivetrain, etc. and that plus the space requirements for two big Americans and some luggage adds up weight. But the thought of a Civic keeping pace just...I don't know, I can't admit to myself that just by being lighter it could possibly keep up.
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Originally Posted by Adnectere
So the last MT I picked up had CotY as a Civic. That's fine.
What gets me is one statement, saying the "sporty" version did .9g on the skidpad. Then they say "That's Corvette territory". I'm not sure how I feel about that statement.
There's a lot of play in how magazines test cars - you get surprisingly different times and specs for different magazines. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it did actually pull .9g; after all, I think the article weighed it at ~2800 lbs. Something just doesn't seem right. It's got skinny 215 series tires, granted its lighter, maybe it does pull .9g, but the thought of a "sporty" Civic being able to keep pace through the twisties with a Corvette seems kind of...unrealistic.
I think that the weight is the only thing going for the Civic - it's basically a small unibody car. When you up the ante, and shoot for 170, 180, 190 as a top speed, you have to have bigger everything - a stronger frame, heavier-duty suspension, bigger tires, brakes, motor, drivetrain, etc. and that plus the space requirements for two big Americans and some luggage adds up weight. But the thought of a Civic keeping pace just...I don't know, I can't admit to myself that just by being lighter it could possibly keep up.
What gets me is one statement, saying the "sporty" version did .9g on the skidpad. Then they say "That's Corvette territory". I'm not sure how I feel about that statement.
There's a lot of play in how magazines test cars - you get surprisingly different times and specs for different magazines. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it did actually pull .9g; after all, I think the article weighed it at ~2800 lbs. Something just doesn't seem right. It's got skinny 215 series tires, granted its lighter, maybe it does pull .9g, but the thought of a "sporty" Civic being able to keep pace through the twisties with a Corvette seems kind of...unrealistic.
I think that the weight is the only thing going for the Civic - it's basically a small unibody car. When you up the ante, and shoot for 170, 180, 190 as a top speed, you have to have bigger everything - a stronger frame, heavier-duty suspension, bigger tires, brakes, motor, drivetrain, etc. and that plus the space requirements for two big Americans and some luggage adds up weight. But the thought of a Civic keeping pace just...I don't know, I can't admit to myself that just by being lighter it could possibly keep up.
and then when they admit they have never been to the track... 
Dave
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From: TX
I'll be the first to admit that a ricer generally doesn't know jack.
And their driving skills typically aren't the highest - feeling tire limits, finding apexes etc.
But I'm talking about the raw vehicles themselves.
cantdrv - if the skidpad is a measure of overall grip & the maximum lateral force the car can handle, it should matter. Say you're on the track with both cars carrying the same amount of speed, one following right after the other in the same corner. If both cars have the same skidpad rating, they should, at peak cornering at the limit of adhesion, carry the same speed through the turn. (I know that entering and leaving the brake/accel are going to play different roles, I'm only talking about 100% cornering).
And their driving skills typically aren't the highest - feeling tire limits, finding apexes etc.
But I'm talking about the raw vehicles themselves.
cantdrv - if the skidpad is a measure of overall grip & the maximum lateral force the car can handle, it should matter. Say you're on the track with both cars carrying the same amount of speed, one following right after the other in the same corner. If both cars have the same skidpad rating, they should, at peak cornering at the limit of adhesion, carry the same speed through the turn. (I know that entering and leaving the brake/accel are going to play different roles, I'm only talking about 100% cornering).
I have road raced with a modified civic and his car was the only car at the track that could corner with my z06. I admit his car was stripped with a rollcage and braced frame so it probably only weighed 2200 lbs. We both had hoosiers. On the two straights I pulled away from him but if I slowed and let him catch up I could not pull away in the twistys. Light weight is really a big deal in cornering speed. BTW I hate the dinky little cars.
I know magazines are a source for information but they but out so much bullshit and misinformation that you kind of have to know something about what the article is about to separate the truth from the baloney. If the driver is a dork he will rate the test car a lot differently than someone who is a hot shoe who can drive. Compare a vette to a porsche or a viper not a stupid econo car.
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Thread Starter
On The Tree
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From: TX
I'll agree with you that numbers on a page don't mean a lot and that magazines sometimes have what I consider questionable results. I'm not so sure that some magazines don't drive some cars harder than others as well.
But any car that can stack up past say .85g I'd call a sporty car at the least. And past .9g is what I'd call at least solid. I'm sure someone can come up with a giant car that pulls .9g, but the point is in general.
I don't think a Civic could normally hold a candle to a Corvette. But the comparison and similarity in the one test is why I raised the question - because there is that doubt. And I'll agree wholeheartedly with earlier posts in that light weight primarily is the answer. Small tires, worse weight distribution, fwd, etc. (4 doors
) are all detractors from a serious sports car. But it did post, at any rate, a high number.
But any car that can stack up past say .85g I'd call a sporty car at the least. And past .9g is what I'd call at least solid. I'm sure someone can come up with a giant car that pulls .9g, but the point is in general.
I don't think a Civic could normally hold a candle to a Corvette. But the comparison and similarity in the one test is why I raised the question - because there is that doubt. And I'll agree wholeheartedly with earlier posts in that light weight primarily is the answer. Small tires, worse weight distribution, fwd, etc. (4 doors
) are all detractors from a serious sports car. But it did post, at any rate, a high number. LS1 Tech Stories
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I really dislike handling comparisons in magazines, especially when the 2 cars have nowhere near the same quality/width tires.
As far as driving "feel" i can bet the civic will feel pretty decent especially in the canyons.
As far as driving "feel" i can bet the civic will feel pretty decent especially in the canyons.
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I'll agree. The tires are wildly different - that was one of the things that threw me. A set of 215's. Bit on the small side you could say.
Of course I'm not saying they're equal - I don't think, and doubt, that the Civic's are even Z-rated.
But with smaller power and lighter weights, you don't need a big tire. It's not like you're going to be smoking them.
And on a Corvette, the tires are more important, you can reach and breach that limit faster and sooner. I'm sure you can overtire the Civic, but not sure if you can really overtire a Corvette. Quality: I know most manufacturers pick things like comfort, vibration, noise level, etc. over sheer grip. After all, it is a run-flat even if it's one heck of one. Some things overpower sheer grip in the decision process. But the comparison of the 1 spec is all that I was curious about. Good replies all.
Of course I'm not saying they're equal - I don't think, and doubt, that the Civic's are even Z-rated.
But with smaller power and lighter weights, you don't need a big tire. It's not like you're going to be smoking them.
And on a Corvette, the tires are more important, you can reach and breach that limit faster and sooner. I'm sure you can overtire the Civic, but not sure if you can really overtire a Corvette. Quality: I know most manufacturers pick things like comfort, vibration, noise level, etc. over sheer grip. After all, it is a run-flat even if it's one heck of one. Some things overpower sheer grip in the decision process. But the comparison of the 1 spec is all that I was curious about. Good replies all.
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Skid pad g has bugger all to do with a cars REAL capability.
As when cornering, balance, feel, control are far more important. Along with communication, turn in, and how quickly the car can change direction.
A smaller lighter car WILL be able to pull more g on a skid pad. Get OVER it!!
It doesn't make you any less of a man, or make your e-dick any smaller. It's physics.
A Stock Mk1 Elsie with small tyres should top 1.1g on a skid pad.
And no a Civic should not keep pace with a new C6, as it takes the whole package to make it work, the Vette has good turn in, decent brakes, a little skittish on exit perhaps but it does have a lot more power.
But yes small cars with little engines can be very quick, back in the 60's a 1.3 Mini Cooper would keep up with big V8 Fords, even Mustangs and Camaro's around a race circuit.
See the little Lotus Cortina chasing down the Mustang:
As when cornering, balance, feel, control are far more important. Along with communication, turn in, and how quickly the car can change direction.
A smaller lighter car WILL be able to pull more g on a skid pad. Get OVER it!!
It doesn't make you any less of a man, or make your e-dick any smaller. It's physics.
A Stock Mk1 Elsie with small tyres should top 1.1g on a skid pad.
And no a Civic should not keep pace with a new C6, as it takes the whole package to make it work, the Vette has good turn in, decent brakes, a little skittish on exit perhaps but it does have a lot more power.
But yes small cars with little engines can be very quick, back in the 60's a 1.3 Mini Cooper would keep up with big V8 Fords, even Mustangs and Camaro's around a race circuit.
See the little Lotus Cortina chasing down the Mustang:
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I'll agree with you on that 300bhp. I never meant to say a Civic could go toe-to-toe with a Corvette bone-stock. I only meant in a corner at 100%. Of course, entering and exiting the corner and on the straighter parts, the Corvette eats it alive.
I got nausous when I saw the list of contenders, two hyundais, one kia, and the HHR, among them,give me a break! when they showed them all in a pic, the MX5[miata]was listed number one.I can still taste the bile as it regergitated into my throat.
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From: England
Car of the year is always a sham and nearly always won by an average boring car.
Becuase an average boring car is often the best 'all rounder', which is what car of the year is all about.
A Corvette is too expensive, too impractical, too costly to run, too OTT to ever win.
If it was Performance Car of the Year, then it would be a different story.
Becuase an average boring car is often the best 'all rounder', which is what car of the year is all about.
A Corvette is too expensive, too impractical, too costly to run, too OTT to ever win.
If it was Performance Car of the Year, then it would be a different story.
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I think those last two posts pretty much hit the nail on the head.
BTW The Civic Si making the coty and the quote that the .9g was vette territory...when reading it, it all felt like I was in one of those TMobile Poser Mobile ads
BTW The Civic Si making the coty and the quote that the .9g was vette territory...when reading it, it all felt like I was in one of those TMobile Poser Mobile ads
