APS C6 ZO6 twin turbo system pics and install instructions
09-13-2007, 02:24 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by Vindication
Were you thinking about using a C6 Z06 APS TT kit on a C5 Z06?
The moral of the post is: I will not purchase from a company who engages in shady practices. Just to clear your mind, I was considering the C5 kit.
09-13-2007, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by bonestockz06
Are you out of your mind? You should have known the answer to that before asking such a stupid question. I suggest you stay on the topic and in case you still don't understand, NO I AM NOT PUTTING A C6 KIT ON A C5.
The moral of the post is: I will not purchase from a company who engages in shady practices. Just to clear your mind, I was considering the C5 kit.
The moral of the post is: I will not purchase from a company who engages in shady practices. Just to clear your mind, I was considering the C5 kit.
Whoa you need to clam down! FYI, there was talks LOOONNNGGGG time ago about people putting C5 kits on C6s for the reason of the C5 kit having bigger turbos and having wastegates. Peter never denied this was possible and in fact if you ask Brabus 2 (a very informed person about APS kits) questioned the move to use a C5 kit on his C6. Now I thought maybe you were putting a C6Z06 kit because of the larger turbos and better superior parts over the C5, C6 kits. Its nothing out of this world that couldnt be done with some custom parts and some money. So chill the F out.
09-13-2007, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Vindication
Whoa you need to clam down! FYI, there was talks LOOONNNGGGG time ago about people putting C5 kits on C6s for the reason of the C5 kit having bigger turbos and having wastegates. Peter never denied this was possible and in fact if you ask Brabus 2 (a very informed person about APS kits) questioned the move to use a C5 kit on his C6. Now I thought maybe you were putting a C6Z06 kit because of the larger turbos and better superior parts over the C5, C6 kits. Its nothing out of this world that couldnt be done with some custom parts and some money. So chill the F out.
09-13-2007, 03:26 PM
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I wish, I still have the stock motor with 34k on the clock. I have so far 10k to spend over the winter and I'm leaning turbo 80% Pro-charger 20%. I'm only looking for 550 rwhp but the sound of the turbo's are SICK and thats why turbo is winning the wager.
I been looking around and I know APS has one if not the best kit (IMO) but I'm not for all these ridiculous I can't explain in detail charges. Either way, I thought you were being a smart *** when you asked the question, but now I see the sense.
Good luck with your kit and post the results. I know they make sick power.
I been looking around and I know APS has one if not the best kit (IMO) but I'm not for all these ridiculous I can't explain in detail charges. Either way, I thought you were being a smart *** when you asked the question, but now I see the sense.
Good luck with your kit and post the results. I know they make sick power.
09-13-2007, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
Understood.....
I also understand thats its also a lower production run (you guys are doing 50 right)
I also understand thats its also a lower production run (you guys are doing 50 right)
Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
Yes, they should cost more.. There is NO WAY on this earth there is 7 grand in upgrades over and above the C5 kit.. Not a chance on this earth..
400 for an oil cooler, 1200 exhaust, 1500 fuel system, 1500 in turbos, 400 in wastegates.. Even when overinflating some of the parts listed above, you are STILL 2 grand away from the price difference..
It is "Upcharging" plain and simple..
400 for an oil cooler, 1200 exhaust, 1500 fuel system, 1500 in turbos, 400 in wastegates.. Even when overinflating some of the parts listed above, you are STILL 2 grand away from the price difference..
It is "Upcharging" plain and simple..
Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
Isnt the C5 kit about 400-500 in shipping?? So the extra exhaust and fuel system costs 600 to ship??? Again, there is NO WAY..
Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
I would ust LOVE to understand how the F-body Twin Turbo kit runs 4995.00 plus about 500 bucks in shipping, but the C6 Z kit costs 13,995 + 1000 in shipping.. 
Peter
09-15-2007, 02:13 AM
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In this ad, you state that your selling them for 5995.00 (Including free shipping at a 500 dollatr value) This is limited to 30 kits..(Even though you keep extending the sale)
According to your post, it comes with a TON of high end pats.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/760677-aps-f-body-twin-turbo-system-5495-twin-turbo-deal-extended-oct-07-a.html
According to this thread you were doing a mid year sale for 6500 bucks +595 for shipping.. Now one could say that "Its a sale" but you've had 2 or 3 major sales in a years time.. So the chances of having to spend 8000 + 650 in shipping are slim to none.
Also, according to your MANY high profile posts with quotes from your "Engineers", you have stated that the C5 kit parts are second to none..
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...light=aps+sale
Although I can appreciate the quest for making more money, it just seems that you come on to these forums with sooooo much arrogance, that you almost believe were either stupid, or just to rich to care..
I am NOT green to the F/I arena in these cars. And I know for a fact that: 1 It does NOT cost 500-600 to ship and entire twin turbo system, but it costs another 400-500 to ship a catback, oil cooler, and the fuel system. I'd be willing to bet, the ALL of the additional parts could be fit in one 12x20x20 box. With the exception of the catback. I mean hell, your giving Tial 38mm wastegates in the original kit.. How much heavier and expensive do it get to go from 38's-44's?? How big is the oil cooler?? 11"20"x2" Big f'ing deal.. Its not like your shipping lead weights..
The kit itself:
According to your posts, you state how top of the line your C5 kits are, and that how BB turbos arent necessary to make any power, but your trying to get members to choke down 7 grand in upgrades??
Its just a pretty sad day that when the greatest amount of members who own the APS kit and hang out on the forums, think that you guys are promoters who could ultimately care a less about the end user.. Go onto the CF. You will see that 95% of all members who own your kit feel like they were dupped into buying something that hasnt made the grade.. But you should know that..Cause you not only blasted DIRECT insults at your customers, but admitted on open forums that American tuners DONT know what their doing...
I'm still blown away that you criticised W2W. And questioned their abilities..
All I'm saying is, is you can probably pull the wool over some fools eyes every once in a while and get top dollar (Mark) But it wont be for long. Not when there are companies like TTi who are willing to bend over backwards, and NOT criticize, but understand..
After hearing that Mark "Vindication" is landing your kit on the cover of Vette Magazine, not to mention a few others, and you didnt even as much as give him a slight discount on shipping.. Hell, he has to pay twice..Once to his home, then once to ship it to W2W.. You should be thanking him. Because if ANY C6Z is gonna make your kit actually look like it has the ability to make solid power, its Marks car.. If it were me, I would pull the kit all together and go with a company with a little more backing.. I mean hell, with the car, the guys 115+ grand in already.. You didnt even give him a free set of sparkplugs??
Any way you slice it, you are gouging the small market of C6Z owners. And when you do, (especially with your cocky attitude) you will find that you will have quite a few of these kits sitting on the shelves.. Corvette Owners are NOT like 350Z drivers. Corvette Guys migrate to the next newest body style. Your pricing strategy (not to mention arrogance) will eventually do nothing but put your company in a hurtin..
According to your post, it comes with a TON of high end pats.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/760677-aps-f-body-twin-turbo-system-5495-twin-turbo-deal-extended-oct-07-a.html
According to this thread you were doing a mid year sale for 6500 bucks +595 for shipping.. Now one could say that "Its a sale" but you've had 2 or 3 major sales in a years time.. So the chances of having to spend 8000 + 650 in shipping are slim to none.
Also, according to your MANY high profile posts with quotes from your "Engineers", you have stated that the C5 kit parts are second to none..
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...light=aps+sale
Although I can appreciate the quest for making more money, it just seems that you come on to these forums with sooooo much arrogance, that you almost believe were either stupid, or just to rich to care..
I am NOT green to the F/I arena in these cars. And I know for a fact that: 1 It does NOT cost 500-600 to ship and entire twin turbo system, but it costs another 400-500 to ship a catback, oil cooler, and the fuel system. I'd be willing to bet, the ALL of the additional parts could be fit in one 12x20x20 box. With the exception of the catback. I mean hell, your giving Tial 38mm wastegates in the original kit.. How much heavier and expensive do it get to go from 38's-44's?? How big is the oil cooler?? 11"20"x2" Big f'ing deal.. Its not like your shipping lead weights..
The kit itself:
According to your posts, you state how top of the line your C5 kits are, and that how BB turbos arent necessary to make any power, but your trying to get members to choke down 7 grand in upgrades??
Its just a pretty sad day that when the greatest amount of members who own the APS kit and hang out on the forums, think that you guys are promoters who could ultimately care a less about the end user.. Go onto the CF. You will see that 95% of all members who own your kit feel like they were dupped into buying something that hasnt made the grade.. But you should know that..Cause you not only blasted DIRECT insults at your customers, but admitted on open forums that American tuners DONT know what their doing...
I'm still blown away that you criticised W2W. And questioned their abilities..
All I'm saying is, is you can probably pull the wool over some fools eyes every once in a while and get top dollar (Mark) But it wont be for long. Not when there are companies like TTi who are willing to bend over backwards, and NOT criticize, but understand..
After hearing that Mark "Vindication" is landing your kit on the cover of Vette Magazine, not to mention a few others, and you didnt even as much as give him a slight discount on shipping.. Hell, he has to pay twice..Once to his home, then once to ship it to W2W.. You should be thanking him. Because if ANY C6Z is gonna make your kit actually look like it has the ability to make solid power, its Marks car.. If it were me, I would pull the kit all together and go with a company with a little more backing.. I mean hell, with the car, the guys 115+ grand in already.. You didnt even give him a free set of sparkplugs??
Any way you slice it, you are gouging the small market of C6Z owners. And when you do, (especially with your cocky attitude) you will find that you will have quite a few of these kits sitting on the shelves.. Corvette Owners are NOT like 350Z drivers. Corvette Guys migrate to the next newest body style. Your pricing strategy (not to mention arrogance) will eventually do nothing but put your company in a hurtin..
Originally Posted by peter@aps
Correct, only 50 ZO6 twin turbo systems per year are planned for production as we are currently production limited to how many systems we can produce per year due to heavy works loads with other twin turbo systems.
It's actually 6 grand more expensive at MSRP than the C5 ZO6 system and when you consider that the system has GT 35 DBB turbos, a complete 1000 hp fuel system including twin fuel pumps and injectors, a full true dual 3 inch stainless steel exhaust system, full flow oil cooler system, 44 mm Tial wastegates, etc, etc, I think it's very easy for anyone who has any real turbo system manufacturing experience to see real value in the additional cost of the C6 ZO6 twin turbo system.
Cost of the freight for the C5 ZO6 system is $650 door to door, the door to door air freight cost of the C6 ZO6 system is $1000 simply due to the extra weight and size of the packaging cartons.
The MSRP of the F body system is $5995 and this system has no exhaust system, no fuel system, no oil cooler, has journal bearing turbos (not expensive dual ball beraing turbos) smaller external wastegates, etc, etc, and is produced from expensive high volume tooling and is made in high production numbers, hence lower production costs. Bottom line, If anyone was to produce a comprehensively engineered twin turbo system for the ZO6 of equal quality, I know that the cost would be as high if not higher than the cost of the APS ZO6 twin turbo system. If you don't agree, that fine and I'll just leave the issue here.
Peter
It's actually 6 grand more expensive at MSRP than the C5 ZO6 system and when you consider that the system has GT 35 DBB turbos, a complete 1000 hp fuel system including twin fuel pumps and injectors, a full true dual 3 inch stainless steel exhaust system, full flow oil cooler system, 44 mm Tial wastegates, etc, etc, I think it's very easy for anyone who has any real turbo system manufacturing experience to see real value in the additional cost of the C6 ZO6 twin turbo system.
Cost of the freight for the C5 ZO6 system is $650 door to door, the door to door air freight cost of the C6 ZO6 system is $1000 simply due to the extra weight and size of the packaging cartons.
The MSRP of the F body system is $5995 and this system has no exhaust system, no fuel system, no oil cooler, has journal bearing turbos (not expensive dual ball beraing turbos) smaller external wastegates, etc, etc, and is produced from expensive high volume tooling and is made in high production numbers, hence lower production costs. Bottom line, If anyone was to produce a comprehensively engineered twin turbo system for the ZO6 of equal quality, I know that the cost would be as high if not higher than the cost of the APS ZO6 twin turbo system. If you don't agree, that fine and I'll just leave the issue here.
Peter
Last edited by Jeff@TotalPerformanceEng; 09-15-2007 at 08:46 PM. Reason: spelling/gramar corrections
09-15-2007, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
In this ad, you state that your selling them for 5995.00 (Including free shipping at a 500 dollatr value) This is limited to 30 kits..(Even though you keep extending the sale)
According to your post, it comes with a TON of high end pats.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=760677
According to this thread you were doing a mid year sale for 6500 bucks +595 for shipping.. Now one could say that "Its a sale" but you've had 2 or 3 major sales in a years time.. So the chances of having to spend 8000 + 650 in shipping are slim to none.
Also, according to you MANY high profile posts with quotes from your "Engineers", you have stated that the C5 kit parts are second to none..
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...light=aps+sale
Although I can appreciate the quest for making more money, it just seems that you come on to these forums with sooooo much arrogance, that you almost believe were either stupid, or just to rich to care..
I am NOT green to the F/I arena in these cars. And I know for a fact that: 1 It does NOT cost 500-600 to ship and entire twin turbo system, but it costs another 400-500 to ship a catback, oil cooler, and the fuel system. I'd be willing to bet, the ALL of the additional parts could be fit in on e 12x20x20 box. With the exception of the catback. I mean hell, your giving Tial 38mm wastegates in the original kit. .How much heavier and expensive do it get to go from 38's-44's?? Hw big is the oil cooler?? 11"20"x2" Big f'ing deal.. Its not like your shipping lead weights..
The kit it self:
According to your posts, you state how top of the line you C5 kits are, and that hoe BB turbos arent necessary to make any power, but your trying to members to choke down 7 grand in upgrades??
Its just a pretty sad day that when the greatest amount of members who own the APS kit and hang out on the forums, think that you guys are promoters who could ultimately care a less about the end user.. Go onto the CF. You will see that 95% of all members who own your kit feel like they were dupped into buying something that hasnt made the grade.. But you should know that..Cause you not only blasted DIRECT insults at you customers, but admitted on open forums that American tuners DONT know what their doing...
I'm still blown away that you criticised W2W. And questioned their abilities..
All I'm saying is, is you can probably pull the wool over some fools eyes every once in a while and get top dollar (Mark) But it wont be for long.Not when there are companies like TTi who are willing to bend over backwards, and NOT criticize, but understand..
After hearing that Mark "Vindication" is landing your kit on the cover of Vette Magazine, not to mention a few others, and you didnt even as much as give him a slight discount on shipping.. Hell, he has to pay twice..Once to his home, then once to ship it to W2W.. You should be thanking him. Because if ANY C6Z is gonna make your kit actually look like it has the ability to make solid power, its Marks car.. If it were me, I would pull the kit all together and go with a company with a little more backing.. I mean hell, With the car, the guys 115+ grand in already.. You didnt even give him a free set of sparkplugs??
Any way you slice it, you are gouging the small market of C6Z owners. And when you do, (especially with your cocky attitude) you will find that you will have quite a few of these kits sitting on the shelves..Corvette Owners are NOT like 350Z drivers. Corvette Guys migrate to the next newest body style. Your pricing strategy will eventually do nothing but put your company in a hurtin..
According to your post, it comes with a TON of high end pats.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=760677
According to this thread you were doing a mid year sale for 6500 bucks +595 for shipping.. Now one could say that "Its a sale" but you've had 2 or 3 major sales in a years time.. So the chances of having to spend 8000 + 650 in shipping are slim to none.
Also, according to you MANY high profile posts with quotes from your "Engineers", you have stated that the C5 kit parts are second to none..
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...light=aps+sale
Although I can appreciate the quest for making more money, it just seems that you come on to these forums with sooooo much arrogance, that you almost believe were either stupid, or just to rich to care..
I am NOT green to the F/I arena in these cars. And I know for a fact that: 1 It does NOT cost 500-600 to ship and entire twin turbo system, but it costs another 400-500 to ship a catback, oil cooler, and the fuel system. I'd be willing to bet, the ALL of the additional parts could be fit in on e 12x20x20 box. With the exception of the catback. I mean hell, your giving Tial 38mm wastegates in the original kit. .How much heavier and expensive do it get to go from 38's-44's?? Hw big is the oil cooler?? 11"20"x2" Big f'ing deal.. Its not like your shipping lead weights..
The kit it self:
According to your posts, you state how top of the line you C5 kits are, and that hoe BB turbos arent necessary to make any power, but your trying to members to choke down 7 grand in upgrades??
Its just a pretty sad day that when the greatest amount of members who own the APS kit and hang out on the forums, think that you guys are promoters who could ultimately care a less about the end user.. Go onto the CF. You will see that 95% of all members who own your kit feel like they were dupped into buying something that hasnt made the grade.. But you should know that..Cause you not only blasted DIRECT insults at you customers, but admitted on open forums that American tuners DONT know what their doing...
I'm still blown away that you criticised W2W. And questioned their abilities..
All I'm saying is, is you can probably pull the wool over some fools eyes every once in a while and get top dollar (Mark) But it wont be for long.Not when there are companies like TTi who are willing to bend over backwards, and NOT criticize, but understand..
After hearing that Mark "Vindication" is landing your kit on the cover of Vette Magazine, not to mention a few others, and you didnt even as much as give him a slight discount on shipping.. Hell, he has to pay twice..Once to his home, then once to ship it to W2W.. You should be thanking him. Because if ANY C6Z is gonna make your kit actually look like it has the ability to make solid power, its Marks car.. If it were me, I would pull the kit all together and go with a company with a little more backing.. I mean hell, With the car, the guys 115+ grand in already.. You didnt even give him a free set of sparkplugs??
Any way you slice it, you are gouging the small market of C6Z owners. And when you do, (especially with your cocky attitude) you will find that you will have quite a few of these kits sitting on the shelves..Corvette Owners are NOT like 350Z drivers. Corvette Guys migrate to the next newest body style. Your pricing strategy will eventually do nothing but put your company in a hurtin..
I tried to make this clear to APS back in March 07. Jeff, you and a few others do know I went way over the top to build the best motor (with my budget) to make the best power and reliability (if that can even be possible in the same sentence together) with this kit. I don't know if you have been over to the Corvette Forum but Peter has made comment on my motor as to be a shame due to the compression I have choosen.
You are absolutely right as to I got no help from APS even after I told them I had spoken to Vette Mag and were very interested in doing the article. Peter even went to go as far as to tell me that he didn't know if they advertise in Vette Mag so I go I quickly go to the restroom, pick up my mag, and see a entire f*en page for APS. How does your sales person not know this? Or was Peter f*en with me?
I know it may seem like I'm bashing on Peter but there are a lot of points you make in your post that are very true. When you head over to the CF a lot of people have not purchased kits due to Peters attitude.
Kinda funny when I spoke to Al from LAPD a few weeks ago Peter and David Inhall had said I had a attitude problem and that I bitch about everything. I found that kinda funny as well.
Now I know it may seem stupid to still be doing this kit and paying TOP DOLLAR but I think my want for a Twin Turbo kit is so great I can't help it. I asked Lingenfelter to do a TT for the car but they wouldnt touch it since it was a Cali car.
APS makes a great and clean quality product. If there was less customer service issues and would be more humble I'm sure more would be getting sold.
09-16-2007, 05:15 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
In this ad, you state that your selling them for 5995.00 (Including free shipping at a 500 dollatr value) This is limited to 30 kits..(Even though you keep extending the sale)
According to your post, it comes with a TON of high end pats.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=760677
According to your post, it comes with a TON of high end pats.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=760677
Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
According to this thread you were doing a mid year sale for 6500 bucks +595 for shipping.. Now one could say that "Its a sale" but you've had 2 or 3 major sales in a years time.. So the chances of having to spend 8000 + 650 in shipping are slim to none. Also, according to your MANY high profile posts with quotes from your "Engineers", you have stated that the C5 kit parts are second to none..
Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
Although I can appreciate the quest for making more money, it just seems that you come on to these forums with sooooo much arrogance, that you almost believe were either stupid, or just to rich to care..
Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
I am NOT green to the F/I arena in these cars. And I know for a fact that: 1 It does NOT cost 500-600 to ship and entire twin turbo system, but it costs another 400-500 to ship a catback, oil cooler, and the fuel system. I'd be willing to bet, the ALL of the additional parts could be fit in one 12x20x20 box. With the exception of the catback. I mean hell, your giving Tial 38mm wastegates in the original kit.. How much heavier and expensive do it get to go from 38's-44's?? How big is the oil cooler?? 11"20"x2" Big f'ing deal.. Its not like your shipping lead weights..
Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
I'm still blown away that you criticised W2W. And questioned their abilities..
Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
All I'm saying is, is you can probably pull the wool over some fools eyes every once in a while and get top dollar (Mark) But it wont be for long. Not when there are companies like TTi who are willing to bend over backwards, and NOT criticize, but understand..
Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
After hearing that Mark "Vindication" is landing your kit on the cover of Vette Magazine, not to mention a few others, and you didnt even as much as give him a slight discount on shipping.. Hell, he has to pay twice..Once to his home, then once to ship it to W2W.. You should be thanking him. Because if ANY C6Z is gonna make your kit actually look like it has the ability to make solid power, its Marks car.. If it were me, I would pull the kit all together and go with a company with a little more backing.. I mean hell, with the car, the guys 115+ grand in already.. You didnt even give him a free set of spark plugs??
Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
Any way you slice it, you are gouging the small market of C6Z owners.
Have a good day,
Peter
09-17-2007, 03:01 AM
#34
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If you find the price to be to high. Don't buy one. Please move on to something else.
Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
Understood.....
I also understand thats its also a lower production run (you guys are doing 50 right)
Yes, they should cost more.. There is NO WAY on this earth there is 7 grand in upgrades over and above the C5 kit.. Not a chance on this earth..
400 for an oil cooler, 1200 exhaust, 1500 fuel system, 1500 in turbos, 400 in wastegates.. Even when overinflating some of the parts listed above, you are STILL 2 grand away from the price difference..
It is "Upcharging" plain and simple..
Isnt the C5 kit about 400-500 in shipping?? So the extra exhaust and fuel system costs 600 to ship??? Again, there is NO WAY..
I would ust LOVE to understand how the F-body Twin Turbo kit runs 4995.00 plus about 500 bucks in shipping, but the C6 Z kit costs 13,995 + 1000 in shipping..
I also understand thats its also a lower production run (you guys are doing 50 right)
Yes, they should cost more.. There is NO WAY on this earth there is 7 grand in upgrades over and above the C5 kit.. Not a chance on this earth..
400 for an oil cooler, 1200 exhaust, 1500 fuel system, 1500 in turbos, 400 in wastegates.. Even when overinflating some of the parts listed above, you are STILL 2 grand away from the price difference..
It is "Upcharging" plain and simple..
Isnt the C5 kit about 400-500 in shipping?? So the extra exhaust and fuel system costs 600 to ship??? Again, there is NO WAY..
I would ust LOVE to understand how the F-body Twin Turbo kit runs 4995.00 plus about 500 bucks in shipping, but the C6 Z kit costs 13,995 + 1000 in shipping..
09-17-2007, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by LS1curious
If you find the price to be to high. Don't buy one. Please move on to something else.
Read for your self........
Originally Posted by SpeedyD via Personal Messaging
Vindication, it is real crappy that Peter would do this to you, and he has no idea the backlash this will have on him and APS. Maybe in the land down under that practice is acceptable, but welcome to AMERICA, that is not acceptable here! You have saved your self the time of dealing with the most arrogant person I have ever spoken to. Their kit, as I am sure it is well engineered, would be filled with the same excuse the C5 kit has been filled with. I have an IM that I saved from him one night when we spoke as I was trying to acquire a 3" exhaust from him. He never sent me the paperwork like he said he would and never followed through as he was upset that I was telling people the truth about the C5 kit. I just want to show you the arrogance and lies you have saved yourself from. Here is the post, obviously I am speedydivito and he is APS Turbo, I have been waiting for the right time to post this, this seems perfect! Vindication, he is doing you a favor!!
(I have only edited any words that shouldn't appear on the forum)
Speedydivito: Peter, you around?
APSTrb: hello
APSTrb: can you give me 15 minutes please
Speedydivito: sure
APSTrb: in a meeting right now
APSTrb: thankyou
APSTrb: see u soon then
Speedydivito: thanks!
APSTrb: Hello agin
APSTrb: again
APSTrb: lol
Speedydivito: how's it going?
APSTrb: well thanks
APSTrb: I see that you sound pi$$ed at me at times
APSTrb: if so I am sorry that this is the case
Speedydivito: I just get irritated becasue people PM me askig what to expect out of the kit. I tell themm what I think/know and then they refer back to what you say. I have to disagree with you that the kit right out of the box will make the HP that you claim. I do beleive the potential is there, but there's a restriction and I beleieve that has become all but obvious.
APSTrb: please keep you reply short
APSTrb: you have a number of problems with your setup imho
APSTrb: please don't get pi$$ed at me
APSTrb: and I wil;l try to help you
Speedydivito: You have a great kit, I love it, as I have always posted, For you to say 700 is very achivable for HP with more torque, sure that's honest advertisement. To say it is the best package, best looking, best engineered, and comes with the best instructions, absolutely
APSTrb: Speedy, we only ever tested the system to 640 rwhp on a bone stock engine
Speedydivito: I'm not getting mad, I just want to work with people to figure out what the issue is. My goal has never been 800, nor 700. I wanted 600 streetable and achived that. I want a full street car, it would be fun to turn it up at times, but 600 is perfectly fine
APSTrb: with the right engine and tuning we know that the system will go 900 rwhp
APSTrb: that's now a fact
APSTrb: you must have the wrong spec engine
APSTrb: and poor tuning imho
APSTrb: those guys at ECS have no idea bout tuning turbo carsw imo
APSTrb: and their engine cooling fans a a big joke
APSTrb: youi can't tune an engine accuartely without significant cooling fans
APSTrb: that is FACT
Speedydivito: possibly there are variations in my combo that didn't work out and I am taking the tuning into my own hands with HP Tuners adn I'm sure you know Nick Yoskin, he's a good friend of mine, and we will go from there an re hit the dyno
APSTrb: don't know him from a bar of soap
Speedydivito: Yup, I agree, I have said from the beginning the cooling was a major issue
APSTrb: what's his claim to fame
Speedydivito: Oh, OK, well he's big on the forum and a huge turbo guru
APSTrb: seems like you make fun of me when I post about cooling fans
APSTrb: when guys are being smart asses...............I think they get no help from me.
Speedydivito: no, I don't belive I ever made fun of you about cooling fans.
APSTrb: let them figure it all out on their own
APSTrb: ok
APSTrb: I wil leave that there
APSTrb: many of these forum guys have little to no REAL turbo knowledge
APSTrb: that is again FACT
APSTrb: so if you follow what they say.................you won't gewt anywhere fast
Speedydivito: my only complaint was what I beleive was the false advertisement. People, when they listen to you, expect to build an engine and slap the kit on and have 800rwhp. It's not that easy and shouldn't be made to sound that easy. People spend a lot of money to do these things and they need to understand it's not that easy
APSTrb: I laugh myself to death at the **** some guys post...............and they are meant to be turbo gurus...................what a joke
APSTrb: 600 rwhp is childs paly with the right combination
APSTrb: Cartek did it first time
APSTrb: 800 rwhp
APSTrb: sorry
Speedydivito: I agree with that
APSTrb: 800 rwhp is childs play with the right engine and tuning combination
Speedydivito: If oyu were on my end and looking at the fact that no one else has even come close to the Cartek results, that everyone else's kit drops off after 11 - 12 lbs, doesn't that seem odd
APSTrb: if you have the wrong comp ratio, cam spec, cyl flow, etc,etc, you will NEVER make the power..............again this is just basic engineering FACT
APSTrb: the that means all of tghe forum gurus just don't know shi$ from clay
APSTrb: CARTEK DO
Speedydivito: So all the other guys, including LAPD that has tried many of different combinations, they have all been wrong?
APSTrb: that's the difference between pros and amateurs
APSTrb: 100% correct
APSTrb: LAPD have nevr tried to build a 800 rwhp engine
APSTrb: none of their customer s haqver the budget to do so yet
Speedydivito: No bu they have put the kit on several cars not to see over 700 until Sam's car the otehr day
APSTrb: so?
Speedydivito: 700 should be doable on a budget, no?
APSTrb: it takes money and knowledge to make high HP
APSTrb: 700 rwhp is childs play
Speedydivito: On te stock Z06 you guys pulled 690 at 10 psi, right?
APSTrb: Sam did not listem to me about the exhaust for a long time.............again he's an eddy expert
APSTrb: we made 640 rwhp @9 PSI on abone stock engine...............childs play..............spent about 45 minutes on the dyno
Speedydivito: But even with te exhaust he still stopped making power after 11 lbs. He actually made more power at 11lbs than at 13 lbs
APSTrb: too easy to make this power
APSTrb: so
APSTrb: what's his engine combination, dop you know? we don't
Speedydivito: He's has a 402
APSTrb: it has got the most stupid cvam spec for a turbo engine.............. that I know for fact
Speedydivito: the exact specs I had but I no longer do
APSTrb: a 402 is a stup engine for a twin turbo..............just plain dumb
Speedydivito: If you were to put a cam in a 346, what cam specs would you be using?
APSTrb: wrong bore to stroke ratio.....realy dumb
APSTrb: that's easy
APSTrb: you need a cam with less intake duration than exhaust duration and around 550 thou lift
APSTrb: with a CL of more than 118
APSTrb: when we talk about specs
APSTrb: we mean the entire engine spec
APSTrb: not the turbo system spec
Speedydivito: No, I understand that
APSTrb: seems to me that forum guys just simply don't understand turbo engines at all
APSTrb: good at shooting off thier mouth though ultimayely have no REAL knowledge
APSTrb: most of the tike is's the blind leading the blind so many guys make the same mistakes, time and time again
APSTrb: lol
Speedydivito: some do and some don't. Some talk of their expierences and some talk just to talk
APSTrb: most talkj shi$ imho
Speedydivito: Very true, I try to speak with the guys who have done it tehmselves and have a combo that works
APSTrb: none of the are quailified to make any real difference to problem solving
Speedydivito: yup, very true
APSTrb: most guys who have a combo that works have no idea why it works
APSTrb: what works well in a NA engine won't work well in aTT engine, that's fact
Speedydivito: That's what the forum is for, average guys comparing and sharing info and their thoughts. if we all had the answers, we wouldn't be there!!:-D
APSTrb: so get the combo wrong and you end up being disappointed
APSTrb: trick is to know who to listen to
APSTrb: why don't you book you car into Cartek and get it right the second time around
(I have only edited any words that shouldn't appear on the forum)
Speedydivito: Peter, you around?
APSTrb: hello
APSTrb: can you give me 15 minutes please
Speedydivito: sure
APSTrb: in a meeting right now
APSTrb: thankyou
APSTrb: see u soon then
Speedydivito: thanks!
APSTrb: Hello agin
APSTrb: again
APSTrb: lol
Speedydivito: how's it going?
APSTrb: well thanks
APSTrb: I see that you sound pi$$ed at me at times
APSTrb: if so I am sorry that this is the case
Speedydivito: I just get irritated becasue people PM me askig what to expect out of the kit. I tell themm what I think/know and then they refer back to what you say. I have to disagree with you that the kit right out of the box will make the HP that you claim. I do beleive the potential is there, but there's a restriction and I beleieve that has become all but obvious.
APSTrb: please keep you reply short
APSTrb: you have a number of problems with your setup imho
APSTrb: please don't get pi$$ed at me
APSTrb: and I wil;l try to help you
Speedydivito: You have a great kit, I love it, as I have always posted, For you to say 700 is very achivable for HP with more torque, sure that's honest advertisement. To say it is the best package, best looking, best engineered, and comes with the best instructions, absolutely
APSTrb: Speedy, we only ever tested the system to 640 rwhp on a bone stock engine
Speedydivito: I'm not getting mad, I just want to work with people to figure out what the issue is. My goal has never been 800, nor 700. I wanted 600 streetable and achived that. I want a full street car, it would be fun to turn it up at times, but 600 is perfectly fine
APSTrb: with the right engine and tuning we know that the system will go 900 rwhp
APSTrb: that's now a fact
APSTrb: you must have the wrong spec engine
APSTrb: and poor tuning imho
APSTrb: those guys at ECS have no idea bout tuning turbo carsw imo
APSTrb: and their engine cooling fans a a big joke
APSTrb: youi can't tune an engine accuartely without significant cooling fans
APSTrb: that is FACT
Speedydivito: possibly there are variations in my combo that didn't work out and I am taking the tuning into my own hands with HP Tuners adn I'm sure you know Nick Yoskin, he's a good friend of mine, and we will go from there an re hit the dyno
APSTrb: don't know him from a bar of soap
Speedydivito: Yup, I agree, I have said from the beginning the cooling was a major issue
APSTrb: what's his claim to fame
Speedydivito: Oh, OK, well he's big on the forum and a huge turbo guru
APSTrb: seems like you make fun of me when I post about cooling fans
APSTrb: when guys are being smart asses...............I think they get no help from me.
Speedydivito: no, I don't belive I ever made fun of you about cooling fans.
APSTrb: let them figure it all out on their own
APSTrb: ok
APSTrb: I wil leave that there
APSTrb: many of these forum guys have little to no REAL turbo knowledge
APSTrb: that is again FACT
APSTrb: so if you follow what they say.................you won't gewt anywhere fast
Speedydivito: my only complaint was what I beleive was the false advertisement. People, when they listen to you, expect to build an engine and slap the kit on and have 800rwhp. It's not that easy and shouldn't be made to sound that easy. People spend a lot of money to do these things and they need to understand it's not that easy
APSTrb: I laugh myself to death at the **** some guys post...............and they are meant to be turbo gurus...................what a joke
APSTrb: 600 rwhp is childs paly with the right combination
APSTrb: Cartek did it first time
APSTrb: 800 rwhp
APSTrb: sorry
Speedydivito: I agree with that
APSTrb: 800 rwhp is childs play with the right engine and tuning combination
Speedydivito: If oyu were on my end and looking at the fact that no one else has even come close to the Cartek results, that everyone else's kit drops off after 11 - 12 lbs, doesn't that seem odd
APSTrb: if you have the wrong comp ratio, cam spec, cyl flow, etc,etc, you will NEVER make the power..............again this is just basic engineering FACT
APSTrb: the that means all of tghe forum gurus just don't know shi$ from clay
APSTrb: CARTEK DO
Speedydivito: So all the other guys, including LAPD that has tried many of different combinations, they have all been wrong?
APSTrb: that's the difference between pros and amateurs
APSTrb: 100% correct
APSTrb: LAPD have nevr tried to build a 800 rwhp engine
APSTrb: none of their customer s haqver the budget to do so yet
Speedydivito: No bu they have put the kit on several cars not to see over 700 until Sam's car the otehr day
APSTrb: so?
Speedydivito: 700 should be doable on a budget, no?
APSTrb: it takes money and knowledge to make high HP
APSTrb: 700 rwhp is childs play
Speedydivito: On te stock Z06 you guys pulled 690 at 10 psi, right?
APSTrb: Sam did not listem to me about the exhaust for a long time.............again he's an eddy expert
APSTrb: we made 640 rwhp @9 PSI on abone stock engine...............childs play..............spent about 45 minutes on the dyno
Speedydivito: But even with te exhaust he still stopped making power after 11 lbs. He actually made more power at 11lbs than at 13 lbs
APSTrb: too easy to make this power
APSTrb: so
APSTrb: what's his engine combination, dop you know? we don't
Speedydivito: He's has a 402
APSTrb: it has got the most stupid cvam spec for a turbo engine.............. that I know for fact
Speedydivito: the exact specs I had but I no longer do
APSTrb: a 402 is a stup engine for a twin turbo..............just plain dumb
Speedydivito: If you were to put a cam in a 346, what cam specs would you be using?
APSTrb: wrong bore to stroke ratio.....realy dumb
APSTrb: that's easy
APSTrb: you need a cam with less intake duration than exhaust duration and around 550 thou lift
APSTrb: with a CL of more than 118
APSTrb: when we talk about specs
APSTrb: we mean the entire engine spec
APSTrb: not the turbo system spec
Speedydivito: No, I understand that
APSTrb: seems to me that forum guys just simply don't understand turbo engines at all
APSTrb: good at shooting off thier mouth though ultimayely have no REAL knowledge
APSTrb: most of the tike is's the blind leading the blind so many guys make the same mistakes, time and time again
APSTrb: lol
Speedydivito: some do and some don't. Some talk of their expierences and some talk just to talk
APSTrb: most talkj shi$ imho
Speedydivito: Very true, I try to speak with the guys who have done it tehmselves and have a combo that works
APSTrb: none of the are quailified to make any real difference to problem solving
Speedydivito: yup, very true
APSTrb: most guys who have a combo that works have no idea why it works
APSTrb: what works well in a NA engine won't work well in aTT engine, that's fact
Speedydivito: That's what the forum is for, average guys comparing and sharing info and their thoughts. if we all had the answers, we wouldn't be there!!:-D
APSTrb: so get the combo wrong and you end up being disappointed
APSTrb: trick is to know who to listen to
APSTrb: why don't you book you car into Cartek and get it right the second time around
Last edited by Jeff@TotalPerformanceEng; 09-17-2007 at 03:24 AM.
09-17-2007, 03:20 AM
#36
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Continued:
Originally Posted by SpeedyD via Presonal Messaging APS
Speedydivito: True. But being this was a new kit i took a combo that worked well for a TTi-x kit and ddin't work so well with this kit. At that point, since no others had done anything with it, even APS had only run it on a stock combo, my best thougt was to use a proven combo from another turbo kit. What would you do?
APSTrb: those guys know WHAT they are doing
Speedydivito: Have you watched the vid?
APSTrb: unless I saw these TTI systems on the same fuel ocatane and on the same dyno I don't believe any of those figures
Speedydivito: The track times prove it
APSTrb: what vid?
Speedydivito: I've seen those first hand, they make the power
APSTrb: what makes power?
Speedydivito: Oarange Crus's car on the dyno, the Cartek car
Speedydivito: TTi-x
APSTrb: yes I have seen that, what about the vid?
Speedydivito: Just curious if oyu saw it
APSTrb: I am confident that if we had the same spec engine on the same dyno on the same fuel that ther APS system would easily equal the TTI system
APSTrb: the power is in the engine spec and quality of the build and the tuning, that simple
Speedydivito: Well that would be pretty easy to test, no? Take the engien you have built, bolt the APS up to it, then bolt the TTI up to it. Just use an engine dyno so you don't have to do it in the car. It will be very quick and easy to switch the kits over. You can resell the TTi-x and recoupe all money but maybe a $1000. Not a lot of money in the scheme of things
APSTrb: anyway, if you want to get your car right, take it to a professional, not a forum amatuer
APSTrb: hope that helps
Speedydivito: How is your build comeing, I beleive i read tha the engine is built?
APSTrb: engine is built, just don't have the car yet
APSTrb: we will put the engine into the F body
APSTrb: I'm expecting around 900 rwhp
Speedydivito: not a C5
APSTrb: OK, Got to run now
APSTrb: hope that helps
Speedydivito: have a good one
APSTrb: you too
Speedydivito: how long will shippnig tak eon the exhausr
APSTrb: 3 to 5 days
APSTrb: from payment
Speedydivito: they aren't stocked in the US yet. The price of the exhaust isn't bad, but the cost of shipping sucks!!:-D
APSTrb: No
APSTrb: see u later my friend
APSTrb: got to run now
Speedydivito: see ya
APSTrb: those guys know WHAT they are doing
Speedydivito: Have you watched the vid?
APSTrb: unless I saw these TTI systems on the same fuel ocatane and on the same dyno I don't believe any of those figures
Speedydivito: The track times prove it
APSTrb: what vid?
Speedydivito: I've seen those first hand, they make the power
APSTrb: what makes power?
Speedydivito: Oarange Crus's car on the dyno, the Cartek car
Speedydivito: TTi-x
APSTrb: yes I have seen that, what about the vid?
Speedydivito: Just curious if oyu saw it
APSTrb: I am confident that if we had the same spec engine on the same dyno on the same fuel that ther APS system would easily equal the TTI system
APSTrb: the power is in the engine spec and quality of the build and the tuning, that simple
Speedydivito: Well that would be pretty easy to test, no? Take the engien you have built, bolt the APS up to it, then bolt the TTI up to it. Just use an engine dyno so you don't have to do it in the car. It will be very quick and easy to switch the kits over. You can resell the TTi-x and recoupe all money but maybe a $1000. Not a lot of money in the scheme of things
APSTrb: anyway, if you want to get your car right, take it to a professional, not a forum amatuer
APSTrb: hope that helps
Speedydivito: How is your build comeing, I beleive i read tha the engine is built?
APSTrb: engine is built, just don't have the car yet
APSTrb: we will put the engine into the F body
APSTrb: I'm expecting around 900 rwhp
Speedydivito: not a C5
APSTrb: OK, Got to run now
APSTrb: hope that helps
Speedydivito: have a good one
APSTrb: you too
Speedydivito: how long will shippnig tak eon the exhausr
APSTrb: 3 to 5 days
APSTrb: from payment
Speedydivito: they aren't stocked in the US yet. The price of the exhaust isn't bad, but the cost of shipping sucks!!:-D
APSTrb: No
APSTrb: see u later my friend
APSTrb: got to run now
Speedydivito: see ya
09-17-2007, 06:31 AM
#37
so everyone that has a new zo6 was HAPPY to pay the 10-20k "premium" on top of GMs msrp for their flagship car, yet they don't want the "corvette tax" on all aftermarket parts? bwahahahha. cry me a river and get off the wallet.
09-17-2007, 07:38 AM
#38
10 Second Club
I don't understand either. It sounds like Vindication wants the best of the best for his Z06 and it cost what it cost. I'm sure a premium was paid for the W2W 427 over what other shops might have charged. I'd stay the course and go with the APS kit, so it's a little more but it would be the Shitz, IMHO.
09-17-2007, 07:40 AM
#39
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He's not hiding any charges. He tells you up front what it costs. If you like it = Buy It.
If you think its overpriced = Don't Buy It. Its that simple. If his price IS too high for the market then he will have no choice but to lower the selling price in the future to get rid of the kits.
If you think its overpriced = Don't Buy It. Its that simple. If his price IS too high for the market then he will have no choice but to lower the selling price in the future to get rid of the kits.
09-17-2007, 07:44 AM
#40
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Wow, the story continues about price...I never had problems with price. For god sake, I PAID for the kit already. Its Peters customer service more than anything thats the issue. Hes the one who cancelled my entire kit and sent me my money back it wasn't me asking for it. I wanted the kit.