Is my bottom end needing replace?
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 12
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From: york pa
Is my bottom end needing replace? 1997 vette 40,000 miles Patriot heads&cam(64cc),kooks headers,stock bottom end. This is where I stand right now. I have a ping or detonation noise I think, Noise starts as soon as car starts. Ping varys by throttle(93octgas) pulling hills in higher gear makes it alot worst. Had car dyno in Aug, Did good 405rwhp/385tor. But,had alot of oil in the intake, Now I have excessive oil blowby. Car smokes(blue)not all the time. And has this DAM NOISE at all speeds and gears. When dyno car was 50% lean (not good) I got this car on the last day of may. Car was running lean for sometime 2-3yrs or 7,000miles. Could the noise,pinging be due to carbon buildup in cylinders. I am at the point where it think I need a new bottom end. I hope not! PLEASE help if u can.
Originally Posted by todbusa
1997 vette 40,000 miles Patriot heads&cam(64cc),kooks headers,stock bottom end. This is where I stand right now. I have a ping or detonation noise I think, Noise starts as soon as car starts. Ping varys by throttle(93octgas) pulling hills in higher gear makes it alot worst. Had car dyno in Aug, Did good 405rwhp/385tor. But,had alot of oil in the intake, Now I have excessive oil blowby. Car smokes(blue)not all the time. And has this DAM NOISE at all speeds and gears. When dyno car was 50% lean (not good) I got this car on the last day of may. Car was running lean for sometime 2-3yrs or 7,000miles. Could the noise,pinging be due to carbon buildup in cylinders. I am at the point where it think I need a new bottom end. I hope not! PLEASE help if u can.
Oil in the intake is a common problem on LS1 motors. Do you have a catch can installed ? If not that would be the first step.
You need to post more info about noise. Where is it coming from the top or bottom of motor ?
Also have you checked your DIC to see if you have any codes ? Your car is equiped with knock sensors that should retard your timing.
I got a 97 vette 6 spd w/ 45K on it that has a bad ticking noise going through the rpm's, but when I'm on it no ticking that I can distinguish from the noise of the lg's.
I've put a complete valve train upgrade in her, lifters to rods to springs retainers and locks, rolling rockers, ect. Put it all back together tick, tick tick.
have taken it to a dozen places that said lifter lifter, but I had already replaced those.
My car makes great power though on a stock cam it dynoed 370 rwhp and 380 rw tq, burns oil (whatever I'm over worrying about that).
Well after may things I think I've narrowed it down to an oiling problem b/c the oil pressure is extremely low 28-25 psi at idle (my friend's z06 is running 38-42psi) and there is little oil coming out of the ports on the top of the rockers so I think the valve train noise is a lack of oil. So I'm hoping replacing the oil pump w/ a cam changes helps out.
Bad oil flow is a common problem with the early ls1, when the block was tweaked one thing they did was open up the oil galleries through the engine.
Did you replace your oil pump with an upgraded ls6, lq4, or ported lsx oil pump when you did your heads and cam?
You may want to be more specific abou the noise....
I've put a complete valve train upgrade in her, lifters to rods to springs retainers and locks, rolling rockers, ect. Put it all back together tick, tick tick.
have taken it to a dozen places that said lifter lifter, but I had already replaced those.
My car makes great power though on a stock cam it dynoed 370 rwhp and 380 rw tq, burns oil (whatever I'm over worrying about that).
Well after may things I think I've narrowed it down to an oiling problem b/c the oil pressure is extremely low 28-25 psi at idle (my friend's z06 is running 38-42psi) and there is little oil coming out of the ports on the top of the rockers so I think the valve train noise is a lack of oil. So I'm hoping replacing the oil pump w/ a cam changes helps out.
Bad oil flow is a common problem with the early ls1, when the block was tweaked one thing they did was open up the oil galleries through the engine.
Did you replace your oil pump with an upgraded ls6, lq4, or ported lsx oil pump when you did your heads and cam?
You may want to be more specific abou the noise....
Originally Posted by dmiz0420
I got a 97 vette 6 spd w/ 45K on it that has a bad ticking noise going through the rpm's, but when I'm on it no ticking that I can distinguish from the noise of the lg's.
I've put a complete valve train upgrade in her, lifters to rods to springs retainers and locks, rolling rockers, ect. Put it all back together tick, tick tick.
have taken it to a dozen places that said lifter lifter, but I had already replaced those.
My car makes great power though on a stock cam it dynoed 370 rwhp and 380 rw tq, burns oil (whatever I'm over worrying about that).
Well after may things I think I've narrowed it down to an oiling problem b/c the oil pressure is extremely low 28-25 psi at idle (my friend's z06 is running 38-42psi) and there is little oil coming out of the ports on the top of the rockers so I think the valve train noise is a lack of oil. So I'm hoping replacing the oil pump w/ a cam changes helps out.
Bad oil flow is a common problem with the early ls1, when the block was tweaked one thing they did was open up the oil galleries through the engine.
Did you replace your oil pump with an upgraded ls6, lq4, or ported lsx oil pump when you did your heads and cam?
You may want to be more specific abou the noise....
I've put a complete valve train upgrade in her, lifters to rods to springs retainers and locks, rolling rockers, ect. Put it all back together tick, tick tick.
have taken it to a dozen places that said lifter lifter, but I had already replaced those.
My car makes great power though on a stock cam it dynoed 370 rwhp and 380 rw tq, burns oil (whatever I'm over worrying about that).
Well after may things I think I've narrowed it down to an oiling problem b/c the oil pressure is extremely low 28-25 psi at idle (my friend's z06 is running 38-42psi) and there is little oil coming out of the ports on the top of the rockers so I think the valve train noise is a lack of oil. So I'm hoping replacing the oil pump w/ a cam changes helps out.
Bad oil flow is a common problem with the early ls1, when the block was tweaked one thing they did was open up the oil galleries through the engine.
Did you replace your oil pump with an upgraded ls6, lq4, or ported lsx oil pump when you did your heads and cam?
You may want to be more specific abou the noise....
What weight oil are you running ?
You're right it is very well likely to be a volume issue.
I've run 5w 30, 10w 40, and finally a 5w-20 (mobil 1) with a k&n filter seemed to make the ticking least noticible right after an oil change.
I'm hoping a ls6 oil pump will solve the problem, but I'm sure going to investigate the oil passages whilr I have the front of the engine exposed w/ the heads off.
not to hijack but any ideas are welcome...
I've run 5w 30, 10w 40, and finally a 5w-20 (mobil 1) with a k&n filter seemed to make the ticking least noticible right after an oil change.
I'm hoping a ls6 oil pump will solve the problem, but I'm sure going to investigate the oil passages whilr I have the front of the engine exposed w/ the heads off.
not to hijack but any ideas are welcome...
Originally Posted by dmiz0420
You're right it is very well likely to be a volume issue.
I've run 5w 30, 10w 40, and finally a 5w-20 (mobil 1) with a k&n filter seemed to make the ticking least noticible right after an oil change.
I'm hoping a ls6 oil pump will solve the problem, but I'm sure going to investigate the oil passages whilr I have the front of the engine exposed w/ the heads off.
not to hijack but any ideas are welcome...
I've run 5w 30, 10w 40, and finally a 5w-20 (mobil 1) with a k&n filter seemed to make the ticking least noticible right after an oil change.
I'm hoping a ls6 oil pump will solve the problem, but I'm sure going to investigate the oil passages whilr I have the front of the engine exposed w/ the heads off.
not to hijack but any ideas are welcome...
I would go with a ported pump from melling or Lingenfelter. Since you gotta pull the front cover off you might as well do a timing chain and a new underdrive balancer and pin your crank at the same time.
Also use new gaskets on the front cover and a new crank bolt.
10-4
thats the plan, just looking for a cam for the LPE edlebrocks milled to 62 with .040 head gaskets.... and I'll see what 1 yr of research gets me in hp and if I can get rid of the damn ticking.
thats the plan, just looking for a cam for the LPE edlebrocks milled to 62 with .040 head gaskets.... and I'll see what 1 yr of research gets me in hp and if I can get rid of the damn ticking.
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When you guys say its a "ticking noise", would you say it sounds like a sewing machine? after i had my patriot stageII heads,comp cam,springs,rods,lifters,ported oil pump,chain ect ect..i have an extreemly noticeable ticking noise. From the motor itself,it sounds exactly like a sewing maching. I have had the mods on the car for over a year ..burns no oil..or oil in the intake and pings only very slightly if its extreemly hot outside in a high gear uphill as was described in original post. the car runs extreemly strong and has never given me even the slightest problem. I have had quite a few people look(listen) at the car that built ls1s with the same setup and tell me it was a perfectly normal sound. Im not sure if this is the sound you guys are talking about, but iam always wondering about it too but, its never given me the slightest problem.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 12
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From: york pa
Sorry, it took so long to reply. No I do not have a catch can yet. Soon! Noise is from top of motor. And there are no codes. Noise (sewing machine) sound 2500 rpms up. Shop guys say sounds like a bent push rod. I run good oil RP20/50. No I do know if oil pump was upgraded, but oil psi is good(38-45) A yes I do have longtubes,why would over tighten a spark plug make a ticking sound?
Sorry, it took so long to reply. No I do not have a catch can yet. Soon! Noise is from top of motor. And there are no codes. Noise (sewing machine) sound 2500 rpms up. Shop guys say sounds like a bent push rod. I run good oil RP20/50. No I do know if oil pump was upgraded, but oil psi is good(38-45) A yes I do have longtubes,why would over tighten a spark plug make a ticking sound?
LS1's do sound like sewing machines depending on cam / lifter combo. Recommended oil weight is 5W/30. What is your oil pressure at idle ?
Bent push rod will typically give you a P0300 misfire code.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,157
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From: Texas
When you guys say its a "ticking noise", would you say it sounds like a sewing machine? after i had my patriot stageII heads,comp cam,springs,rods,lifters,ported oil pump,chain ect ect..i have an extreemly noticeable ticking noise. From the motor itself,it sounds exactly like a sewing maching. I have had the mods on the car for over a year ..burns no oil..or oil in the intake and pings only very slightly if its extreemly hot outside in a high gear uphill as was described in original post. the car runs extreemly strong and has never given me even the slightest problem. I have had quite a few people look(listen) at the car that built ls1s with the same setup and tell me it was a perfectly normal sound. Im not sure if this is the sound you guys are talking about, but iam always wondering about it too but, its never given me the slightest problem.
the sewing machine like noise you hear is normal after a cam/spring install. Your valves are stiffer and with the aftermarket cam they move more
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 12
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From: york pa
Just found some paperwork an this car that I did not have before. This car has patriot per racing(rolling) rocker system. Do this need adjust from time to time? A could this be the noise that i hearing? Did my oil with 5w/30 so far so good.
Most LS1's use a pedestal rocker system. Unless you're running a solid roller system, probably no adjustment is needed as that's the beauty of hydraulic systems.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 12
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From: york pa
Well, this is not like most ls1. This car has the patriot performance racing rocker system. That can be adjusted. The oem parts were not needed. So new pushrods.rockers,etc...Could pushrods be to short,bent,rockers loose,or all? I did not do the work on this car. And,I might be running solid roller system do not know yet. soon will.
Well, this is not like most ls1. This car has the patriot performance racing rocker system. That can be adjusted. The oem parts were not needed. So new pushrods.rockers,etc...Could pushrods be to short,bent,rockers loose,or all? I did not do the work on this car. And,I might be running solid roller system do not know yet. soon will.
Well based on your response, it might prudent to contact the person you bought the car from to find out what you got.
That's the problem with some of these cars, you don't know what's been done to the car. I always ask for a receipt or the tuner who did the work to verify what's been done.
The push rod length could be off if the heads or deck was cut to flatten or increase compression. I would find out cam specs, etc so that you can figure out if everything is good or not.
Typically a bent push rod throws a P0300 misfire code because the cylinder is not opening and closing the same as the others.
Have you checked for codes ?