That's one I've heard from many, something I definately want to try out. From what I have been told that alone may get my consistant 1.40 to 1.37 car to a bottom 1.3, which would be pretty good improvment IMO.

 

But DAMN it makes 1700 REAR WHEEL HP!

Is your battery in the back? Move it back up front.

Build you some thick plate steel and bolt it to the front frame horns where the bumper support was.

First thing I would do is move the instant center out front some. Make it harder to pick the nose up. Doing that and tightening up the limiters should solve the problem.

 

We did consider that.... (the battery thing)..... I just don't want to move it all up there, fab up something and then when i decide to go turbo (front mount single) i'll have to do it all over again and move battery again...

Keep in mind that I don't intend to ride out on the bars for hundreds of feet... I want the car to be tuned to where it barely touches em, but they are there to protect me from an "incident".... like going vertical during testing...

believe me once your car does it a few times you'll see where i'm coming from. YES you can get it to stop without wheelie bars. But how many passes figuring stuff out without wheelie bars is it going to take without an incident.... with the bars on there I can take my time and do pretty much whatever I want, until it's barely touching the bars. Then I can take em off if i'm class racing, keep em on if i'm grudge racing, etc.... I lost 600 bucks in my heads up race and we were the faster car due to a wheelie.... i don't want to have that problem anymore...

 

You're preaching to the choir on that one man, I've been there, done that, have the drag marks on the bumper, got it on video, etc.etc.

Believe me I know what it's like having the problem. Getting the bars on the car are a guarintee way to stop it from happening, don't mess around either I'd get some 72 inch ones built the first time and be done with that.

However, I think that with 4 lbs in the tires, tightening up the limiters one more hole and an instant center adjustment you won't even need them.

Try adding the air, and tighten the limiters up one more hole, and see what that gets you.

If that doesn't do it, then try raising the tq arm up on the mount one hole, that will move the intersect point farther foreward and should also do alot to help, but I'd do that last.

 

Or raise the lower control arm rear mount up one hole. Better to raise the front if you can get the pinion back down.

 

How is raising the torque arm front mount going to change the IC? Everything I have read on torque arm cars says the IC is determined by the lcas and a line drawn vertical through the front torque arm mounting point.

 

IC is where the two imaginary lines of the tq arm and the plane of the lower control arms intersect. Moving the front mount up moves the intersect point further up and out.

I dont think moving it up would be good though, or am I wrong?

 

The torque arm allows front to rear movement by either a sliding link on the torque arm or a pivoting front mount. If not the suspension would bind. Therefore, I do not agree with your definition of the IC on a torque arm car.

A quick search on here had this post by Old SStrocker:
"No offense, but in a stock Camaro rear suspension with a fore/aft sliding front mount of the torque arm, the side view IC is a little different and is found as follows:

Extend a line from the rear pivot of the lower control arm (LCA)thru the front pivot forward past the transmission mount. Next a line is drawn perpendicular to the front end of the torque beam where it is attached at its rubber slider joint. This is basically a vertical line with the car at normal ride height. Where this vertical line crosses the line of the lower control arms is the side view Instant Center.

This is quoted from Terry Satchell, a GM suspension engineer very familiar with this subject.

Here's the diagram from the textbook:

http://www.jonaadland.com/Ta.jpg

Note that you can easily raise the IC by dropping the rear pivot height of the LCA. Note also that different ride heights (lowered or raised car) change the IC height. Note that lowering the rear drops the IC, and therefore reduces the anti-squat unless LCA pivots are relocated.

My thanks to Jon Aadland for the picture."

 

But the sliding "link" fore and aft does not change the plane of the tq arm.

I was always taught this way, maybe I was taught wrong.

And if this is the case, your definition, why do race tq arms like Madmans have provisions to move the front mount up or down? He also makes provisions to move the rear of the arm up or down on the rear end.

Here is how I was taught

 

Brian can probably answer your question better but I can tell you I have seen zero difference running his torque arm in the bottom hole vs. running it in the top hole. The car 60's identical times in either hole. Maybe it is just my car? Moving it up or down does require the pinion angle to be reset though. I use the lca's to change the IC height.

Also, the chassis books I have looked at describe the IC location on a torque arm car the same way as Old SStroker's post does.

 

hmmmmmmm... very interesting info fellas..... yah like i said I know that the car can be limited and we can stay off the bumper.... 4 psi more in the tires up to 13-14 and tighten up the limiters is what we plan to do.... also more nitrous like brian said....

if we're hitting the bars too hard i'll move the lca's up one hole to stock (even though madman advised against that cause my lca's will be going slightly downhill at that point) even though my car isn't lowered. in the stock hole they aren't straight but actually run downhill from the rearend to the body of the car. and i know that isn't good.... right now they are in the middle hole of the lca relocation brackets..... if i went to the bottom i'd probably shear the tire right off the rim and the rim screws..

my spohn torque arm has the sliding link and does not have a provision to move up and down like madmans. if i go to madman's arm i'll have to mod my exhaust and remove the tailpipes and just have mufflers spitting into open air...

 

Do you have madmans save your *** bars. They have saved my car a few times. The oil pan and the trany pan has never touched.

 

Hey
Madman&Co called me Friday,they lost there fabricator for the SYA Bars and cannot supply them.I sure hope they find another source.I bent mine over last year at ATCO and could use another set.

Ray T

 

What are you smoking? Since I make them in house I have plenty in stock.

Who actually called you Ray?

 

There is another option, get a BMR th400 crossmember wth tq arm relocation, and a stock style tq arm. That longer arm will probably help keep the nose down, and you can move the front up and down as well.

This is what I have on my sled, I wanted to put madman's arm on the car but I'm in the same situation with the exhaust clearnance issues.

But, I did talk to Mad steve about making a tranny mount/tw arm mount, kind of a small cradle that bolts up where the tw arm bracket is and the tranny xmember is, this way madman's tq arm could be used with exhaust like yours and mine. The cradle woudl probably be strong like madman's current tq arm mount because it woudl be ataching to more then just the 2 small mounting points that your spohn attaches to.

I had a spohn on my car, ditched it and went to the bmr setup that i am running now, I am happier with the bmr setup, but ultimately would like to have madman's tq arm on the car.

 

Any work done in the converter area??

 

That right there is pretty damn funny.

 

Seems like I have gotton into the middle of something here ,the call I received about the SYA bars was Not from MadMan it was from Thunder Racing.The rest of the story they gave me is exactly as stated
It seems like the explanation I got from Thunder is not exactly true.

Ray T

 

I was thinking someone stole your binder or your dies hell did they kidnap madman . if that was the case they will bring him back. aspecialy if they have to give him all the beer he wants,

 

OutlawZ,
I had the same problem with a stocker. I could not keep it off the bumper with the QA1's on full tight. I think everyone in the stands could read the trans pan. I switched to the AFCO's and a shorter front spring (correct ride height)and I can make it do anything I want. I know you have a bunch more power than we do but the difference was so dramatic I am sure it would help you. You should not be killing the bars. When we have it all right we just lightly touch the bars.

I do agree with the other guys about the higher rear tire prsuure in that picture. If radial slicks available in your size you should give them a try.

Ed, The Warren's are sure fast but I don't think they would appreciate a heads up run with us.