JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Hi guys,

I'm about to start ordering my parts for my build of my 02 T/A A4, and I'm stuck. I'm not chasing a dyno number... I'd rather just have the fastest NA car I can for my budget and eventually rebuild the engine/tranny and spray it down the road.

Right now I have these parts I'm pretty set on:

FAST LSXR 102/92 TB
SLP Lid with stock MAF
TSP 1-7/8" Headers and ORY
Powerbond UDP
Strano Springs and Koni 4/4 shocks
Stock 10-bolt with 3.23s
Nitto NT05R 315/35-17 Drag Radials

I plan to get Ai CNC 5.3L 218cc Heads with either a 58cc or 57cc chamber depending on cam and running BTR Platinum Springs with Ti Retainers.

So my setup question is around the cam and converter:

I'm thinking of either:

Comp LSL/RPM lobe 231/238 .617"/.585" 113+3 LSA with a 3800 2.0 STR Stall. I've also considered a 3600 1.86 STR Stall here too.

or

Comp LSL/RPM lobe 239/244 .621"/.595" 112+3 LSA with a 4000 2.46 STR.

Given my stock rearend and DRs, which of these two is going to be faster as I sit right now? I know once I grenade the 10-bolt and my transmission, my combo will probably change, but for now, what will be faster given my tire/gearing? One has more area under the curve and a slightly more efficient stall while the other hits harder and will carry the power further, but I'm afraid my gearing/tire will limit me. So, I'm not an experienced 1/4 racer, so I don't know how to look at this combo and choose what would be better in the short term.

I'm not building a drag car, just something that would be fast and fun to drive on the street - so that's why I'm not trying to put a 9" in and drag spring and all of that right now. I want something that will be fast when I need it to be, but this is a "weekend toy."

And yes, I have talked to sponsors for setting this up, but I'm torn on whether I want a more ragged edge type of car with the bigger stall/cam or a more sane car. Which is why it may come down to which setup will win. And we all know it's about the setup.

Thanks

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Oh one other thing. I don't have an unlimited budget right now. So, that's why I'm keeping some things stock or not changing them until I really need to.

And I'll be doing the work myself, so it's a bit like piecing together a jigsaw, and I'd rather not have to redo things because I don't care for how the car performs. If it breaks, well that's different and part of the game.

zracer323

iTrader: (12)

Your tire/suspension setup is going to be your limiting factor on how fast you will run. Put a girdle on the 10 bolt and it could live for awhile behind an auto. To answer your question, the bigger cam and higher stall will almost definitely run faster all other things being equal.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Thanks Zracer. I just didn't know if I'd be unoptimized for the bigger cam/stall. I guess I could always put 3.73s in the 10-bolt and that wouldn't be as expensive as a 12-bolt or 9" and that would help drivability with the 4000 stall (even if I decide to go with the smaller cam).

tjwashow

iTrader: (2)

Get some gears and that girdle. I beat the the crap out of my 10 bolt and it's never skipped a best with a girdle

5.3LJimmy

iTrader: (10)

I don't think either of those camshafts are going to clear the pistons with the heads milled to 58cc. If I was in your position I would go cam only and spend the intake and head money on a 12 bolt with 4.11 gears. Then you have a more solid foundation to add power to later.

I think the better gearing will give you a similar e.t. to a heads and cam setup with 3.23 gears. Then you don't have to worry about the car breaking everytime you launch. In addition to that you aren't throwing money away trying to prolong the life of a part you know you are replacing later.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Those heads have stock valves and Ai can set them up for more clearance. So with .020" mil should still have close to stock PtV clearance. It'll be tight with the bigger cam, but eh.

And yeah the 10-bolt will explode probably the first time i drop the hammer with the DRs at 14psi.

HeavyMetl

iTrader: (2)

^^^ I can't agree anymore with 5.3LJimmy. Building a solid, reliable driveline and suspension first allows tons of seat time without worry of breakage and sure eliminates the "good money after bad" situation. I've yet to pull a valve cover from my LS1 and had a blast making improvements every time out this past season. Whittled the ol stock internal down to a 7.62@90 in the 1/8th on a 1.62 sixty. This winter I'm doing the H/C/I build and don't have to spend a cent past the flywheel.

Dirty Vegas

iTrader: (12)

How fast are you trying to go? Do you wanna street drive it ever? 4000+ converters aren't very streetable, either are monster cams. Save the money on the heads and put a rear in it. I had a bunch of 1.50 60' passes on mine, and ONE 1.43. Why bother with ported stock castings? You're looking at $2k when TFS and AFR are a few hundred bucks more, and will produce more power.

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

Ai does some nasty port work on stock casting heads, that's why. It also isn't 2000$.

The larger harder hitting converter will make for the quicker setup every time.

I have no clue why were talking a new rear on a budget build for an auto.

4000 is so small of a difference vs a 3600 it isn't noticeable.. Unless you have a poor converter a 4000 is fine for daily use.

Dirty Vegas

iTrader: (12)

Machining & Labor + Manley RM Valves + NEW GM 5.3L Castings Cost: $1595
Replace OEM guides with Full Bronze Guides & hone to ideal clearances - Cost: $250
PSI 1511 MaxLife Endurance Spring Kit w/ OEM Replacement Seals. - Cost: $250
Manley 23622 Titanium Retainers for OEM, PAC, PSI, etc. beehive springs - Cost: $195
$2290, since clearly don't math good.

We're talking about a rear, cause a 10 bolt won't live. Can you do it for a while, sure. But you're on borrowed time. Also, DD'ing a 4k converter is also on borrowed time with a stock trans.

crazyelf

iTrader: (21)

Dont need to buy their new castings, Pick up a set of used ones for very cheap. Also dont need the manley valves as AI has great results with stock valves.
Dont need to replace the guides stock ones are fine and they can modify them to handle extra lift at no extra charge.
Buy your own spring package and they will be happy to assemble the heads using whatever you want. Which can save a good chunk of change as their are some really good spring options in the 200-250 price range.

so no, ai heads do not cost near as much as aftermarket castings.

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

Since clearly you overpay.

I know people with literally hundreds of passes on 10 bolts in the 1.5 range. Weld the tubes, put a girdle on it, leave the 3.23s in it.
Keep the trans cool by having a nice cooler and not hot lapping it and it will be fine. You think you are on borrowed time with a 4000 and not a 3400?

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. The difference between a 3600 and 4000 isn't much. I don't DD the car. I do drive it around a lot, but not in rush hour.

Also, the stock transmission and rearend are on borrowed time. I know that, but they can be made to last for a while even behind such a setup.

I don't plan to race every weekend. It's meant to be a really fast street car that can run a good time. I will be running it with drag radials on the street. I just wanted to know what to look for in the setup to maximize the combo.

I'm honestly more worried about the transmission than the rearend - but no sense in replacing it until it dies (could be 5 passes, could be 100). The only reason I say that is if it blows, I have another car, so it'll sit until I can fix it.

Also, Ai does good work (the stock 241s on my car now could be done for 995 or 1145 depending on what I want + cost of valvesprings).

Also, I'm looking at Brian Tooley's work with TEA Stage 2 LS6s. Those are $1300 and include his $300 springs. Some used 799s for a few hundred and you're still below the TFS As Cast heads and can run stock rockers without having to pay extra for PM guides. And they make every bit the power of the TFS CNC 215s for considerably less.

I did talk to my cam guy today and decided on a custom LSL/LXL 235/242 112+4 and have a message in to Tooley about how best to setup the LS6 heads. Greg at FTI will get all those specs and I expect a custom variant of the 4000 to match my heads/cam and tire/gearing. I'm hoping in my full weight T/A to see 11.x @ 122-123 or so.

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

FYI- my old setup was TSP 5.3L stage 2 heads, 228 cam, stock intake, yank ss4000 and 3.73 gears. Car ran 11.2's at full weight 3780lbs. If your going to run a big cam you need a high stall converter to get the most out of it.

EZZZE

iTrader: (14)

keep the stock 10 bolt. I always hear about them breaking, but I literally ran mine over 100 passes in the 11's with 1.6 60 foot times.....never even whined. Hell, I sprayed it outta the hole with 100 shot with no problems either. Worst case scenario, it breaks and you throw another one in for $250 - $300. I also vote 4K stall. If you get a 3600, you will wish you went bigger...