SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

Chris,

I aggree, it is a nice economical choice. No discrepect to the other manufactures. My statement was not meant to be any disrepect so if someone took it that way, my appologies.

Centerlines are the heaviest of drag wheel out there...My findings are from what centerline has stated their weights were and comparing them to other manufactures weights. They are a mass produced rim that is not F-body specific...this is not a bad thing, just a fact.

For the guys wanting to put larger tires on the car, their BS for a 15x10 for example is far too small (by ~1 inch). Even the 8's @5.5 BS will not seat evenly in the fender area, they really need to come inward by at least .5 inches more. They are no where near to the stock backspacing which is above 6 which tuck the rim better.

These are small inconviences that are incurred...something that you may not find with a custom manufactured item...but once again, this does come at a cost.

It really comes down to trying to compare apples to oranges. I have guys coming from centerlines and welds often. HP loss from rotational weight is huge, centerline recognizes this also.

Essentially an industry standard as they suggest also, there is a 1-8 lb relationship when comparing static weight to rotational weight. Take 1 lb of rotational weight off the car is like taking 8 static lbs off your car. If you purchased wheels that had an overall additional weight gain of 10 lbs that woudl be like ADDING 80 lbs to your car.

Some guys purchase parts just to save 25 lbs..and spend excess of the difference in cost of a centerline to a bogart set. Does it make sense, well I say, try to loose as much weight as you can anywhere you can without loosing too many creature comforts (if your using it for the road still).

Why spend 400.00 on a part to save 25 lbs and then turn around and say, I don't want to spend say 400.00 more on a set of bogarts to save 80 lbs. If one had the choice, I would pick the greater savings....though being able to loose 80 PLUS 25 would be even better.

Bogart rims aren't for everyone, they are a top of the line drag rim and do cost a little more...obviously not everyone can afford them, nor everyone has to have them.

I am not trying to cause an argument so please don't take any offense. I am attempting to give a reasonable explaination of differences in wheels.

Steve
Pres.

PHIL H

iTrader: (13)

I am running Weld Aluma Stars. 15x10 with 7 B.S. (actually DERTY'S old ones) and 15x 3.5 fronts. They are very lightweight and the fronts require some grinding but the rears only took a little bit. For the money i couldnt go wrong. Bogarts are nice but too pricey for me.

Just a question though about Bogarts, if they are supposedly the industry's lightest wheels etc etc why isnt NHRA Pro Stock guys using them? They would kill for the last thousandth so surely they would be using them.

Phil

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

Weld is a very reputable company as well...they produce some nice high end wheels.

Weld aluma stars 2's are nice rims and in the same league as the bogarts weight and pricing. Build for build, the P2 rears are close but edge slightly, the Bogart fronts are alittle lighter also...Actually, i'm surprized you got the alumastars to fit with little grinding with your stock LS1 calipers/brakes and not running spacers...or do you have aftermarket drag brakes?

Being that you got them used, you probably got a great deal...You would have never purchased them new though as you would be spending essentially the same amount as our rims. One benifit we have is that if you bent your alumastar, your going to have to purchase a new one, in most cases we can fix them...weld would say we can sell you a new one.

Bogart rims are used throughout the industry. I think you may see more guys with welds as they have a larger following. Weld racing has a higher profile advertising market by far...Just because a high profile person uses the rims, doesn't mean they are the best...they may be getting them comp'd for use of them, money talks and the need for it to keep the cars running may drive one to choose one design over another...their high end parts run head to head with Bogarts components.

Just as some of the smaller companies here on the boards manufacture parts, I would be willing to bet some of them retain a better design/lighter etc then the "more popular" lines that you see high profile guys using.

The Bogart name is getting larger and larger. Look at Bogart rims and F-bodies. I initiated the F-body program ~4 years ago. Before that, I would be willing to bet that VERY few guys had heard of a Bogart rim. They have been popular in the mustang and pro-street era, but nothing for F-bodies.

Bogart actaully started in the late 70's but not really recognized until the 80's. It did sell many of their rims though another name, monocoque for some time. Bogart has many styles that fit folks needs. It is an company that is still small enough that it can customize to the needs of each customers. For example, some guys asked for a specific design, style or shape, and we were able to make it happen for them.

As soon as the new GTO came out, I personally worked on a drag design that fits the cars needs perfect. For what is done for the customers custom builds/fitments etc, pricing is actaully VERY reasonable.

Steve
Pres.

DERTY

Yes he did. I sold him the shells for a fair price. He had to get Weld to install the centers.

Not to be too hard on you, but that statement is not accurate. If you have an issue with a rim shell or center section of a Weld wheel you can call Weld Motorsports directly and they will fix the rim for you for what it costs. When they take it in on a RGA they'll assess the damage and give you your alternatives. That may include how they would repair or replace a part of the wheel. Or they may tell you to just get a new one if it's mangled.

How do I know this? Because I called and talked to them about it. Also, It was significantly cheaper for me to send my center section in to get a custom shell built for my new setup then to get a brand new rim (which they do not market nor carry yet). That's how Phil came to get a good deal on his wheels and I did well on the new ones. I'll post pictures once I get them back from Weld. I think a select few people are going to like them.

As far as fitment goes a Aluma Star is a very deep shell. I can't honestly recommend that someone grind their calipers down to make them fit, front or rear. That is the only negative I have against them. Last thing I want to do is worry about a feather thin surface on my brakes at 150+mph. With drag brakes they fit perfectly. No significant work required. Just make sure you have sufficient room where the bump stops are for the most part.

Also, an Aluma Star is not rated for the street. Same case with some of the Bogarts I believe.

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

Sounds like phil got a good deal, as mentioned the aluma stars are definitly a nice rim. I think he'll be happy with them especially since he got a good deal.

Regarding the deep dish design, a rim is only as deep as the BS allows it...If you have a rim with a ~7 inch BS, being on a 10 inch rim, the rim will measure ~11 inches from lip to lip. The dish will only be as large as BS+centers allow...ie with~.5 inch centers then you'll have a dish of ~3.5 inches. It is physicaly impossible to go deeper then your rotor face and center thickness allows. If one wanted a real nice deep dish, going with shortened axles is the way to go...then you can run a better smaller BS which allows a nice dish.

Regarding alumastar2's fitment for an LS1, I figured that drag brakes were being used as I couldn't imagine how they fit with stock rotors so easily. Generally with most drag brakes, NO work is usually needed for MOST rim manufactures, thats the beauty of a true drag setup...both go hand in hand. For example, we can make a P2 front runner at ~6.75 lbs when your using drag brakes...

Repairing their rims is news to me. From my understanding weld did not work with repairs of this type of market work...maybe they are changing. I know they did some specialzed work for the high-profile guys, but not for the average Joe. It may only be offerered on their higher end products...where the centers are removable and replaceable. I am going on my experience and from what I have heard other experiences of others. Thanks for correcting me and letting me know about the work they are getting into. I certainly wouldn't want to misinform someone with incorrect information. I know that there have been a good many guys that have had their prostars, or draglites etc bent and the techs told them to just purchase a new wheel without looking at them, they couldn't help them. Some of these customers are Bogart customers now.

Make no mistake, weld manufactures real nice high end products also...Many of their high end light rims have some difficulty fitting on late model cars though unless they are running drag brakes.

High end welds do come at a price though which is comparable to a Bogart wheel...You can't go wrong with either company.

This topic sorta went astray from the initial questions of prices and choices. I certainly don't want to start a war...lol

Hopefully now Steve, you have alittle more insight of what you want to do.

Steve
Pres.

Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

if you are interested in bogart d10's with tires let me know, I can get a used set for you with 5 passes for a good price

DERTY

Steve,

It's all good information. And to clarify something I said, the deep dish design of the Aluma Star I was referring to has to do with the massive step that is made in the rim shell from the center section which is only 7" or so in diameter out to the 15" shell. There's a rather large step in that transition on the inside, regardless of backspacing. Doesn't matter if you get a 15x10 on a 4, 5 or 7 it's still going to be there.

And I believe you are correct that they may tell you to get your Prostars replaced. I never asked about those. But the sectional (high end) wheels are serviceable.

Even though this went astray, it's all great info!

boomcase

I run centerline convo pros , 15 by 4 front and 15 by 7.5 in the rear.Check out pics


pic / centerline

bad2000ss

iTrader: (6)

I have to agree with Chris. I really like the Centerline Fitment. No modifications need to be done what so ever. My biggest problem was finding short shank open end lug nuts for the rims (DAMN METRIC CRAP ). I went with the Convo Pro 15X7.5 (P.N. 005755547) with MT 26X10.5 ET Street and it tucks almost perfect under the wheel well. The front rims are the Convo Pro 15X4 (P.N. 005401547) and require no grinding to the calipers. I went with a set of VW tires for the front. Total cost for all 4 rims, 2 slicks, and 2 VW tires was just over $1000. I saved 90 lbs over the stock 17X9 SS wheels and tires.

I also drive to an from the track and around town with these rims and tires, they are deffinately tough. I highly recommend them to anyone on a budget looking for a nice set of rims and tires.

CHRISPY

Steve what you say is true and I agree about the bigger centerlines having problems.

The 7.5 Convo pros and the 15x4 convo pros fit perfectly.

That is the only rim size by Convo that does. If you are going bigger than a 26x8.5 or a 28x9 slick a different rim would definitely be ideal

Steve Burger

iTrader: (33)

I am going to end up with a set of Weld Pro Stars. I got a great price with wheels, tires. longer studs, and lugs. I am going to run 165R15s on the front and the new MT ET Radial on the back.

This is the best combination for me. It may not be best for others but will workfor me.

CHRISPY

yep those work great for me too I am going to be running M&H musclecar drags full time on the street

68maro

well my buddy had purchased a set off you steve10 they are a set of d-6's i love the look of bogarts but in my opinion they are a cheaply manufactured extremely overpriced POS i mean no disrespect to you or the steps you've taken to manufacture a wheel for the new f-bodies and i know you don't need my business but i for one will never purchase a bogart like i originally intended i'll stick with my inferior centerline warriors and love them 9 secs at a time

bad2000ss

iTrader: (6)

I've heard good things about the M&H drag slicks recently. If i can't get these ET Streets to hook any better next thursday, I think i'll be swapping them out for the M&H or Goodyears.

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

68, you are entitled to your opinion. I am unsure as to why your stating they are cheaply manufactured as only the highest quality materials go into the products as well as the finish is second to none.

Just to clarify, I've never stated centerline wheels are inferior. In fact I have clearly specified that I was not putting other wheel manufactures drag rims down. There are many good companies out there. I've stated the centerlines are not vehicle specific heavier rims then ours. Centerline produces one of the heaviest drag rim on the market. I make this statement as from the weights that were provided to me from centerline, not just guessing. This isn't a bad thing, just a statement. Also stated was the fact that larger rim sizes were not optimized fitment wise in our cars. As mentioned, smaller width rims will fit nicer, though as traction is an issue, and your not limited to running a larger i.e 11.5 tire, then why not use more tire if you can. Obviously, a smaller rim is not designed to fit the larger tires. It appears that you are not concerned with some of the negative aspects of a less expensive rim. That is completely acceptable, as long as your happy with your rims is all that matters.

I believe that most disagree with your tastes regarding Bogart rims. For your car, we could have built a set that is would save you the equivalence of an EASY 80 lbs in static weight that could drop your time down to 8.99:-)...just as a weld aluma star rim could have done..these type of rims are in a completely different class in comparison to a centerline warrior, lighter, higher quality and yes, both more expensive. It is not just a coincidence why Weld produces the higher end wheels just as we do...there ARE benefits over others. For the guys whom want higher quality and not sacrifice weight savings...these caliber of rims is for those types of customer.

Steve made his choice already with a weld rim. I believe it was a good choice. If choosing between an economy rim, first choice would be a weld prostar or draglite, then centerline. I feel its about appearance, weight, size and how they fit in the fender area...the weld prostar wins on all points in my opinion. Bogart also has an economy line rim but I personally do not feel it is a good choice for F-bodies due to the weight of our cars and fitment issues that are not an easy work-around.

This is not intended to be an arguement, each have his/her own opinion. Appearance is in the eye of the beholder, but factual measurable data is not.

Fast SS on TNT

iTrader: (1)

Bogart. There is no substitute.

Big Mike

iTrader: (4)

Agreed! There is no substitute for Bogarts. It hard for people to judge them when they don't own them. You have to own them, feel them without a tire on, feel them with a tire on and see for yourself how perfect they fit and look once on your car. Then you can make a judgement on them. As far as I'm concerned, my Bogart Bolted RT's were the best mod that I did to my car! And thanks again for all your help Steve, you are a top notch vendor and a hell of a nice guy to deal with. Your pricing is A+ too!!

68maro

i have felt them both ways as stated my best friend has a set of d-6's i had planned on purchasing a set until i saw the way they broke on his car. and as far as weight i'm going to check them because his rim with a 27x11.5qtp feels the same weight as my centerline with a 28x12.5 et street

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

Your happy with your rims, thats obvious. Let it die.

Your comparison of two different size rims and two different size tires is a poor standard of comparison. It is not difficult to call centerline and get the weights of your rim. Your friend rear should weigh ~10.5-11lbs. Your centerline rim is certainly higher closer to ~15-16 lbs. A weld prostar is ~14-14.5.

Weight alone is NOT the only factor, even if a rim was similar in weight, the way that the weight is distributed is important. The more mass that can be transferred toward the center of rotation is important. i.e. Take a 5 lb weight, rotating it on a string 5 ft long will require more energy then if the same weight was attached to a 2 ft string. Bogart rims are built with this in mind, the P2 series have even a better advantage. Weld recognizes this advantage also and designs their rims to optimize mass.

I can talk till I'm blue in the face, and you still won't realize that a higher end Weld rim and our higher end Bogarts are a superior engineered rim. Weld and Bogart don't just wave a magic wand and say, lets make these rims real expensive and not have any benifits over an economy styled rim. The idea of an ecomomy rim gives the consumer a lower cost at some loss in features.

Once again, as long as your satisifed with what you have is all that matters. Your rim isn't a bad rim, what has been stated all along is just as you can purchase a high end product in different areas of a vehicle, there are higher end rims also.

Regarding the front runner your referring to which was damaged, that rim and ONE other front runner are the ONLY 2 F-body designed rims that I am aware of that have EVER been damaged. From diagnosis, it appeared was due to a combination of excessive pressure in the tire creating a higher load on the rim bead combined with the type of tire which created a stress fracture at the bead. It was repaired at mimimal costs to the purchaser.

Prostar and draglites smaller rims are NOT meant for street use. I do not know the failure rate for centerline or weld rims but I can assure you that they can fail when not used for their intended purposes. For how many P1 rims that are currently being used on F-bodies, I feel our track record is outstanding.

I'm finished commenting on this thread as it now has nothing to do with what Steve's initially had quesitons with. Once again, Steve has made a good choice out of economy run rims. He has them mounted and is using them and I'm sure is quite happy with his choices.

Steve
Pres.

Hardtop

iTrader: (3)

Bogarts hands down. I got the first set for 4th gens, and my car has never been trailered to the track. Been trailered home but that's another story..... Many street miles cruising and drive to and from the track. No problems, and they still look great. As they say, you get what you pay for.

Bruce