[quote]Originally posted by KECHME:
<strong>Boy Chris you really told me! Hey, I AGREE WITH YOU 100%!!! My statements about "seeing a pro 5.0 car go down" were not made out of ignorance, I know what those cars are capable of. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Kechme.....you could build a Red Flyer Waggon that would run with Pro 5.0 if you had enough money!!! Thats like a poor man saying "Damn, I would be rich if I had alot of money". Any other wise statements before I go on?

Fact is....a Pro 5.0 level Ls1 F-body has no place right now, and it prob will never have a place like the stang racers. If you want to race a really fast F-body....sign up for some NSCA races...have fun wasteing thousands a weekend trying to sort out your combo...and prob not winning a race for a year or so. And lets hope that your not nieve enough to think that sponsership money backs all of it <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

Chris

 

Did I call that or what????

Paraphrasing.... The Colonel wants A 3000lb class because his car just happens to weigh 3060lbs and he's tight with PSJ. No Problem
<img src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Then he puts a trans restrition on the 3400lb class which just happens to be what the SAM car weighs (3408). Now the SAM guys have to either strip a nice car to nothing to be own a level playing field or put a six speed back in the car.

Like I said... It helps to be in tight with the man making the rules.

Did I call it or what?????

[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: Joe Kizzire ]</p>

 

[quote]Originally posted by Joe Kizzire:
<strong>Oh I see.... you want a class with rules to fit you (ie strip the car to the bone where it's not usable or nothing but racing). So really you don't want a unlimted class you want a Colonel class.... That shouldn't be to hard being that you and PSJ is really tight.

<img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>

[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: Joe Kizzire ]</p>

 

[quote]Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
So liteweight cars like the Colonel would fall into Xtreme Street NA... 3000 minimum raceweight, no transmission restrictions. Super street would have a 3400 racweight and require a OEM style transmission... [/QB]<hr></blockquote>

<img src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

 

[quote]Originally posted by Cmarsh93z:
<strong>

Kechme.....you could build a Red Flyer Waggon that would run with Pro 5.0 if you had enough money!!! Thats like a poor man saying "Damn, I would be rich if I had alot of money". Any other wise statements before I go on?

Fact is....a Pro 5.0 level Ls1 F-body has no place right now, and it prob will never have a place like the stang racers. If you want to race a really fast F-body....sign up for some NSCA races...have fun wasteing thousands a weekend trying to sort out your combo...and prob not winning a race for a year or so. And lets hope that your not nieve enough to think that sponsership money backs all of it <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

Chris</strong><hr></blockquote>

Chris, tell me some thing I did'nt know. I understand that pro 5.0 is light years ahead of us at this point in time. BUT, why should'nt I want the chance to TRY to start catching up. If the words pro 5.0 offend you so much then lets use a different class, lets just shoot for the renegade class this year. Do you honestly think that 10 years ago anybody would believe that a pro 5.0 car would have over 2000HP, or run deep in the 6's? I know that we have to start some where and to me that some where is a class for out law F bodies. Why don't we come together and build something here, instead of arguing about how nieve I am.

 

[quote]Originally posted by Y2K Blackbird:
<strong>You guys make me LOL. Your talking about someone spending 25k for a car and then worrying about payments so they dont want a race car. Hell, the damn motors in Pro-5.0 cars cost 100k plus, the 25.1 chassis are an easy 75k and with just a sitting car they have 250,000+ in them. Then you need spare motors, motor parts, trans, 250,000 rigs, etc, etc. Some of these outfits are 1 million plus operations at any given event.They can at times blow the doors off of NHRA Pro-Stockers. Not to mention that the new John Bennett motors are making 2200hp. I'll keep my ls1 but will be smart enough to know who the kings are. Maybe in 10 years the ls1 may catch up. Thats about how far the technology is behind as far as R&D goes.But as for now I would like to see some rules laid down and a racing organization formed that can grow and become popular.That way we can class race in a race organization and not www.com race.I'm looking for an easy 20k+ dump next year into my bird and would like to run at least mid 9's with a 400+ cube motor and a direct port. But where? At my local tracks bracket racing?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Y2KB, the normal enthusiast is not going to go out and buy a 2002 mustang and send it to the chassis shop and drop 70K having a tube chassis car built for pro 5.0. But for some reason there are a bunch of late model pro 5.0 cars, WHY? Because there is a class for them to run in.

 

[quote]Originally posted by KECHME:
<strong>

If the words pro 5.0 offend you so much then lets use a different class, lets just shoot for the renegade class this year Why don't we come together and build something here, instead of arguing about how nieve I am.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That sounds alot better. Im not trying to shoot you down personally...don't think that. Its just I have been around several Pro 5.0 teams, and I know the money and work that go's along with it. They are like Y2k said, millon dollar operations. Now since 4th gens are in the mid to low 9 sec bracket, a renegade type race would be badass. Or better yet.....a True Street type race...30 mile cruise, ect. Im all for "Keeping hope alive" and all that madness.....but we have to be realistic <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

Chris

[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: Cmarsh93z ]</p>

 

HOLY COW, If Chris Marsh and Sean Freese can agree to start somewhere, then why can't you people that actually like each other do the same?J/K Chris <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> . Is the NFRA gonna just go belly up? Lets get some thing started NOW.

 

[quote]Originally posted by KECHME:
<strong>HOLY COW, If Chris Marsh and Sean Freese can agree to start somewhere, then why can't you people that actually like each other do the same?J/K Chris <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> . Is the NFRA gonna just go belly up? Lets get some thing started NOW.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Apparently the recent cold temps made it down to hell. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

 

Joe K, how about you make the classes. I'm dead F*cking serious, make the rules. I JUST WANT A PLACE TO RACE THIS SEASON. You people must not want a place to race your cars. I drove all the way to BG to watch other people run thier cars last September, I did this just to show my support. John/Chris, make some classes or leave them the same as the last event. I had an excellent time and will come to every event you guys can schedule this season. If some people don't like the rules, TOUGH SH*T, deal with it. Lets just not let the NFRA slip away because some key board racer over on www.camaro/whatever.com does'nt like the color of the new logo.

 

I have no problem with the rules as stated.

What I do have a problem with is rules being changed to accomidate "The Colonel". I don't care what kind of reasoning PSJ comes up with myself and a lot of other people know it's true. Last year the weight rule was 3300lbs.... The only person to complain about it not being light enough was "The Colonel". He had to add weight and in turn it took his car out of the hunt. He could not run the numbers he had been posting as his best so instead of finding more horsepower so that he could be competitive at 3300lbs he starts crying and now John and Chris are going to change the rule to 3000lbs.

Personally I think the Extreme street should be left at 3300 and the heavier class be at 3550.
(with driver)

 

[quote]Originally posted by KECHME:
<strong>Joe K, how about you make the classes. I'm dead F*cking serious, make the rules. I JUST WANT A PLACE TO RACE THIS SEASON. You people must not want a place to race your cars. I drove all the way to BG to watch other people run thier cars last September, I did this just to show my support. John/Chris, make some classes or leave them the same as the last event. I had an excellent time and will come to every event you guys can schedule this season. If some people don't like the rules, TOUGH SH*T, deal with it. Lets just not let the NFRA slip away because some key board racer over on www.camaro/whatever.com does'nt like the color of the new logo.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well said <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> I was there for the same reasons,see some old freinds and have a great time <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

 

Joe, must you always see the negative sides of everything? Such a cynical person, you need to get out more bud!

You say these classes "cater to Colonel" but I disagree. What is wrong with a 3400 lb OEM tranny class? That fits the MAJORITY of our cars just fine. Should we cater the class to Judson instead, or to a TON of entries? Judson can lighten his car up easily, he has an entire pit crew with wrenches and deep pockets. Would he want to? Who knows. He seemed to do just fine in a heavier car at the last event, winning BOTH classes he entered. Imagine how that car/driver combo would work with less weight?

Also, his pit crew could swap a T56 into that car in a couple hours, and we have clutches that work now, so no excuses. Just another option

Tony

 

And FWIW Joe, defend yourself, don't talk for Judson.

Who wants to race in Street NA if the fastest car is a 13.5:1 compression race car? And I don't like the idea of transbrakes in the Street NA class either.

These classes are a variation of past events.

I'd do a true street cruise (30 miles, can't pop hood during the cruise and during the race) but it's expensive.

 

Joe, quit <img src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" border="0" alt="[whiner]" /> ing! Nobody has set any rules in stone yet, everyone is offering their own suggestions. What is so wrong with Colonel offering his own suggestion? You offered your suggestion too, and is your opinion more important than anyone elses?

Joe, you are becoming quite the attention *****, despite your tendency to say how bad attention ****** are. Is it all about "make Joe happy" in your small world or what?

And to answer your question, yes, PSJ, Colonel, and I own this site. What does that have to do with raceweight discussions of an event that isn't even created yet?

Joe, king of putting his $0.02 in and wanting change.

Tony

 

[quote]Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong>Maybe I should have used a different person as an example, not Colonel. That is not the all-about-Colonel class. I know of other NON-LS1 cars that are coming in at 3000 raceweight.

If I/We do NFRA 2002, count on a differentiation between Xtreme and Super Street. SAM car goes into Xtreme with that transmission...

Xtreme NA: 3000 min, NA, no tranny limitations.
Xtreme PA: 3000 min, PA, no tranny limitations.

Street NA: 3400 min, NA, OEM tranny, OEM block.
Street PA: 3400 min, PA, OEM tranny, OEM block.

Also thinking about Factory stock, a bolton class, weight would be an issue.

Joe, the reality is this. It's possible to get a 4th gen down to 3000-3100 raceweight. It's also possible to have a chunky 3700 raceweight too.

I personally have no interest in doing all the work to put this together if people don't see the value in having two different classes. The heavy folks moan about the lighter cars. Then a bunch of heavy AND light folks don't come. Show me why I should bother in 2002. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

Thanks for your input, I have all the info I need. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Define OEM block.

I get this funny feeling that my iron block is not going to be considered a OEM block but a resleeved aluminum block is. Anybody wanna bet?????

[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: Joe Kizzire ]</p>

 

Ok, so Stephen wants the 3000 pound class, so do I. Any body that wants to have an unlimited class of some flavor would love to see a lower wieght limit. Why did I buy a tubular K frame, remove all kinds of crap from my car, install light wieght wheels and tires etc etc etc....? BECAUSE I AM TRYING TO GO AS FAST AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. I could care less if you disagree with my logic. If you don't want to run with my light wieght car then don't enter the unlimited class. I am sure that there is a class that is more suited to your combo. BTW, even if I don't get a 3000 pound class this year, I won't be adding wieght to my car. I will just show up and exhibition, and maybe do some grudge raceing. Either way, I will be there to show support for the NFRA.

 

Ok, so Stephen wants the 3000 pound class, so do I. Any body that wants to have an unlimited class of some flavor would love to see a lower wieght limit. Why did I buy a tubular K frame, remove all kinds of crap from my car, install light wieght wheels and tires etc etc etc....? BECAUSE I AM TRYING TO GO AS FAST AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. I could care less if you disagree with my logic. If you don't want to run with my light wieght car then don't enter the unlimited class. I am sure that there is a class that is more suited to your combo. BTW, even if I don't get a 3000 pound class this year, I won't be adding wieght to my car. I will just show up and exhibition, and maybe do some grudge raceing. Either way, I will be there to show support for the NFRA.

 

To an extent, I think an organization like NFRA needs to cater to the racers. The whole point of organizing something is to unite the racers. In this case the F-Body scene.

These classes I referred to would be open to all EFI 3rd and 4th gens. I have LT1 guys who could run 9's at 3000 raceweight... on motor. They would do battle with a Colonel or anyone else who ran the Xtreme NA class.

 

[quote]Originally posted by Joe Kizzire:
<strong>Last year the weight rule was 3300lbs.... The only person to complain about it not being light enough was "The Colonel". He had to add weight and in turn it took his car out of the hunt. He could not run the numbers he had been posting as his best so instead of finding more horsepower so that he could be competitive at 3300lbs he starts crying and now John and Chris are going to change the rule to 3000lbs.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I thought Stephen had "valvetrain or Crank Bolt" issues which caused his car not to perform anywhere upto par? <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0">


I like the idea of what PSJ said: NA unlimited, PA unlimited, NA Street, PA Street, and any other class. More than likely if I get my car together in time, I may not fit into a particular category to place in the winnings, so I may exhibition also.... <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

Another Racing Series for Street Cars: http://www.fasteststreetcar.com/ <img src="graemlins/formula.gif" border="0" alt="[Pontiac]" />