Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Al Corda's S/E Formula is badass, but don't kid yourself into thinking S/E cars are "street cars". Not even close! Their only restriction on the camshaft is the stock lift, but they can go hog-wild with durations, ramp rates, and lobe seperation. If you saw the cam specs they use in S/E cars, you would probably faint. They make the T1 cam look puny.

Also, those cars are all about maximizing HP for every inch of the track. Very loose converters, spooled rearends, and 5.XX gearing, not to mention cut fenders for 28" or larger slicks. You will not find a stock piece of suspension under those cars either, even the S/E Corvettes run a modified Ford 9" rear with HUGE independent rear axles.

Also, the internal motor components might be stock, but they are not "off the shelf" stock. They are allowed to rebalance every single item and build the motors to higher tolerances. Sure, the heads might not be ported, but several S/E cars are guilty of "acid porting" and have been busted before. Its a way of using acid to eat away the port material yet keep the stock cast looking finishes. Not that Al is doing this, but it has been done many times. I guarantee that LS1 is not shifting at 6000-6200 rpm like a normal stock LS1 car.

Also, have you seen under the hood? Bet it just has an open T-body with no MAF or filter in front of it. It will also have a crank position sensor on the front of the crank pulley so that its new computer management system can function.

No power steering, Electric water pumps, no accessories under the hood, stepped custom headers that are wide open, and a bare minimum interior with a racing seat. Far from your typical LS1 "street" car.

Al will hit 9s soon, and that will rule. The LS1 currently holds the NHRA S/E records, gotta love this motor!!

Get that guy to become a sponsor on this site if you claim he is as good as you say. We would like his input, we DO have some hardcore guys here that would be willing to set their cars up to S/E style.

Tony

Red02LS1

Tony- I know for sure you have a lot more knowledge of what he could offer members of this site than I do. I'v loved cars my whole life, but I'm only 22, and just started getting into/trying to learn the more in-depth technical area of performance. I'm reading this site everyday trying to learn more, lol. Currently he is doing a couple setups for LS1 owners around the Minnapolis area. Mabye you could talk to him and see what he has to say. I'm sure you could have an interesting conversation with him.

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Could you send me his email address if you have it? I'll contact him.

Tony <img src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

racer7088

I've talked to him a couple of times and he knows what's going on. SE cars are all out race cars but also are an engine builder's class where you have to know what's going on to run, that's for sure. They don't allow ported heads but allow valve jobs. It's a very weird class but they can haul ***.

Villain281H

iTrader: (5)

As Tony mentioned, stock eliminator is about maximizing your combo for 1/4 blasts, not street/strip combos. But Al Corda knows that game. He has been racing almost 2 decades in stock eliminator, and before he ran the ls1 car he had an older dodge challenger I believe and won an NHRA stock eliminator championship. He definately knows the score on how to make these cars perform! Having him on here would kick-***!
<img src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" border="0" alt="[hail]" />
Derek

BLK95TA

iTrader: (1)

[quote]Originally posted by Nine Ball:
<strong>
No power steering, Electric water pumps, no accessories under the hood, stepped custom headers that are wide open, and a bare minimum interior with a racing seat. Far from your typical LS1 "street" car.
Tony</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hmmm, I dunno, that sounds a whole lot like StreetStalkers car.

<img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

Bob Cosby

FYI....as listed on nhraonline.com....the following records are held by LS1's in Stock Eliminator:

C/S 10.52 128.16 04/14/00 Tom Russell - Sparta, OH
'98 Pontiac Firebird Atco, NJ

G/SA 10.97 121.83 04/14/00 Joe Garbarine - Neptune, NJ '99 Pont Formula Atco, NJ

Crazyquik

I saw that too Bob, I think they've failed to update that. I know Al had ran 10.3 a long time ago (not sure if it was in an NHRA race, qualifying, or just test-n-tune though).

[quote]even the S/E Corvettes run a modified Ford 9" rear with HUGE independent rear axles.<hr></blockquote>

Sounds like something you should look into Tony if you're planning on a Vette <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[Burnout]" />

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

No way I'd do that to a Vette. If I do get one, it won't be dragraced very often, and probably will never have any drag tires put on it. Besides, those jacked up S/E vettes sit out back like a 4x4! haha

Tony

Red02LS1

It wasn't Al Corda that I talked to, it was the man who built and designed his car and motor. And the car has ran a 10.04. I saw the timeslip. Anyways, I'll try to get Brian Elbert's email and post it here. Heck this is LS1tech, and those cars are still LS1's. I'm sure we could all benefit from having some of the tech knowledge on here, and mabye get HiTech as a sponser to do some work for our cars. Mabye even a new section "street eliminator/hardcore race LS1's"

Red02LS1

his email is htmtrsprt@aol.com
not sure how often he checks it.

Bob Cosby

I'm certainly not doubting his time. If he did it at 3100 lbs, then it likely was not at NHRA Stock Eliminator legal weight for his class (that's a guess - I don't know what the factory weight is for those cars, and I don't know what HP NHRA factors the LS1 to).

Also, he might have run under the record at a National Event. The problem is you cannot set a Sportsman record at a national event (don't know why), and thus it wouldn't have counted.

horsepower

[quote]Originally posted by Red02LS1:
<strong>Whats the difference.... </strong><hr></blockquote>


besides everything mentioned, they dont have to run the stock PCM - so no problems with crap like torque managment, knock retard, MAF tuning, etc....they dont even bother with MAFs. They are pretty much tuned for WOT.

Several others are well in 10s with similar configs - Al Corda, Joe Garbarine, etc.

HTMtrSprt

Hi all,
Just got off the phone with ProStockJohn after an interesting conversation and I figured I better post something quick. Red02LS1 stopped in to the shop last night and I talked with him at length about LS1's and other things but I had no idea he would make the enthusiastic posts that he did so soon after we spoke. While I certainly appreciate his excitement and hope that I can help him with his goals, he received an awful lot of info here and some of the facts are now just a little off AND, I'm starting to sound like some kind of diety. <img src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0">
So, I'm here to set my feet in cement and make some small corrections. I can't remember all the facts that are off, but if you have any questions, I'll be glad to answer them.

First, Al's car ran 10.04 with 1.29 60' at 2950 lbs, legal weight for IHRA Top Stock. It's only capable of a 10.18 (my best guess) at sea level in legal NHRA C/SA weight - 3085 lbs (these weights are WITH driver). The engine has stock compression and no valve notches in the pistons so the cam, while big in duration, is no where near as big as you may think. The suspension has to be stock, with "bolt on traction devices", but does have adjustable shocks. Yes, the engine does get shifted above 7000 RPM but I'm not at liberty to disclose gear ratio's or stall speeds. The car also has to have two stock seats and is fully carpeted with a stock dash and working lights and even power windows.

The comment about "600 cfm heads" and "100 more horsepower" was in reference to an article published in the National Dragster written by David Reher (of Reher-Morrison Racing Engines).

That's all I can remember right at the moment but I know there's more so I post again later (if anyone even cares). I'm sure this should be an enjoyable forum, and I'll try to keep up to date.

Take care everyone,
Brian Ebert
HiTech Motorsport

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

Some of you guys are pretty naive if you think the heads are stock and flow stock...LOL! NHRA allows for "trick valve jobs". Savvy engine builders will spend hundreds, if not thousands of hours working on complex valve angles in the head, trick back-cuts on the valves and more.

FYI, most Stage II heads flow around 220 cfm at .300 lift, 255 at .400 lift and 285 at .500 lift. These "stock" heads flow around 240 at .300, 270 at .400 and 290 at 500. That's without touching the ports. There's that much flow around the valve if you just pay attention to it (we're talking YEARS of practice).

Cams? You think 224/224 on a 112 LSA is pretty beefy? Try 265/260 on a 111 LSA. Emissions? Smooth idle? Fuel economy? Hah!!

Add to this a chassis set-up that will hook to the tune of 1.25-1.30 in 60' time. Street car? Hardly. Very fast? Absolutely.

BradWS6

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the info Brian <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> I'm very interested in these cars <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

And I want to thank Red02LS1 for joining us AND bringing over Brian. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

Wow 2950 lb raceweight with stock seats and dash.

I am at 3625 lb raceweight! 11.1 NA.

I'd really like to know where else I can take weight out.

I'm guessing that the S/E cars run like 7200-7500 shift points, and big oil pressure to pump up the lifters, a 4.88, and a 5500 stall.

Do the SE cars run a full pcv system? I see the breather on the passenger side valve cover, is that a Metco?

Bob Cosby

[quote]legal NHRA C/SA weight - 3085 lbs<hr></blockquote>

Wow...I was under the impression that NHRA wouldn't let you go that low on weight. I guess I assumed that the listed weight of the cars wouldn't be any lower than 3300 lbs, and that 200 lbs would take it too far away from the 1 up and 1 down from the class you would naturally fit in. Perhaps that isn't enforced anymore, or I'm just wrong?

Learn something new every day. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> Good job!

JimmyKash

i'll tell you a little trick that i know many of these Stock Eliminator guys do

many of them run a trans called a 200C

it is a very old and crappy transmission but the benefit of these is that they are LIGHT as hell.

i'm talking one person could pick up the entire transmission with converter installed with ease.

They take a lot to be beef up though, but these cars are no street cars so what does it matter?

just thought you all might find that interesting <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

HTMtrSprt

Patrick, I can't speak for other engines, but a non acid ported LS1 head, limited to a stock seat angle with 1 top cut and 1 bottom cut (3 angles only) only flows about 235-240 cfm. To put a cam you described in an LS1 would require sinking the valve seats so far into the head it would kill all the port flow.

As far as weight goes, the published shipping weight from Pontiac for a '99 Formula coupe with Ram Air was 3030lbs (phony spec for NHRA?). That put the 320 hp combo at 9.47lbs/hp, the heavy end of C/S - C/SA (9.00-9.49 lbs/hp). You are allowed to lighten the car to the light end of that class or add weight to drop one class (D/S). At 320hp (which has been 'adjusted' to 324 now) x 9.00 lbs, that means the car has to weigh 2880 + a 170 lb allotment for the driver which equals 3050 lbs. 324 hp means it has to weigh 3085. I believe the Ram Air combo is being hit again to 332 hp meaning it will have to weigh 3160 to start the '02 season.

HiTech