Startup issues after light weight battery
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Startup issues after light weight battery Hey guys I think I know whats going on but I thought I might try to get some opinions here. I recently installed a shorai lithium battery for the first couple days it was fine but then I had to disconnect it/reset the pcm to make a new hold down. Fast foward and now in the early mornings after the car sat overnight I will crank the car up and it will immediatley die I have to feather the pedal for a couple secs. I also notice that the alternator is charging the battery more than normal at this point 14-15 volts. I think this is because the battery has a lower capcaity than the stock one so it has to make up for it.
I am resetting the pcm again now to see if that makes a difference. If not then I suppose I shuld up startup airflow to adjust for the alt load increase during startup cycle? Any opinions or similar problems with you all?
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I am resetting the pcm again now to see if that makes a difference. If not then I suppose I shuld up startup airflow to adjust for the alt load increase during startup cycle? Any opinions or similar problems with you all?
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Link to your battery? Why Lithium? I run an XS Power AGM battery and its been great to me. I killed it the other day and actually it recovered well and is still starting like a champ. Price was good at $150ish. As with any battery that may sit, float charging is mandatory! No exceptions if its not your daily driver. Also, check your connections and your heavy gauge wire for corrosion. I've replaced all of mine and it makes a noticeable difference in how the starter sounds when its turning over.
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http://shoraipower.com/lfx36a3-bs12-p126
Thats the link. This one ran me 200 from amazon, its pretty popular with the vette crowd. It weighs 4 lbs and has 540 cranking amps and the AH rating on it is better than any of the deka's brailles etc that I saw. Thus the reason for lithium and its supposde to have a crazy life span and slower self discharge rate if you leave it on a shelf. It is my DD so i start it every day and honestly the battery never has trouble cranking the car at all. Thats why I dont suspect connections at all.
I think it may be because the battery is smaller the alternator works harder after I first start the car. This is evident by my gauge which shows 14-15v in the morning when i start it. The older battery had more reserve so the alternator didnt really need to charge it as much. I'm thinking the increased load of the alternator is too much and causes it to die on first start. If i feather the gas when its cold i can keep it running easily. After about 10 secs it idles just fine and I can do whatever i need to do and the car never dies after that first startup since it gets warmed up
Thats the link. This one ran me 200 from amazon, its pretty popular with the vette crowd. It weighs 4 lbs and has 540 cranking amps and the AH rating on it is better than any of the deka's brailles etc that I saw. Thus the reason for lithium and its supposde to have a crazy life span and slower self discharge rate if you leave it on a shelf. It is my DD so i start it every day and honestly the battery never has trouble cranking the car at all. Thats why I dont suspect connections at all.
I think it may be because the battery is smaller the alternator works harder after I first start the car. This is evident by my gauge which shows 14-15v in the morning when i start it. The older battery had more reserve so the alternator didnt really need to charge it as much. I'm thinking the increased load of the alternator is too much and causes it to die on first start. If i feather the gas when its cold i can keep it running easily. After about 10 secs it idles just fine and I can do whatever i need to do and the car never dies after that first startup since it gets warmed up
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
My needle runs a little higher after startup as well it seemed like. As for the car not running that was likely due to you losing all your fuel and idle trim info when you disconnected your battery. It should work itself out on its own.
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ya its just happened the past couple mornings. i was thinking maybe the startup routine got a little messed up with the pcm reset we'll see what happens now that i did another pcm clear and if not i'll look at adding a little airflow in the tune
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I reset the pcm and haven't had any issues since lol knock on the wood probably just a glitch in the pcm. Anyway other than that the Shorai is great it has 540 cca compared to other small batteries with like 300-350. The reserve capacity is better as well. Plus it weighs 4.5 lbs as opposed to 15 for some of the others lol. Only downside it's 250 for one as opposed to 125 for some of the others but it's supposed to last longer and discharge much slower
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actually the lithium battery i have in the link above has more reserve than the 680 Steve is using as well as most other light batteries. Since I reset the pcm everything has been doing fine and even after leaving the car sit for 2 days due to hurting my back it still fired right up with 13v on cranking.
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
I heard lithiums didnt like dirty alternator power but preferred actual battery chargers making them ideal for race only cars.....maybe thats changed??
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The original pure lithium's yes they also had fire problems lol. These new ones are lithium-iron or lithium-phosphate depending on the brand and are much safer. They are fine on alternators and stator systems like bikes, powersport vehicles etc.
Hiossilver on here has been running this battery for a few years since it first came out and like I said its popular with guys on the corvette forum. Since I reset the pcm mines been great on initial install it was fine as well. It wasnt until I disconnected it to make a mount that it behaved odd but since that reset itrs been normal.
I dont see a reason to go with a normal lead acid unless you cant fork over the extra hundred for the lithium. the 680 at 130 or so is still a deal but for another 100 bucks you drop another 10 lbs and gain more reserve capacity. The lithium here is rated at 36 amp hrs on a lead acid scale while the 680 is around 25iirc.
I will say this, its a little weird but its not a problem. If you live in a cold climate the lithium battery is a little sluggish. the other day it was 25 out here which is rare for florida but it happens.... anyway the battery was a little slow to crank over. lithiums dont like the cold, so the directions are to turn on the headlights or stereo to "warm" it up that goes against conventional wisdom as that would drain it. BUT with the lithium its needed I turned on the headlights for about 30 seconds and once the battery warmed up it fired right up no hesitiation. not a problem just something to get used to lol
Hiossilver on here has been running this battery for a few years since it first came out and like I said its popular with guys on the corvette forum. Since I reset the pcm mines been great on initial install it was fine as well. It wasnt until I disconnected it to make a mount that it behaved odd but since that reset itrs been normal.
I dont see a reason to go with a normal lead acid unless you cant fork over the extra hundred for the lithium. the 680 at 130 or so is still a deal but for another 100 bucks you drop another 10 lbs and gain more reserve capacity. The lithium here is rated at 36 amp hrs on a lead acid scale while the 680 is around 25iirc.
I will say this, its a little weird but its not a problem. If you live in a cold climate the lithium battery is a little sluggish. the other day it was 25 out here which is rare for florida but it happens.... anyway the battery was a little slow to crank over. lithiums dont like the cold, so the directions are to turn on the headlights or stereo to "warm" it up that goes against conventional wisdom as that would drain it. BUT with the lithium its needed I turned on the headlights for about 30 seconds and once the battery warmed up it fired right up no hesitiation. not a problem just something to get used to lol
Last edited by redbird555; Mar 5, 2015 at 11:35 PM.
My car isn't a DD but it does get used on weekends and I do go to the track with it when the weather is nice. My car sits in the cold garage for months. If I get a lithium battery should I take it out and bring it inside for the winter. Is there a special charger I need. I should note I live in NJ.
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Well like any small battery if the car doesnt get used much then I would keep the battery out of the car. Shorai makes a charger for it which is around 60 bucks iirc and will work for any lithium battery. It's a floater and can just be left on it I believe. You CANNOT use a normal float charger like a battery tender as it will damage a lithium. You can use a standard household charger but you have to charge it on the 2 amp setting and keep an eye on it.
If I had a race car I would probably just have the shorai charger so i could leave it and not worry. Lithiums do discharge extremely slow though so if you just have it in a garage they are supposed to keep a charge for a year or more sitting on a shelf. the optimum storage temp for lithiium is around 32degrees so cold shouldnt hurt them.
link to shorai faq page
http://shoraipower.com/faq
here is the charger it will also show if damage to the battery has occurred.
http://shoraipower.com/chargers-c43
FWIW my draw sitting is a little larger than stock, I replaced the factory monsson amp in my car with a JL 6ch pushing 600wx6ch and a 10" fosgate sub with a separate kenwood amp powering that. Both those amps have a constant 12v source. Like I said above I left the car to sit for 2 days due to my back and when I turned the key she came right up to 13v and crank over.
If I had a race car I would probably just have the shorai charger so i could leave it and not worry. Lithiums do discharge extremely slow though so if you just have it in a garage they are supposed to keep a charge for a year or more sitting on a shelf. the optimum storage temp for lithiium is around 32degrees so cold shouldnt hurt them.
link to shorai faq page
http://shoraipower.com/faq
here is the charger it will also show if damage to the battery has occurred.
http://shoraipower.com/chargers-c43
FWIW my draw sitting is a little larger than stock, I replaced the factory monsson amp in my car with a JL 6ch pushing 600wx6ch and a 10" fosgate sub with a separate kenwood amp powering that. Both those amps have a constant 12v source. Like I said above I left the car to sit for 2 days due to my back and when I turned the key she came right up to 13v and crank over.
Last edited by redbird555; Mar 6, 2015 at 09:40 AM.
Glad to hear the PCM reset helped it out red. I don't drive my car for days sometimes cause i work from home and so far that shoria battery has not failed to start the car......even in single digit weather. Like red said sometimes you have so warm it up by turning stuff on. It would be nice in my climate to have a little bigger one. Maybe I'll put that one in my jetski and get 2 smaller ones to have more capacity.