Do we need a 5 or 6 point cage???
02-13-2002, 01:09 PM
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Re: Do we need a 5 or 6 point cage??? Yeah, sounds like 5 to me. I called and changed my order from a 6 point with a swing out bar $600 to a 5 point $485. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
I'm sure the install will be cheaper also.
I'm sure the install will be cheaper also.
02-13-2002, 04:01 PM
#3
Re: Do we need a 5 or 6 point cage??? Yes a 5 pt is legal. Most shops recommend a 6pt for safety reasons. I know that unfortunately some of my customers and myself have hit the wall and the integrity of a 5 pt bar isnt there. To build a truely strong roll bar or cage you make everything in triangles. If the ball has only one door bar and the car gets on its side or upside down it will rip the main hoop out of the floor.
On another note the rules will be changing in 2003 and it looks like from my sources that you will have to have a 6pt.
Also you CANNAOT have dual swingouts on a 6pt bar only a full cage. Yes some tracks let you get away with it but NHRA doesnt.
Colonel, a full 10pt weight is about 75lbs with gussets and seatbelt tabs etc.
On another note the rules will be changing in 2003 and it looks like from my sources that you will have to have a 6pt.
Also you CANNAOT have dual swingouts on a 6pt bar only a full cage. Yes some tracks let you get away with it but NHRA doesnt.
Colonel, a full 10pt weight is about 75lbs with gussets and seatbelt tabs etc.
02-14-2002, 12:08 AM
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Do we need a 5 or 6 point cage??? Everyone here is saying we only need a 5 point cage, and that the passenger door bar is unneccessary. But I just talked to Thunder Racing and they were POSITIVE that we need a 6 point cage, there was even a track inspector there that agreed that we need all 6 points. Can anyone clear this up for me???
Thanks!!!
Thanks!!!
02-14-2002, 12:23 AM
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Re: Do we need a 5 or 6 point cage??? I have always thought the passenger side was optional but people just put it in for extra strength.
Anyone have an NHRA rule book?
Anyone have an NHRA rule book?
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02-14-2002, 12:39 AM
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Re: Do we need a 5 or 6 point cage??? Some thing I found.
4.10 ROLL BARS
Roll bar mandatory in all cars running 11.00 (*7.00) to 11.99 (*7.49) and in convertibles running 11.00 (*7.00) to 13.99 (*8.59), and in dune-buggy type vehicles running 12.00 (*7.50) seconds and slower. Permitted in all cars
All roll bars must be within 6-inches (15.2 cm) of the rear, or side, of the driver's head, extend in height at least 3-inches (7.6 cm) above the driver's helmet with driver in normal driving position, and be at least as wide as the driver's shoulders or within 1-inch (2.5 cm) of the driver's door. Roll bar must be adequately supported or cross-braced to prevent forward or lateral collapse of roll bar. Rear braces must be of the same diameter and wall thickness as the roll bar and intersect with the roll bar at a point not more than 5-inches (12.7 cm) from the top of the roll bar. Sidebar must be included on driver's side. The side bar must pass the driver at a point midway between the shoulder and elbow. All vehicles with OEM frame must have roll bar attached to frame; installation of frame connectors on unibody cars does not constitute a frame and therefore it is not necessary to have the roll bar attached to the frame. Unibody cars with stock floor and firewall (wheel tubs permitted) may attach roll bar with 6-inch (15.2 cm) x 6-inch (15.2 cm) x .125-inch (3.2 mm) steel plates on top and bottom of floor bolted together with at least four 3/8-inch (9.53 mm) bolts and nuts, or weld main hoop to rocker sill area with .125-inch (3.2 mm) reinforcing plates. All 4130 chrome moly welding must be done by approved TIG Heliarc process; mild steel (or ST51) welding must be approved MIG wire feed or approved TIG heliarc process. Welding must be free of slag and porosity. Any grinding of welds prohibited. See illustration (Drawing 12).
Roll bar must be padded anywhere driver's helmet may contact it while in driving position. Adequate padding must have minimum 1/4-inch (6.35 mm) compression or meet SFI Spec 45.1.
4.11 ROLL CAGE
Roll cage mandatory in cars running 10.99 (*6.99) or quicker, or any car exceeding 135 mph (217.2 km/h). Full bodied cars, with unaltered firewall, floor and body (from firewall rearward, wheeltubs permitted), running between 10.00 (*6.40) and 10.99 (*6.99) roll bar permitted in place of roll cage. Cars running between 7.50 (*4.50) and 9.99 (*6.39) must have chassis inspected every three-years by the ASN and have a serialised sticker affixed to cage before participation. Must conform to specs for body style used, as listed in General Regulations
All cage structures must be designed in an attempt to protect the driver from any angle, 360-degrees. All 4130 chrome-moly tube welding must be done by approved TIG heliarc process; mild steel tube welding must be approved MIG wire feed or TIG heliarc process. Welding must be free of slag and porosity. any grinding of welds prohibited. Additionally, roll cage must be padded any where the driver's helmet may contact it while in the driving position. TAD, TAFC, Pro Stock, Funny Car & Top Fuel padding must meet SFI Spec 45.1.
Open Bodied cars
When driver is in driving position in an open bodied car, roll cage must be at least 3-inches (76 mm) in front of helmet. Cars without crossmember above driver's legs must have a strap or device to prevent legs from protruding outside chassis. On front-engine dragster, seat uprights and back braces must be arranged such that a flat surface passed over any two adjacent members will not contact the driver seat or containment. Additional uprights, max 30-degrees from vertical, must be added until this criteria is satisfied. When non-vertical upright or "running W" side bay designs are used (diagonals installed at greater than 30-degrees from vertical), adjacent roll cage diagonals must be the same size as that required for the upright. Motor mount and/or rear end uprights (except rear engine dragster) may be rectangular tubing, 1 3/4-inch x 1-inch x .058-inch (44.5 x 25.4 x 1.5 mm) CM or MS minimum.
Full Bodied Cars
On full bodied car, with driver in driving position, helmet must be in front of main hoop. If helmet is behind or under main hoop, additional tubing same size and thickness as roll cage must be added to protect driver. Main hoop may be laid back or forward but driver must be encapsulated within the required roll cage components.
All cage structures must have in their construction cross bar for seat bracing and as the shoulder harness attachment point; cross bar must be installed no more than 4-inches (102 mm) below, and not above, the driver's shoulders or to side bar. All required rear braces must be installed at a minimum angle of 30-degrees from vertical, and must be welded in. Side bar must pass the driver at a point midway between the shoulder and elbow.
Unless an O.E.M. frame rail is located below and outside of driver's legs (i.e. '55 Chevy, '65 Corvette, etc.) a rocker or sill bar, minimum 1 5/8-inch (41.2 mm) x .083 (2.1 mm) CM or .118 (3.0 mm) MS or 2-inch x 2-inch x .058-inch (50.8 x 50.8 x 1.5 mm) CM or MS rectangular, is mandatory in any car with a modified floor or rocker box within the roll cage uprights (excluding six square feet of transmission maintenance opening). Rocker bar must be installed below and outside of driver's legs, and must tie into the main hoop, the forward hoop, frame, frame extension or side diagonal. Rocker bar may not tie into swing out side bar support. If rocker bar ties into side diagonal more than 5-inches (127 mm) (edge to edge) from forward roll cage support or main hoop, a 1 5/8-inch (41.2 mm) x .083 (2.1 mm) CM or .118 (3.0 mm) MS brace/gusset is mandatory between the diagonal and forward roll cage support or main hoop.
Swing out side bar permitted on O.E.M. full bodied car 7.50 (*4.50) E.T. and slower. The following requirements (a through d) will be enforced on cars certified after 1/1/98, on all cars 1/1/99.
a. 1 5/8-inch (41.2 mm) O.D. x .083-inch (2.1 mm) (CM) or .118-inch (3.0 mm) (MS) minimum. Bolts / pins must be 3/8-inch (9.5 mm) diameter steel, minimum and in double shear at both ends.
b. Male or female clevis(es) permitted. Male clevis must use two minimum 1/8-inch (3.2 mm) thick brackets (CM or MS) welded to each roll cage upright; female must use minimum 1/4-inch (5.4 mm) thick bracket (CM or MS) welded to each roll cage upright. Pins must be within 8-inches (204 mm) of the vertical portion of both the forward and main hoops. A half cup backing device must be welded to the vertical portion of the main hoop (inward side) or the upper end of the swing out bar (outward side), minimum .118-inch (3.0 mm) wall (CM or MS) extending at least 1 5/8-inch (41.2 mm) past the center of the pins. A clevis assembly utilizing a minimum .350-inch (8.90 mm) thick male component and two minimum .175-inch (4.45 mm) thick female components may use a 1/2-inch (12.7 mm) diameter grade 5 bolt, and does not require a half cup backing device.
c. Sliding sleeves of 1 3/8-inch (35 mm) x .083-inch (2.1 mm) CM or .118 (3.0 mm) MS, with minimum 2-inch (51 mm) engagement, are permitted in lieu of the upper pin/cup.
d. All bolt/pin holes in the swing out bar must have at least one hole diameter of material around the outside of the hole.
For all dragsters, funny cars and other cars requiring a funny car or dragster style roll cage, the upper roll cage members must be arranged such that a flat surface passed over any two adjacent members will not contact the driver's helmet while the helmet is held in contact with the inner side of the same roll cage members. If the roll cage members do not satisfy this criteria, head/helmet guards of 3/4 x .049-inch (19.1 x 1.24 mm) round tube or 3/4 (19.1 mm) by .090-inch (2.29 mm) flat strap must be added until the criteria is satisfied.
Effective 1/1/98 for chassis certification, 1/1/99 on all cars requiring a roll cage:
If the O.E.M. firewall has been modified (in excess of 1 square foot (929 cm2) for transmission removal, not including bolted in components) a lower windshield or dash bar of 1 1/4 x .058-inch (32 x 1.5 mm) 4130 chrome moly or 1 1/4 x .118-inch (32 x 3.0 mm) mild steel is mandatory connecting the forward cage supports.
All information was taken off of the following site http://members.tripod.com/~MY5LTRLXCPE/NHRArules.html
[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: Bad Habit Bird ]</p>
4.10 ROLL BARS
Roll bar mandatory in all cars running 11.00 (*7.00) to 11.99 (*7.49) and in convertibles running 11.00 (*7.00) to 13.99 (*8.59), and in dune-buggy type vehicles running 12.00 (*7.50) seconds and slower. Permitted in all cars
All roll bars must be within 6-inches (15.2 cm) of the rear, or side, of the driver's head, extend in height at least 3-inches (7.6 cm) above the driver's helmet with driver in normal driving position, and be at least as wide as the driver's shoulders or within 1-inch (2.5 cm) of the driver's door. Roll bar must be adequately supported or cross-braced to prevent forward or lateral collapse of roll bar. Rear braces must be of the same diameter and wall thickness as the roll bar and intersect with the roll bar at a point not more than 5-inches (12.7 cm) from the top of the roll bar. Sidebar must be included on driver's side. The side bar must pass the driver at a point midway between the shoulder and elbow. All vehicles with OEM frame must have roll bar attached to frame; installation of frame connectors on unibody cars does not constitute a frame and therefore it is not necessary to have the roll bar attached to the frame. Unibody cars with stock floor and firewall (wheel tubs permitted) may attach roll bar with 6-inch (15.2 cm) x 6-inch (15.2 cm) x .125-inch (3.2 mm) steel plates on top and bottom of floor bolted together with at least four 3/8-inch (9.53 mm) bolts and nuts, or weld main hoop to rocker sill area with .125-inch (3.2 mm) reinforcing plates. All 4130 chrome moly welding must be done by approved TIG Heliarc process; mild steel (or ST51) welding must be approved MIG wire feed or approved TIG heliarc process. Welding must be free of slag and porosity. Any grinding of welds prohibited. See illustration (Drawing 12).
Roll bar must be padded anywhere driver's helmet may contact it while in driving position. Adequate padding must have minimum 1/4-inch (6.35 mm) compression or meet SFI Spec 45.1.
4.11 ROLL CAGE
Roll cage mandatory in cars running 10.99 (*6.99) or quicker, or any car exceeding 135 mph (217.2 km/h). Full bodied cars, with unaltered firewall, floor and body (from firewall rearward, wheeltubs permitted), running between 10.00 (*6.40) and 10.99 (*6.99) roll bar permitted in place of roll cage. Cars running between 7.50 (*4.50) and 9.99 (*6.39) must have chassis inspected every three-years by the ASN and have a serialised sticker affixed to cage before participation. Must conform to specs for body style used, as listed in General Regulations
All cage structures must be designed in an attempt to protect the driver from any angle, 360-degrees. All 4130 chrome-moly tube welding must be done by approved TIG heliarc process; mild steel tube welding must be approved MIG wire feed or TIG heliarc process. Welding must be free of slag and porosity. any grinding of welds prohibited. Additionally, roll cage must be padded any where the driver's helmet may contact it while in the driving position. TAD, TAFC, Pro Stock, Funny Car & Top Fuel padding must meet SFI Spec 45.1.
Open Bodied cars
When driver is in driving position in an open bodied car, roll cage must be at least 3-inches (76 mm) in front of helmet. Cars without crossmember above driver's legs must have a strap or device to prevent legs from protruding outside chassis. On front-engine dragster, seat uprights and back braces must be arranged such that a flat surface passed over any two adjacent members will not contact the driver seat or containment. Additional uprights, max 30-degrees from vertical, must be added until this criteria is satisfied. When non-vertical upright or "running W" side bay designs are used (diagonals installed at greater than 30-degrees from vertical), adjacent roll cage diagonals must be the same size as that required for the upright. Motor mount and/or rear end uprights (except rear engine dragster) may be rectangular tubing, 1 3/4-inch x 1-inch x .058-inch (44.5 x 25.4 x 1.5 mm) CM or MS minimum.
Full Bodied Cars
On full bodied car, with driver in driving position, helmet must be in front of main hoop. If helmet is behind or under main hoop, additional tubing same size and thickness as roll cage must be added to protect driver. Main hoop may be laid back or forward but driver must be encapsulated within the required roll cage components.
All cage structures must have in their construction cross bar for seat bracing and as the shoulder harness attachment point; cross bar must be installed no more than 4-inches (102 mm) below, and not above, the driver's shoulders or to side bar. All required rear braces must be installed at a minimum angle of 30-degrees from vertical, and must be welded in. Side bar must pass the driver at a point midway between the shoulder and elbow.
Unless an O.E.M. frame rail is located below and outside of driver's legs (i.e. '55 Chevy, '65 Corvette, etc.) a rocker or sill bar, minimum 1 5/8-inch (41.2 mm) x .083 (2.1 mm) CM or .118 (3.0 mm) MS or 2-inch x 2-inch x .058-inch (50.8 x 50.8 x 1.5 mm) CM or MS rectangular, is mandatory in any car with a modified floor or rocker box within the roll cage uprights (excluding six square feet of transmission maintenance opening). Rocker bar must be installed below and outside of driver's legs, and must tie into the main hoop, the forward hoop, frame, frame extension or side diagonal. Rocker bar may not tie into swing out side bar support. If rocker bar ties into side diagonal more than 5-inches (127 mm) (edge to edge) from forward roll cage support or main hoop, a 1 5/8-inch (41.2 mm) x .083 (2.1 mm) CM or .118 (3.0 mm) MS brace/gusset is mandatory between the diagonal and forward roll cage support or main hoop.
Swing out side bar permitted on O.E.M. full bodied car 7.50 (*4.50) E.T. and slower. The following requirements (a through d) will be enforced on cars certified after 1/1/98, on all cars 1/1/99.
a. 1 5/8-inch (41.2 mm) O.D. x .083-inch (2.1 mm) (CM) or .118-inch (3.0 mm) (MS) minimum. Bolts / pins must be 3/8-inch (9.5 mm) diameter steel, minimum and in double shear at both ends.
b. Male or female clevis(es) permitted. Male clevis must use two minimum 1/8-inch (3.2 mm) thick brackets (CM or MS) welded to each roll cage upright; female must use minimum 1/4-inch (5.4 mm) thick bracket (CM or MS) welded to each roll cage upright. Pins must be within 8-inches (204 mm) of the vertical portion of both the forward and main hoops. A half cup backing device must be welded to the vertical portion of the main hoop (inward side) or the upper end of the swing out bar (outward side), minimum .118-inch (3.0 mm) wall (CM or MS) extending at least 1 5/8-inch (41.2 mm) past the center of the pins. A clevis assembly utilizing a minimum .350-inch (8.90 mm) thick male component and two minimum .175-inch (4.45 mm) thick female components may use a 1/2-inch (12.7 mm) diameter grade 5 bolt, and does not require a half cup backing device.
c. Sliding sleeves of 1 3/8-inch (35 mm) x .083-inch (2.1 mm) CM or .118 (3.0 mm) MS, with minimum 2-inch (51 mm) engagement, are permitted in lieu of the upper pin/cup.
d. All bolt/pin holes in the swing out bar must have at least one hole diameter of material around the outside of the hole.
For all dragsters, funny cars and other cars requiring a funny car or dragster style roll cage, the upper roll cage members must be arranged such that a flat surface passed over any two adjacent members will not contact the driver's helmet while the helmet is held in contact with the inner side of the same roll cage members. If the roll cage members do not satisfy this criteria, head/helmet guards of 3/4 x .049-inch (19.1 x 1.24 mm) round tube or 3/4 (19.1 mm) by .090-inch (2.29 mm) flat strap must be added until the criteria is satisfied.
Effective 1/1/98 for chassis certification, 1/1/99 on all cars requiring a roll cage:
If the O.E.M. firewall has been modified (in excess of 1 square foot (929 cm2) for transmission removal, not including bolted in components) a lower windshield or dash bar of 1 1/4 x .058-inch (32 x 1.5 mm) 4130 chrome moly or 1 1/4 x .118-inch (32 x 3.0 mm) mild steel is mandatory connecting the forward cage supports.
All information was taken off of the following site http://members.tripod.com/~MY5LTRLXCPE/NHRArules.html
[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: Bad Habit Bird ]</p>
