HELP!!! 1st pass plug reading n/a
12 Second Club
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 303
Likes: 2
From: Buffalo NY
Gee, maybe I should call hptuners and tell them their entire business model is ****.....that this whole time we could have just read plugs and gotten by. Just change fuel pressure or injectors to get the AFR we want right? That's so old school it's ridiculous. People tune (properly) with wideband O2 sensors. Ask me what I think is more accurate, youre plug reading of my NGK sensor? This entire discussion is retarded.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
Likes: 89
From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Its just to verify things are right. And you don't always know a sensor is faulty. You could have a wideband reading 1 number off and not know it. But if the wideband shows you are running perfect and the plug shows lean or rich, then you have reason to check the wideband sensor. Without checking the plug you would never know it wasn't reading right unless its just totally stops working or goes to an extreme. Too any people rely or trust that the ecm system at 100% correct.
This should be a reminder to everyone who NOT to ask tuning advise from.
This discussion has absolutely nothing to do with HPTuners' business model. Also, you mention just dialing in to a specific AFR.
How the hell do you know what AFR nets you the best power? Let me guess, all N/A combo's should be 13.0:1, and all boosted combo's should be 11.5:1. This is a rhetorical question obviously, so no need to actually reply.
Also, you implied that "your NGK sensor is more accurate than reading plugs". You obviously don't have any tuning experience as regardless of sensor type, they all start deteriorating the minute they are put into service. So yes, a person who knows what to look for can read plugs and time slips together and tell you about the tuneup far more accurate then your "Jesus wideband".
This discussion is far from retarded. Your comments are the only retarded thing here.
This discussion has absolutely nothing to do with HPTuners' business model. Also, you mention just dialing in to a specific AFR.
How the hell do you know what AFR nets you the best power? Let me guess, all N/A combo's should be 13.0:1, and all boosted combo's should be 11.5:1. This is a rhetorical question obviously, so no need to actually reply.
Also, you implied that "your NGK sensor is more accurate than reading plugs". You obviously don't have any tuning experience as regardless of sensor type, they all start deteriorating the minute they are put into service. So yes, a person who knows what to look for can read plugs and time slips together and tell you about the tuneup far more accurate then your "Jesus wideband".
This discussion is far from retarded. Your comments are the only retarded thing here.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Guys the main reason i was reading my plugs was because i previously had my engine remote tuned and for my heads/cam combo and recently had my bottom end rebuilt with forged pistons and rods. the compression and c.i are supposed to be the same as before besides the fact that it went from 10.7:1 to 10.74:1. i just wanted to make sure my tune was still ok for my setup. I do agree though that reading plugs is the most accurate way to tell what the engine is doing especially when you have tuners out here that make mistakes. Just don't want to spend $500-$600 on having it re-tuned if i don't have too
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Good thinking. Plug reading and track track time are THE best tuning aid. We can all shoot an AFR in the computer for the motor to run at but there is more to tuning than that. ( at least a car you are building for performance) who wants to dump a ton of $$$ into a motor just to shoot for a certain AFR and call it a day without testing? Plug reading is becoming a lost art but there is So much that can be gained with the ability to read plugs and have time at the track
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
Likes: 89
From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
And no, in all my thousands of wot blasts and my shoe box full of timeslips, ive never once "read the plugs" on my NA engine. And im not gonna start. And let me be clear, if this was a carb engine my opinion would be completely different. But for a fuel injected engine of todays era that was properly tuned with a wideband and tuning software, I just dont see it nearly as necessary.
Last edited by 01ssreda4; Jul 6, 2016 at 07:31 AM.
In my opinion the timing is more important than fuel with an engine that isnt a full on race setup. It still doesnt hurt to check it to be safe, but the ecm isnt going to tell you if the timing is at its best or not. The plug will.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
Likes: 89
From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
True. It seems there is a general consensus among tuners that cetain combos like certain amounts of timing. The good thing about these motors is they arent new, everything has been done, so it gives you lots of reference material.
11 Second Club
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,707
Likes: 13
From: New Orleans, LA
Emmm, I'd rather have a Dyno tell me how much timing my motor likes.. But to each their own...
Wow..I can't believe that this many people think that reading a plug isn't the best way to tune. Hptuners isn't going to tell you what's going on in each cylinder efi or card nitrous or forced I don't care. Just for the ***** of it why don't those people just try a plug reading I mean it can't hurt anything right!
Wow..I can't believe that this many people think that reading a plug isn't the best way to tune. Hptuners isn't going to tell you what's going on in each cylinder efi or card nitrous or forced I don't care. Just for the ***** of it why don't those people just try a plug reading I mean it can't hurt anything right!
If you are tuning anything without pulling the plugs and cutting them you are not getting the whole picture I do t care if it's Efi, carb, mechanical injection, doesn't matter.
Wide band's, egt's are all tools, and tell you useful information. But only one thing can tell you what's actually happening in the chamber, the plug. There's a ton of factors that can effect the reading of any sensor, but the plug will always tell the story of what's going on in the cylinders.
If you are tuning without making wot runs and Shri g the car off ASAP, and cutting the plugs to see the fuel ring, you are not getting everything out of your setup.
An a/f gauge might tell you a target you may think will make the engine as happy as it can be......but every engine needs its own tuneup, you're potentially missing a lot of you're just trusting a gauge and a supposedly perfect #
Wide band's, egt's are all tools, and tell you useful information. But only one thing can tell you what's actually happening in the chamber, the plug. There's a ton of factors that can effect the reading of any sensor, but the plug will always tell the story of what's going on in the cylinders.
If you are tuning without making wot runs and Shri g the car off ASAP, and cutting the plugs to see the fuel ring, you are not getting everything out of your setup.
An a/f gauge might tell you a target you may think will make the engine as happy as it can be......but every engine needs its own tuneup, you're potentially missing a lot of you're just trusting a gauge and a supposedly perfect #