HELP!!! 1st pass plug reading n/a
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 88
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HELP!!! 1st pass plug reading n/a Less than 2 minutes of idle time. I Shut it off right after the pass. What do you guy's think of these plugs??? This is an ls3 in a 5th gen camaro btw. M6
Mods:
Ported heads
Aftermarket cam
LT headers
Cold air intake
Forged pistons
Forged rods
Remote tune
These are also ngk tr6 plugs
Mods:
Ported heads
Aftermarket cam
LT headers
Cold air intake
Forged pistons
Forged rods
Remote tune
These are also ngk tr6 plugs
Last edited by BooneSS13; Jul 1, 2016 at 10:39 PM.
11 Second Club
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,707
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From: New Orleans, LA
The plugs look brand new.. I don't see an issue with them.. Maybe put 1,000 miles on them and check again if they are a concern. They should look light brown (almost like a brown paper bag) in color after a few miles if your engine is running right..
The OP has the correct process. New plugs, make a pass, shut the car off with the minimal amount of idle time to get it off the track and read the plug.
OP,
You're gonna have to do a plug chop for us to give advise on fueling. The bottom of the porcelain where it meets the metal threaded part of the plug is where you will get a ring of residue to help you judge the correct fueling, however the only way to see it and post picture is if you cut the threaded part of the plug off. That said, we can't see anything on that plug to give you an idea of where the fueling is.
The picture aren't too clear but using the ground strap to read the timing the pics might suggest that there is still room to add some timing. For an N/A deal, you will probably see best trap speeds with the cad burn in the bend of the ground strap.
Also, a side shot of the threaded part of the plug can give you an idea if the heat range of the plug is correct. You'd like to see some signs of head on the threads, but no more than 1 or two threads down is where I like to see them. Being an N/A car and depending on compression the TR6 is likely the correct plug, but something in a 5 heat range might work a little better. Testing testing testing while reading plugs and evaluating the time slip (trap speeds) is what will ultimately get you where you need to be.
You're on the right track......but need a little more info like I said for others to give you feed back.
After re-reading my response to your post it comes off a little harsh. I don't mean to bash on you man, so don't take it too personal. It is just wrong saying that you need to put miles on a set of plugs to read them for WOT performance. Also, your comment about the plug needing to be brown is very incorrect. On a perfect tuneup, the majority of the porcelain should look white (brand new) except for a faint fuel ring at the vert bottom of the plug.
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Verdad Gallardo 11 Second Club
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,707
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From: New Orleans, LA
After re-reading my response to your post it comes off a little harsh. I don't mean to bash on you man, so don't take it too personal. It is just wrong saying that you need to put miles on a set of plugs to read them for WOT performance. Also, your comment about the plug needing to be brown is very incorrect. On a perfect tuneup, the majority of the porcelain should look white (brand new) except for a faint fuel ring at the vert bottom of the plug.
Last edited by NewOrleansLT1; Jul 2, 2016 at 04:56 PM.
Listen to Blown06.
If your racing the engine and want it to be right, then yes, you make a pass, shut it off and check the plugs. As for telling you what its doing, I myself would need much better, more clear pictures. Its going to need to be very clear. Its really hard to do this with pictures other than just giving a close estimate. I actually have a tool from CSR that is a magnifying glass with a flash light built in so I can see down into the plug as well. We even cut the threads off so we can see down the plug better when needed.
If your racing the engine and want it to be right, then yes, you make a pass, shut it off and check the plugs. As for telling you what its doing, I myself would need much better, more clear pictures. Its going to need to be very clear. Its really hard to do this with pictures other than just giving a close estimate. I actually have a tool from CSR that is a magnifying glass with a flash light built in so I can see down into the plug as well. We even cut the threads off so we can see down the plug better when needed.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
Likes: 89
From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Da **** are we "reading plugs" on a fuel injected NA car for? Was it not tuned for all your mods? If it was tuned correctly then you shouldn't have to (ever) read the plugs.
Lol. Not everyone gets someone to tune it. Also if its tuned at the track then you go off of real world data like mph, et and plug readings. Theres no dyno to tell you that its making more power than before. Also sensors can be reading wrong. So checking plugs is just a safety thing.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Fair enough, but a heads, cam, bolt on car wont run worth a crap (if at all) on a stock tune, which means it had to of been tuned. I guess its just hard for me to understand the need for it......
Once again.......bad info getting posted.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Gee, maybe I should call hptuners and tell them their entire business model is ****.....that this whole time we could have just read plugs and gotten by. Just change fuel pressure or injectors to get the AFR we want right? That's so old school it's ridiculous. People tune (properly) with wideband O2 sensors. Ask me what I think is more accurate, youre plug reading of my NGK sensor? This entire discussion is retarded.
Thats where you are wrong. Theres more to a tune than AFR. And I know that you know that. Sure you can make adjustments with a program and make it run different. And yes you are making these adjustments based on what sensors are telling the system. But sensors can be off. Spark plug readings are a sure thing. If you ask guys (real racers) at the track that run HP tuners, Megasquirt, EFI ect if they check thier plugs, Ill bet 90% will say they do. We ran a racepack and datalogger system that read everything known to man on our top sportsman Nitrous car, but we still checked plugs to verify the data.
I dont understand your issue with checking them. It doesnt hurt anything to do so. Your ecm isnt going to tell you that a certain cylinder is getting a little oil on the plug.
I dont understand your issue with checking them. It doesnt hurt anything to do so. Your ecm isnt going to tell you that a certain cylinder is getting a little oil on the plug.
11 Second Club
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,707
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From: New Orleans, LA
Thats where you are wrong. Theres more to a tune than AFR. And I know that you know that. Sure you can make adjustments with a program and make it run different. And yes you are making these adjustments based on what sensors are telling the system. But sensors can be off. Spark plug readings are a sure thing. If you ask guys (real racers) at the track that run HP tuners, Megasquirt, EFI ect if they check thier plugs, Ill bet 90% will say they do. We ran a racepack and datalogger system that read everything known to man on our top sportsman Nitrous car, but we still checked plugs to verify the data.
I dont understand your issue with checking them. It doesnt hurt anything to do so. Your ecm isnt going to tell you that a certain cylinder is getting a little oil on the plug.
I dont understand your issue with checking them. It doesnt hurt anything to do so. Your ecm isnt going to tell you that a certain cylinder is getting a little oil on the plug.
Last edited by NewOrleansLT1; Jul 4, 2016 at 04:06 PM.
Its just to verify things are right. And you don't always know a sensor is faulty. You could have a wideband reading 1 number off and not know it. But if the wideband shows you are running perfect and the plug shows lean or rich, then you have reason to check the wideband sensor. Without checking the plug you would never know it wasn't reading right unless its just totally stops working or goes to an extreme. Too any people rely or trust that the ecm system at 100% correct.
Gee, maybe I should call hptuners and tell them their entire business model is ****.....that this whole time we could have just read plugs and gotten by. Just change fuel pressure or injectors to get the AFR we want right? That's so old school it's ridiculous. People tune (properly) with wideband O2 sensors. Ask me what I think is more accurate, youre plug reading of my NGK sensor? This entire discussion is retarded.
This discussion has absolutely nothing to do with HPTuners' business model. Also, you mention just dialing in to a specific AFR.
How the hell do you know what AFR nets you the best power? Let me guess, all N/A combo's should be 13.0:1, and all boosted combo's should be 11.5:1. This is a rhetorical question obviously, so no need to actually reply.
Also, you implied that "your NGK sensor is more accurate than reading plugs". You obviously don't have any tuning experience as regardless of sensor type, they all start deteriorating the minute they are put into service. So yes, a person who knows what to look for can read plugs and time slips together and tell you about the tuneup far more accurate then your "Jesus wideband".
This discussion is far from retarded. Your comments are the only retarded thing here.
I can somewhat agree that you can check plugs to see what's going on but it isn't the "say all, be all".. But on a street legal n/a car if the motor is healthy and happy who cares if the plugs are white or brown as longs as they aren't black. Some motors like to run a little lean or rich.. . Also if you have a faulty sensor you should replace that sensor just saying..