quickWS6

What is the best to do for an agressive daily driver type car? Should I spend money towards losing weight or gaining power? I am kinda leaning toward the weight loss since it will help everything: handling, braking, acceleration, etc. It will also help keep my tranny and rearend alive longer. So, how much weight can I lose by going to lightweight carpet and chrom moly K-member and A-arms? Anything else that can be bought? TIA

BIGBOS

Well you can go out and then you can go ALL out like the colonel... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

If you want to keep the car looking good on the inside you can get new seats, take out the sound deading stuff under the carpet, rear seats, spare/jack...etc, etc, etc...bumper supports...there are tons of things you can do...

PaiN

answer simple grasshoppa!!!

lose weight AND gain power <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

quickWS6

Thanks guys. I want to lose weight and not be able to see it. With chrom moly k-member and A-arms, I will lose about 50#s off the nose. That equals about .05 in E.T.? How do these mods sound for a street car?

1. Remove sound deadening and go to lightweight carpet. Replace stock sound deadening with spray-on truck bed-liner.
2. Chrom moly K-member, A-Arms
3. ASP crank pulley
4. Remove back seats and seat belts
5. Remove rear floormats and hatch cover.
6. Go to lightweight Corbeau seats up front.
7. Remove AIR system and windshield washer fluid tank.
8. Go to headers and smaller convertor.
9. Lose weight myself.

This should equal out to be a nice gain, and will help everything out, not just straight-line acceleration. Can anybody add to that or give me some opinions? Thanks.

kent

I agree with the losing weight approach, however; why not spend a little money and get some tenth's that way such as a cam. Why not get a lot of tenth's at once, and run faster times with <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> most of the car together. A cam may cost $1,500 dollars installed. I mean, this is just an example--of course do all the free mods, and the usually bolt-ons. Just my two cents. I have an A4 with h/c job and usually bolt-ons. Increase HP by 70 and ET dropped by 7 tenth's as an example with best time of 11.72 only weight reduction with spare wheel and jack, and skinnies with light wheels on front. I also have a carbon fiber driveshaft. I liken the lightened the rotational weight approach for a faster car. Anyway, it is kinda nice to run a fast time with car intact. Also, one day I will take some items out of my car when I reached a peak at not running new times. Hopes this helps. Kent.

AlienDroid

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by quickWS6:
<strong>Thanks guys. I want to lose weight and not be able to see it. With chrom moly k-member and A-arms, I will lose about 50#s off the nose. That equals about .05 in E.T.? How do these mods sound for a street car?

1. Remove sound deadening and go to lightweight carpet. Replace stock sound deadening with spray-on truck bed-liner.
2. Chrom moly K-member, A-Arms
3. ASP crank pulley
4. Remove back seats and seat belts
5. Remove rear floormats and hatch cover.
6. Go to lightweight Corbeau seats up front.
7. Remove AIR system and windshield washer fluid tank.
8. Go to headers and smaller convertor.
9. Lose weight myself.

This should equal out to be a nice gain, and will help everything out, not just straight-line acceleration. Can anybody add to that or give me some opinions? Thanks.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That list looks good. Here are some more ideas.
Light weight drive shaft.
Very Light weight rims and tires
Light weight battery, dyna-batt is a good example
Composite hood

Weight reduction in the front of the car is very important. I'd spend money to get that weight down. After changing out everything you can in the front and removing everything you can for free from the car, I think you end up with more weight reduction from the front.

Rather then put more stress on your engine it'll have less stress on it in normal driving. You will see a major improvement in handling and response.

I've been doing both at the same time. Weight reduction and power increase.

at 330rwhp / 3300lbs you have 1rwhp/10lbs power to weight ratio. That means ever 10lbs you take out of the car will do what adding 1 hp will do to the power to weight ratio. Anyone that says weight reduction is not worth it has no clue. My friend's motorcyle with 80 hp will consistently beat my 330 hp z28 and my power curve delivers much more power in the low rpm range comparitivly then his. His power to weight ratio is just over mine. 80hp/700lbs is more then 1hp per 10lbs, that's why he wins from 0-80mph. When it comes to high speed it's all about who can plow through the thick air, that is where high hp has the advantage.

CHRISPY

You also want a lightweight catback. Saves over 30 pounds <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> ASP pullies save weight as does AIR, EGR and Cruise removal (another 20+ pounds) Lots you can take out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Cheers,
Chris

AlienDroid

I've heard of light weight brakes. Mainly for the front.
Light weight steering wheel.
Remove passenger side airbag.

Another advantage to weight reduction is that it increases in effectivness as you add hp or reduce weight.

at 330rwhp/3300lbs every 10 lbs I take from the car effectivly adds 1rwhp. If I were to double my hp with a blower or nitrous to 660rwhp/3300lbs
every 10 lbs I take off is effectivly going to add 2rwhp.

Let's say I've taken 400lbs out of the car already

660rwhp/2900lbs = 0.2276 rwhp/lb, which means if I take 10lbs out of the car it would be like adding 2.276 rwhp. That shows how the more weight you remove the more effective each pound you remove after that is.

kent

AlienDroid, that was a good post in the explanation of weight reduction. I agree, the more weight off the front of the car, better off you are. I wish I had all the funds available to make all of the rotational mass lighter. I bought some new wheels (convo pros)on the rear to reduce rotational weight. The new wheels will have mickey thompson's slicks hoping for better traction and better 60'time. Anyway the data and info was great. <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Corvette]" title="" src="graemlins/corvette.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Corvette]" title="" src="graemlins/corvette.gif" />

quickWS6

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I plan on doing them all, sometime or another. Right now, I am planning on doing the k-member, a-arm, and lightweight carpet swap. I'll remove the rear seats when I get the carpet that doesn't show through to the metal in the back. So, 50# from suspension, and probably #40 from the carpet and !seats? Doesn't sound too bad. I am a big fan of removing unnecessary weight and making the most out of stock cars. Thanks again.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

Depends on how nice you want your car to be. Some of the guys on this board have cars gutted so badly, they look like "theft recovery", LOL. I'd much rather add power and keep my car nice, but hey, I'm pushing 40 so my priorities might be different than some of the youngsters on the board. Because I drive a heavy pig ragtop, I've got a badass heads/cam motor with a 125 shot always waiting. I'd rather jet-up than strip down.

quickWS6

I don't want anything to appear different from stock to the average person, except for maybe removing the rear seats. But I like that idea more for the fact that I can't haul people around, and I have a good excuse not to since there are only two seats. Plus, more room for luggage. After I get done with it, hopefully losing about 300 lbs is my plan, the interior will look even cleaner/better(lighter seats and no backseat), it will ride more comfortably and smoothly (light weight suspension components), and it will be quieter (putting in aftermarket sound deadener and lightweight carpet). Thanks for the comments guys. I think that I've decided to go for the weight mods first, and then concentrate on power....but headers and a convertor could be considered weight mods too.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

You could spend thousands and tons of time removing 300#s, or spend hundreds and add 25-30hp. Hmmm.

quickWS6

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong>You could spend thousands and tons of time removing 300#s, or spend hundreds and add 25-30hp. Hmmm.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thats true. It will cost more to take off 300 lbs. than it would to add 30 hp. But, my car won't look gutted, and will appear to look very stock (minus backseat). Whereas, I would need headers or a cam to add 30 hp (N/A) right now, and you could hear that. I am a big fan of a wild-sounding cam and headers, but I like suprising people even more (even if it is only by a little bit). Plus, the car will be more responsive, and handling and braking will be improved.

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

You are fooling yourself in to thinking you can remove weight with no real consequences. I think you need a reality check.

Everything is a trade off! For example the kmember/aarms will save 40# but then your car makes funny clunking sounds when turning, not to mention its expensive and a hassle to install. Aftermarket seats are uncomfortable and look out of place. No back seats looks ghetto. Bumper removal takes away some safety and makes a minor fendor bendor a frame twisting wreck of your car. Lighter exhaust makes the car loud and rattles. Light weight carpet never fits right, looks poor, and makes the car loud and annoying inside. You'll have to add 30-40# of dynamatt to quiet the car back down, then whats the point? No air bags take away safety, and "custom" steering wheels stick out like a sore thumb. The dynabatt will die if you leave your lights on for 30 seconds with the engine off. Lift off hoods are a major pain to deal with, and look out of place. Light weight wheels/tires are expensive and can cost handling.

You can easily remove around 100# from these cars with no "major" trade off, but beyond that you are loosing significant drivability.

If you really want a quick stealthy car, do a mild heads/cam setup with stock exhaust manifolds. You'll pick up ~60rwhp that way and no one will know you are not stock.

<small>[ April 17, 2002, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: Terry Burger ]</small>

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

I have to say I would take all into consideration.. I personally agree with Terry and Patrick G.. There are sacrifices. I am going to give you an example of what the difference could be.. You do all that weight reduction and spend upwards of $3k.. Someone comes along and do a cam and headers and maybe spend $1500. Thats taking into consideration they do their own install.. Take out the back seats, jack, seatbelts, spare, CD player, and 2 gallons in the tank.. We all know how often we use the back seat.. Same time of day and same track. Which car would be quicker? I think you know the answer to that..

quickWS6

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong>Everything is a trade off! For example the kmember/aarms will save 40# but then your car makes funny clunking sounds when turning, not to mention its expensive and a hassle to install. Aftermarket seats are uncomfortable and look out of place. No back seats looks ghetto. Bumper removal takes away some safety and makes a minor fendor bendor a frame twisting wreck of your car. Lighter exhaust makes the car loud and rattles. Light weight carpet never fits right, looks poor, and makes the car loud and annoying inside. You'll have to add 30-40# of dynamatt to quiet the car back down, then whats the point? No air bags take away safety, and "custom" steering wheels stick out like a sore thumb. The dynabatt will die if you leave your lights on for 30 seconds with the engine off. Lift off hoods are a major pain to deal with, and look out of place. Light weight wheels/tires are expensive and can cost handling.

If you really want a quick stealthy car, do a mild heads/cam setup with stock exhaust manifolds. You'll pick up ~60rwhp that way and no one will know you are not stock.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do you have the k-member/a-arms? I have heard of people easily fixing the clunking sounds by applying more lubrication to the joints.
I am not talking about race seats. I am talking about lighter manual seats that are a higher quality and provide better support. Recaro, Corbeau, etc.
No back seat looks ghetto to you. My opinion is different, however.
I will not remove the bumper supports or air bags. No new wheel or hood for me, either. My 300# is an estimate, not an exact count. Could be slightly less, just depends.
Exhaust rattles if poorly installed. I will have a muffler, not just straight pipes.
LS1Speed has told me otherwise about the carpet. I will just have to wait and see.
Spray-on sound deadener works well and is very light.
I don't leave my lights on anyway. But, like you said, some sacrifices have to be made.
How can wheels cost handling? I am talking about stock size Fikse wheels. Not drag wheels. They should help handling.
I know what I can or can't live with. Thanks for your opinions and suggestion. However, I feel that these will help the car in all areas, not just straight-line acceleration. You can call me an ignorant fool if you want to.

I appreciate all responses, and would like even more. Thanks again everyone.

<small>[ April 17, 2002, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: quickWS6 ]</small>

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

It's not a question of what you can live with. Your premise was that you want something you can "surprise people" with. That a camshaft or headers would be easily noticed. Your solution of gutting the car does not support your criteria. You can not "stealthfully" remove a significant amount of weight. A stealthy heads/cam setup would better match your criteria.

Now if you're looking to run quicker and don't care what the car looks like or drives like, weight removal is a good way to go.

quickWS6

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VINCE:
<strong>I have to say I would take all into consideration.. I personally agree with Terry and Patrick G.. There are sacrifices. I am going to give you an example of what the difference could be.. You do all that weight reduction and spend upwards of $3k.. Someone comes along and do a cam and headers and maybe spend $1500. Thats taking into consideration they do their own install.. Take out the back seats, jack, seatbelts, spare, CD player, and 2 gallons in the tank.. We all know how often we use the back seat.. Same time of day and same track. Which car would be quicker? I think you know the answer to that..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is true also. But does that mean that I should have bought a stripper Camaro or Formula instead of my Trans Am because they are lighter? I want an all-around package. And losing weight is the best way to go about that. I might spend all that money to get to the weight that a base Z28 is at already, but she will still have the creature comforts and be a Trans Am, the model I like best. Taking off weight will also help the drivetrain out by taking off some load. Thats not to say that I won't mix power mods in with the weight mods. Like I've said before, headers, pulley, and a smaller convertor are great mods for weight savings. I'm just not sure if I will do them all right now. I could change my mind over time if I am disappointed with the results, but every little bit helps, and I don't think that I am ready to go into the motor anyway.

quickWS6

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong>It's not a question of what you can live with. Your premise was that you want something you can "surprise people" with. That a camshaft or headers would be easily noticed. Your solution of gutting the car does not support your criteria. You can not "stealthfully" remove a significant amount of weight. A stealthy heads/cam setup would better match your criteria.

Now if you're looking to run quicker and don't care what the car looks like or drives like, weight removal is a good way to go.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Okay, ASSUMING that the weight mods do not change the way the car handles or sounds, or adds vibration or resonance, etc., why would removing the weight make the car drive worse? I have heard that less weight will make the car ride worse on bad streets, but would my Bilstein shocks not help take care of that? And I'm not ready to break into my 2002 motor, yet. What would you consider to be worthwhile weight mods for a street car? The main ones I was looking at for right now were the rear seats (I just like the look) and AIR system (no needfor it), chrom moly k-member, a-arms, lightweight battery, removing the jack and spare for driving around town, slightly lighter manual seats, and changing to the lightweight carpet (you think I should just spend the time removing the sound deadening from my carpet and add my own new sound deadener?).