</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Joe Kizzire:
..... Nobody made them go buy W's.
[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nobody made SAM put in a multi-thousand dollar transmission yet the classes still allow them to run against traditional powertrains. You can compete against someone with an unlimited budget, unlimited shop time and personal support crew yet W tires are outlawed. Where is the logic in that? LOL

Jave (aka Mikey's Lap Dog) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

 

OK Mikey what do you think about letting 4 link and ladder bar cars run in the top two classes????? That would let limited street and hot street cars run.

Java how much do you think a race built top of the line powerglide or turbo 350 cost???? I'll save you the time of looking it up... around $3500.00 and that don't include the converter.
A roadrace Jerico cost $2600.00. Java for an educated man you sure don't take the time to know what you are talking about.

 

Why not just limit the top classes by pounds per cubic inch? Have a power adder class and N/A
The people could actually tune their cars and get an edge if they were good enough. You know "Like real competition"
That way the smaller cubic inch will be where they can compete.

Tire size should not be an issue in the top classes. Iam sure that the "w" tire could be used by the big boys if they wanted too....
Why build a $26000 motor and then try to run it in a restricted class? Make a class for all out cars!!!!!!! Then have your other classes....
To me that is very simply...

<small>[ October 25, 2002, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: TimeWarp ]</small>

 

Just let me know when this race is and I will be there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hell, I don't care about the stinking rules I just want to race. <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />

 

You restarted this discussion in this thread so don't take offense if I reply. okay? I sure would like to see a response from you that doesn't end in a personal insult. Grow up and keep it civil.

I don't know how many people are running a "top of the line" T350 but when I looked into it a total conversion fro 6-speed to T350 was a lot less than $3500. Also, as an FYI I have done my homework and you are incorrect ... drag racing 5-speed clutch type is $5,000 plus, 5-speed clutchless is $6,500, 4-speed clutch type is $3,000 and 4-speed clutchless is $3,500 plus much more $$$ with options.

Regardless, it still doesn't make sense to outlaw a tire size when everything else goes.

Java (aka "educated man")

<small>[ October 25, 2002, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: java ]</small>

 

Just thought I would put in for bringing a race up a little closer to us Yank's.
To all of you Southern Boys; don't worry I'm sure your cars will still run respectable numbers up north.
BTW the chicks up here have teeth too; in case you make a weekend of it.

 

I like the fact the we are not running W's. The mustangers look at our event as a joke already. If we start running W's to go a full second slower than them (in most cases), then we leave our selves open to even more ridicule. I think that as the speed of the cars warrant us to go with a larger tire, then we do so at that time. Right this second there is one 8 second LS1 powered 4th gen F body , and thats just not enough. Look at the big picture people, lets build classes that we can be proud of. Joe, I say leave this an F body only event. The mustang guys WILL show us up, if you allow them to run. Even if you level the playing feild with some loppsided rules, we are still gonna look bad. These FF weekenders have the jump on us, give us a chance to catch up before you invite them to the party.
Just my $0.02

BTW, we all know that Joe is a smacka head, so every body just calm down. <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> Joe you want that 9 million in a brief case or will you accept a hand written check? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ October 29, 2002, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: KECHME ]</small>

 

I think that we have more to worry about. Tires are not an issue. What difference does a tire make? Make tires unlimited. There are more things to making this a nice event besides bitching about tire size.

BTW, the mustangs can laugh all they want, but unless things go right for our shootouts, I dont see anyone pumping $$$ into it anytime soon.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by G2 LS1:
<strong>I think that we have more to worry about. Tires are not an issue. What difference does a tire make? Make tires unlimited. There are more things to making this a nice event besides bitching about tire size.

BTW, the mustangs can laugh all they want, but unless things go right for our shootouts, I dont see anyone pumping $$$ into it anytime soon.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Louis, tire size is a big issue. The true 10.5 racers run a whole lot faster than any of our LS1 powered cars have gone as of yet. We need to catch up to the accepted E.T. for this tire size before we move on to bigger tires. A W slick is MUCH bigger than the same size tire in a non W, and now with the 10.5 S we can get the stiffer side wall in a smaller tire. On the money issue, I see where you are coming from. Maybe we should let the stangers kick our butts for a while, nothing like competition to get the wheels of invention rolling. We might also possibly get some of the stang boys to jump ship and come to the dark side to take advantage of rules that are in our favor a bit. I truely want this shoot out series to make it, I'll be there no matter what the rules are or where the race is held. I will pay my entry fee even if my car is not ready to run, just to support the organization. Come on guys lets get behind this deal and make it happen.

<small>[ October 29, 2002, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: KECHME ]</small>

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Joe Kizzire:
<strong>A roadrace Jerico cost $2600.00. Java for an educated man you sure don't take the time to know what you are talking about.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why would you put a Road Race trans into a drag race application <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

MUSTANGS BEAT WHOS ***????????????????????????????
How can you guys say this????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> You show me some Mustangs with factory produced cylinder heads and blocks that are running in the eights and nines, I dont know of any. Many of my friends race NMRA and FFW let them stick with that. Lets have a race series that is dedicated to us. I rather kick mustang *** in the road for money. Also you dont need a "W" to go fast <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> . Enough with mustang crap. They have way more technology available for the 5.0 and they should. The EFI 5.0 has been around since I think 1986. LT-1 1992 and LS-1 1997, so I think we need to realize this. Before we change the format lets have a good turnout at the THUNDERSHOOTOUT and go from there. The Mustang guys laugh at us because there are two many F**KING bench racers with Camaros and Firebirds, not at our cars but they do laugh when everyone talks about a race, everyone talks **** about how fast their car is <img border="0" alt="[bullshit]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_bs.gif" /> and no one shows up. I cant wait to this weekend and look foward to the next. Sorry for the language and see everyone Friday night in LA.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Stefan D.:
<strong>MUSTANGS BEAT WHOS ***????????????????????????????
How can you guys say this????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> You show me some Mustangs with factory produced cylinder heads and blocks that are running in the eights and nines, I dont know of any. Many of my friends race NMRA and FFW let them stick with that. Lets have a race series that is dedicated to us. I rather kick mustang *** in the road for money. Also you dont need a "W" to go fast <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> . Enough with mustang crap. They have way more technology available for the 5.0 and they should. The EFI 5.0 has been around since I think 1986. LT-1 1992 and LS-1 1997, so I think we need to realize this. Before we change the format lets have a good turnout at the THUNDERSHOOTOUT and go from there. The Mustang guys laugh at us because there are two many F**KING bench racers with Camaros and Firebirds, not at our cars but they do laugh when everyone talks about a race, everyone talks **** about how fast their car is <img border="0" alt="[bullshit]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_bs.gif" /> and no one shows up. I cant wait to this weekend and look foward to the next. Sorry for the language and see everyone Friday night in LA.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Stephan, I hope you don't think that we have the upper hand when it comes to a race series. The fun ford weekends and all of the other mustang races are what we need to emulate to be succesfull. I don't like the fact that we are not up to par, but the truth hurts. If you could enter your car at the next fun ford in the class that it would fit into, you would get out run in all but the lowliest of classes. Sure they have after market heads and intakes galore, but they are still faster. We need to build a series in which we can race and build some real intrest in our cars. Hopefully at that point the after market will start to produce parts aimed above your normal street oriented bolt on accesories. Next thing you know, sponsors start backing cars and people start showing up at shops requesting more extravagant racing set ups. Thats what it's all about, a serious heads up racing series that puts peoples butts in the grand stands, and it all starts here.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by KECHME:
<strong>Stephan, I hope you don't think that we have the upper hand when it comes to a race series. The fun ford weekends and all of the other mustang races are what we need to emulate to be succesfull. I don't like the fact that we are not up to par, but the truth hurts. If you could enter your car at the next fun ford in the class that it would fit into, you would get out run in all but the lowliest of classes. Sure they have after market heads and intakes galore, but they are still faster. We need to build a series in which we can race and build some real intrest in our cars. Hopefully at that point the after market will start to produce parts aimed above your normal street oriented bolt on accesories. Next thing you know, sponsors start backing cars and people start showing up at shops requesting more extravagant racing set ups. Thats what it's all about, a serious heads up racing series that puts peoples butts in the grand stands, and it all starts here.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That was so beautiful, it brought tears to my eyes. <img border="0" alt="[whiner]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" /> I agree 100%.

 

Agree totally!

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">MUSTANGS BEAT WHOS ***????????????????????????????
How can you guys say this????? You show me some Mustangs with factory produced cylinder heads and blocks that are running in the eights and nines, I dont know of any. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok. I'll show you. Lets keep it at the 4.6 level, and leave off the production 5.4's. Sound alright?

7's: JR Granatelli. 4.6L block and heads. Turbocharged.

8's: Joe Stewart. 4.6L block and heads. Supercharged.

9's: Mike Tymenski. Iron 4.6 2V block with 4V heads. Did I mention it as a N/A 2001 Cobra?

9's again: Lidio Icabella. Internally stock motor with a Vortech in a fox-body Coupe.

Back to the issue at hand...

IMHO...a lot more support really needs to be given to stuff such as the NFRA (if it gets going again), the Thunder Shootout, and whatever else you folks can come up with. And its going to have to come from more than just the internet. You need cash, big-time sponsors (cash), real advertising (cash), and a dedicated staff to promote the event/series (cash and time and committment).

I think an F-body vs Mustang shootout would be really neat. In fact, I talked with Tums (MMRA) about this quite a bit at his race back in August. It may or may not be what is needed to give organized F-body drag racing a kick in the butt, but I can tell you this - the more racers and spectators and vendors and magazines you can get out to support a race, the better off you'll be.

I would also suggest moving a bit farther north than Southern La, Southern Tx, etc. That will be necessary, IMHO, in order to go big time.

 

New to the board,

I just posted this question on another thread.

My question is WHY do you limit yourself to stock suspension?
Is there some kind of unwritten rule that outlaws 4-link and ladder bars with f-bodies.

1000+ HP engines, Glides and stock suspension? Go figure…

Can someone help out here?

Do the FF guys limit themselves to ¾ of a race car?

Cann

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do the FF guys limit themselves to ¾ of a race car?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, this could be argued. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Super Street Outlaw is rather restrictive in the suspension department. You essentially have Pro 5.0 engines (well in excess of 1000 HP) in a "street style" chassis. Makes for some interesting racing I guess.

 

I am not sure but I don't think the Thunder Shootout was intended to be the spring board to national prominance for the F-body ... the F-body has been around for a loooong time and yet there is nothing in the form of a national racing series for F-bodies.

I think these events are for the average Joe to go out with his $5,000 $25,000 in mods and race agaionst the guys he shoots the **** with all year on the internet. Therefore, if that is indeed the intent, then if Madman can bring his engine setup and SAM can bring their support staff, high dollar tranny & engine combo to run against a modified LS1 stock block and stock heads with traditionla powertrains, then W tires should certainly be within the realm of accepted modifications.

IMO, if we want to expand to a national platform then it will take more than one or two shops performing R&D and setting the pace. Until prices come down on HPO parts for the LS1, who wants to build a race car from a $25,000 vehicle when I can buy a Mustang body and build it up for the price of my new F-body?

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bob Cosby:
<strong>
I would also suggest moving a bit farther north than Southern La, Southern Tx, etc. That will be necessary, IMHO, in order to go big time.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by java:
<strong>I am not sure but I don't think the Thunder Shootout was intended to be the spring board to national prominance for the F-body ... the F-body has been around for a loooong time and yet there is nothing in the form of a national racing series for F-bodies.

I think these events are for the average Joe to go out with his $5,000 $25,000 in mods and race agaionst the guys he shoots the **** with all year on the internet. Therefore, if that is indeed the intent, then if Madman can bring his engine setup and SAM can bring their support staff, high dollar tranny & engine combo to run against a modified LS1 stock block and stock heads with traditionla powertrains, then W tires should certainly be within the realm of accepted modifications.

IMO, if we want to expand to a national platform then it will take more than one or two shops performing R&D and setting the pace. Until prices come down on HPO parts for the LS1, who wants to build a race car from a $25,000 vehicle when I can buy a Mustang body and build it up for the price of my new F-body?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is your take of the situation. I guess I have visions of grandure. You have to start some where, from these little one day events come magazine articles and from those magazine articles come ........ etc, etc, etc. If you want to run W's then for gods sake run em. I could care less, it's not a personal thing. I just feel the class would get a whole lot more respect if we stay on a true 10.5 .