Bob Cosby

Beech Bend is an NHRA track. However, having held several events there, and having been to several events there, I can tell you that running 11's won't be an issue. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Any exhaust is fine with me, unless someone has a big heartache.

I think a short belt should be allowed, though I don't think you should be allowed to run no belt at all. FWIW...I can't bypass my power steering, as the same pump runs my power brakes. Too bad for me. Oh well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

As far as I'm concerned, the best pass of the day is the ET you use - be it in qualifying or eliminations in a different class. However, that's an issue that can certainly be debated.

"Photo friendly" is a good idea. Essentially, 2 seats, carpet, and all the plastic that is supposed to be there. A/C, P/S, and bumper supports optional. If we're going to do that, then I say no weight minimum. My only real issue with some of you guys is that some of your cars look like shells (no offense). If we can get around that, then I'm game for removed P/S, A/C, bumpers, etc.

I'd like to ask that Rageman, 01-Z, Larry01Z, Y2K Blackbird, Lane, and Jason to give a thumbs up or thumbs down on the above proposal. If you give a thumbs down, please provide an alternative. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Anybody else that hasn't rogered up, or would like to participate, please speak up! John WILWAXU, where the hell are ya! V6Bird? Birdman? Others? Come on guys/gals....lets hear it!

<img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />

<small>[ December 19, 2002, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: Bob Cosby ]</small>

V6 Bird

iTrader: (15)

I dont mind the interior panels and carpet deal. But i do mind that my back two panels are not going in the car simply because i dont want to cut them up for the cage. it goes through the speaker grills so i just left em out.

As far as everything else goes im all game for a 3300 weight minimum. I think that should be a must!

RAGEman

iTrader: (4)

Bob, I'm sorry but I have to agree with a weight minimum SOMEWHERE. It'll keep the field level. So, you think we can run low-mid 11's w/o them giving us any problems about roll bars/cages?

I think we should make an exception for the far rear speaker panels.

Jim

Sounds like a great idea.I think you should set a weight.My only problem is not being able to mod my car for 5 months.But I think this will be one heck of an event.
My opinion is to keep P/S and A/C but accept a short belt.I also like to run open cutout.
thanks for getting something like this started. Jim (2002Z)11.56

RUQWIKR

iTrader: (11)

Bob, a question and a comment. As I was reading, I was getting all excited, maybe enough to stick a stock engine back in for it since I have heads & cam (stock shortblock). Then, I see, bumper supports in req'd, etc. If you can have tubular k-members, why not allow stuff that is "hidden" like removing the bumper supports? Bunches of the northern folks would have removed the A/C and possibly the heater box, too, if it's not a daily driver, especially.

If you don't have a big purse, don't get too restrictive. Unless you are going to teardown, P&G, etc., who could tell what's been done to the heads, shortblock, etc. Make it fairly open and let's beat on our cars and have fun.

Now the question, what about the additional classes including heads & cam NA, stock displacement, but with anything goes for weight reduction if it looks "darn" stock exterior & interior-wise, say, except for the normal (wheels, tires, rollbar, race seats). NO minimum weight. Stock or aftermarket trans.

If something like that doesn't interest you, can some of us pay to just come out to play. You'd get a lot of the Midwest and Southern folks to meet up in Bowling Green. I'd love to get next to some of the guys that I only "know" through these boards.

I go to Bowling Green each year for the Buick Nationals. Lots of fun, the authorities aren't too bad at night, and lots of good places to stay, eat, and hang out. Take care. Dave

<small>[ December 19, 2002, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: RUQWIKR ]</small>

Skelton

As far as weight minimums go, keep in mind that my hard top, base model Formula weighed 3340 stock. Its not hard at all running below 3200 raceweight. I have never stripped my interior and still managed a 3180 raceweight with me going 190lbs.The car still has a stock appearance by all means. You can easily get a stang around 3060 or so if you try hard enough. Lets go with interior rules, a decent raceweight and lets not worry about ac,ps,tubular suspension mods,etc. My vote goes for 3200-3250 for ls1, no limit for stang due to less cubes.Engine must be N/A with absolutely no internal mods(stock replacement parts ok). Stock appearing interior minus back seat(dual race buckets allowed),carpet of some sort so it doesn't look like a tin can.All interior panels in tact unless mandatory removal for roll bar. Stock type suspension as mentioned in first post. Overdrive trans mandatory. Exhaust through at least 1 muffler or cutouts if voted in. Any tire, axle, clutch or converter of choice. Fastest ET wins shootout, this will keep R/T from being a factor. What do ya think????

GrannySShifting

iTrader: (10)

Bob has your motor ever been apart and gone through or is it still sealed from Dearborn?

GrannySShifting

iTrader: (10)

Bob has your motor ever been apart and gone through or is it still sealed from Dearborn?

CamaroCain

iTrader: (1)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Stock appearing interior minus back seat(dual race buckets allowed),carpet of some sort so it doesn't look like a tin can.All interior panels in tact unless mandatory removal for roll bar. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">agree
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I think a short belt should be allowed, though I don't think you should be allowed to run no belt at all. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">agree
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think tires should be unlimited. I think folks should be allowed to step up to the best possible traction. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">agree
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> not many 10 bolt people are going to want to run slicks on the back. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> That is all my car runs at the track. I don't even own a set of DR's
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Transmission: Agree except for maybe one small thing. What about twin-disk street clutches (i.e. McLeod)? Not that I have one or would ever get one, but I was just wondering. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't know much about manuals, but if any converter no matter the stall is allowed then any clutch should be allowed...right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Any exhaust allowed, but it must run through the mufflers. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Does this include Bullet Mufflers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Skelton

I'm all for it but 2 things would have to change.
#1, I threw my bumper supports in the dumpster. They aren't keeping me from passing a state safety inspection or failing tech at any track.
#2, Why do you have to have P/S and A/C? IMHO what do they matter when your talking drag racing bolt on cars?
We have never considered a car ineligable for the bolt on list if it were sans bumper supports and A/C-Pwr Steering. Just my .02
Lets race.

JASON

You can't go Lane! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Skelton

Oh, one more thing. No weight minimums. Just meet the interior rules. If you want the fastest, lets race em <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />

Bob Cosby

Slow down Y2K Blackbird...its ALL up for debate. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

As for your points, perhaps most would agree that A/C, P/S, and bumper supports shouldn't matter? If so, then ok. Another alternative....perhaps we can make it an either/or type of thing? For example, if you don't have A/C or P/S or bumper supports or whatever, then you have to weigh xxxx lbs? Something like that?

For example, if you don't wish to meet the requirements above (A/C, P/S, whatever), the car must weigh 3200 lbs, or 3300 lbs, or whatever.

Whadda ya think?

May I add one thing? This is pointed at noone in particular. It would help if nobody would say "this MUST change or I'm not going". Let's discuss, debate, and figure out. There's no way on earth to make everybody perfectly happy, but I bet we can make it reasonable and acceptable to all but those that are unwilling to budge even a smidgeon.

JS12

like Lane said i am sure mike, lane and i would be game for sure if they want to make the trip.

<small>[ December 20, 2002, 12:54 AM: Message edited by: JS12 ]</small>

Lane

iTrader: (1)

I think for competition sake, you need a minimum weight requirement. Otherwise, it just becomes a strip down contest.

Take out weight as a factor, and you're left with ability of the driver and car, etc. - which is what we want to contest right? Not stripping ability. Don't get me wrong, that's fine when it comes to records, but in a race like this, it's better to level the field. Just my .02.

Skelton

Bob, sorry if I came off seeming harsh.Was not my intention at all. I didn't say "must" or I wont come. You have a good idea and I'm saying lets do it. I personally don't have the parts anymore to run a/c, p/s and bumper supports. I can support a weight minimum for sure and 3200-3300 is in a good range. Lets make it happen. No one has yet and alot of us have wanted this. I planned on changing the car alot this winter but will keep it internally stock for something like this. Thanks.

Lane

iTrader: (1)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JASON:
<strong>You can't go Lane! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">hahaha

RAGEman

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by CamaroCain:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Transmission: Agree except for maybe one small thing. What about twin-disk street clutches (i.e. McLeod)? Not that I have one or would ever get one, but I was just wondering. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't know much about manuals, but if any converter no matter the stall is allowed then any clutch should be allowed...right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, I don't think any clutch should be allowed. However, I do think any resonably streetable clutch should be allowed, including McLeod twin discs. If you'll notice in Bob's original post:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bob Cosby:
<strong>Any street-type, single-disc, non-adjustable clutch acceptable.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He specified single-disc clutches, which is why I addressed him about the clutch issue. And he agreed that the McLeod twin was acceptable, but just hasn't gotten around to editing the rules yet. Hopefully that clears things up for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Bob Cosby

GrannySShifting...my motor is 100% as delivered from Ford. It has had a valve cover and upper intake off once at an NMRA race to verify Factory Stock legality (P&G, cam lift check, intake inspection).

Ok. I'm going to repost what I think is the best revision of the rules below. I'd like to note a couple of things first...

This all started as 3 or 4 of us M6/M5 guys getting together to duke it out in BG. Each of us was very near the "top of the heap" in what we like to do - internally-stock internet ET Racing (maybe NHRA will start a new class? LOL). There is no purse, no trophy, no nothing...except bragging rights and a warm feeling in your pants. That's about it.

I, personally, have no interest in doing any other classes. Besides, there are SEVERAL actual race classes that are part of the event itself, as this is really just a sideshow during the North vs South Shootout.

The quickest cars usually weigh the least. There is no way around that. I don't wish to be harsh, but if you want to go quick, you need to get the weight out. The only qualifier to that is that I think the interior's should more-or-less stay in the car, with allowances for rollbars. To that end, and in the interest of not worrying about stationing someone at the scales, I think it is best to let the fastest be the fastest.

With that said...please disregard all the rules stuff in the previous posts, and lets start with the set below. I'm going with the K.I.S.S. principle, so here's what I have...we can comment/debate on these...

What: An ET shootout between the quickest of the 'internally-stock' M6 LS1 F-body's, the quickest of the 'internally-stock' A4 LS1 F-body's, and the quickest of the 'internally-stock' DOHC 4.6 Cobra's.

When: May 31st, 2003

Where: Bowling Green, KY during the "North vs South 2003 Shootout"

Why: For the hell of it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

How: Invite only. Post here if you wish to come. Winner gets bragging rights and a hearty pat on the back.

Rules: Some of this will need to be discussed/debated. The basic rules are simple....naturally-aspirated, bolt-ons only.

Engine: Must be N/A, no internal engine modifications allowed - no exceptions. No overbores, no rebuilds, no re-rings, no valve jobs, no aftermarket springs, no aftermarket push-rods, no aftermarket lifters, no nothing. External 'bolt-ons' only. For the purpose of this race, a 'bolt-on' modification is defined as anything that does not touch engine oil.

Exhaust: No restrictions. Open exhaust or cutouts ok.

Transmission: OD transmission required - and OD must be functional. T56/T45/T5/T3550 all acceptable. Any street-type clutch acceptable. For A4's, any torque converter allowed, shift kits allowed.

Drivetrain: Any rear end and any gear allowed. Any driveshaft allowed.

Tires: No restrictions.

Chassis: Stock-type chassis required. Common bolt-ons allowed, including aftermarket control arms, torque arms, panhards, shocks/struts, subframe connectors, rollbars, etc. Tubular front end pieces allowed. Front coil-overs allowed. Rear coil-overs prohibited.
Rear-mounted battery ok.

Exterior: Stock appearing. May use lightweight hood, but other pieces must be as-delivered, including stock safety glass.

Interior: Full interior required. No exposed sheet metal. All plastic panels must be in place. Interior must be carpeted. Complete dash and center console must be in place. Any front seats allowed. Back seat can be removed, but area must be carpeted. The operative idea is that the car be "photo ready".

Exceptions: If you have a rollbar installed, the rear plastic interior panels may be left out.

Accessories: Must have functional lights, turn signals, horn, etc. P/S, A/C, heater not required.

Weight: No minimum weight.

Race Format: This is an ET race. He/she with the best ET of the day (during the North/South Shootout time trials, qualifying, eliminations, whatever), wins.

That's it. I'm standing by to be beat about the head the and shoulders...

Skelton

Bob, those look good to me. Lets make it happen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />