On whether or not your running a stock block or not? Is it a LS1 block, or any LS1 derivative?

Shoudl the 6.0L block be in the same league as a motown block?

What about the few C5r guys we got out there, should they be running against soem DRCE motors? Longs they have a GM part number? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

http://www.fbodycentral.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6798

 

You guys afraid of sayin your top dogs dont represent LS1s no more?

 

who cares.


If Stephen goes 8.8 NA with his C5R block and heads does it matter. He had to overcome the same kind of obsticles to get the number he was looking for. Its like that HomeRun record back in the day. 61 vs 61*.

If Joe or someone takes a SBC bowtie or Dart Little M and makes the LT1 stuff work on it...he deserves to complete with other LT1 guys.

 

and why get in a tuff over it. Wade uses a factory block, to this point Col. has, Doublerly and Judson run factory blocks, George does, Roman does, SW does, Tony does, Mikey does, etc.

The only ones with C5R stuff are:
pedaltothemetal (i think thats his name) - MMS 427 with LS1 heads and a 224 cam; doesnt really even race
Colonel - C5R motor...not running....
MiC5ey - 700hp on an engine dyno? Not in car...not taking any cheezy internet records from you or anyone else. In fact none of the above three are...
WHO'S YO DADDY? - LPE C5R motor; doesnt post, who cares.

you think of any more.

and not just LS1's. Madman isnt hiding that his motor isnt an LT1, same with baxter...they just want to go fast.

 

your question is is a 6.0 liter a ls1
answer i think in gm eyes its a gen 3 engine design
so is ls1,ls6,c5r,5.3 truck,6.0 truck
drce or motown is not lt1 is not
the reason they are letting people race the races this year is because we need cars at these events and they are our f-body brothers
our shop car is our 427 ls1 motor with ls1 heads
if we wanted to we could have easily built
a SB2 and gone alot faster but we wanted to use a gen 3 foundation
colonals car even though it is full blown race motor is a ls1 gen 3

 

The 6.0L block isnt a LS1. LS1 is the option code for the 5.7 liter in fbody's. Teh 6.0L block is a LQ4 option code. "least my opion.

As to who cares?
Do you know why Mustang guys have all these national events and sponsors and racing "classes"? Its because they care! The set up a set of rules and boundaries, based on production parts to keep the people with the biggest wallet from stealin gthe show (mostly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

If you dont do that, then its just another "Super Stock" class with the only limitation being a mustang body. Not many people interested in a superstock class wiht just Mustangs

The racin world of Fbodies shouldnt be stuck as nothign more than a bunch of guys jockying for braggin rights on the internet with no real right to claim such "records" Who P&Gs these car? They way to set up a race would be to set a hp/weight ratio minimum. Not this stupid 3200 lb minimum BS. That only appeals to your high dollar racers, who can throw together a solid roller 420+. Pretty self serving restrictions if you ask me. What about the guys that can only take **** OUT of their car, not keep throwing parts at it. Ok, so run it by the rules of Superstock or something where as long as you had a carpeted presentable interior, your goog to go.

 

I think any Ls1 block that came in a production mass produced vehicle should qualify. ie: 5.3 iron, 6L iron, 5.7 alum etc etc. boring, resleeving allowed.

C5R is a race block and in a different league IMO. (But still VERY cool hehe)

Chris

 

i said who cares because we have no racing league with classes. in the little events that we do have...most non-factory blocks are prohibited if thought of as an at vantage. it would be rediculous to disqualify a 6.0-based 414 that weighs 70lbs more than a aluminum 434 with a better bore/rod/stroke ratio. C5R is different I guess...but again...you make the rules they have to follow them, you dont make the rules and you have what we have now.

i think we are saying the same thing..except on the 6.0 issue. might as well outlaw sleeved blocks too. its not like LT1 that need major work to go to 4.06x4.00.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong> I think any Ls1 block that came in a production mass produced vehicle should qualify. ie: 5.3 iron, 6L iron, 5.7 alum etc etc. boring, resleeving allowed.

C5R is a race block and in a different league IMO. (But still VERY cool hehe)

Chris </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Amen brother! Couldn't have said it better myself.

I also agree with Ryan on the "who cares" point. Until there is a sanctioning body with a series of races/distinct classes, it doesn't matter. Any production Gen III block should be considered a factory piece. A C5R (in my eyes) would be considered an aftermarket race piece (it was never installed into any production vehicle).

 

I like ALL generation III engines. All of the parts are interchangable, which is a bonus. The C5R is a race block, but do blocks really make hp? No. They just increase durability. Now, those C5R heads on the other hand..... monsters!

-Tony

 

The C5-R motor is a race block. If you are going to run the c5-r block then you just moved up in the classes to run the guys (like me) with Dart or Bowtie blocks. The 5.3, 5.7 and 6.0 should be considered factory blocks. On the heads issues if you allow C5R heads then the LT1 guys should be allowed AFR etc.

 

70 lbs is nothing to overcome when you have a block that will keep the heads on where they are suppose to be, and not lifted off... turn up the boost ,pop in bigger pills,or cram them cylinders with mega compression ...The iron block weight is not a henderence at all in my opinion...when you talk fastest ls1 ,,your talking fastest that you can go with what gm gave ya...not fastest you can go with a truck block..but hey you can always add that to ,along with the other unpoliced categories on the et board... not flaming just stating opinion...Lt1 has had discrepancy's for many years...when you mention the names of george baxter,brian jeffries they bowed out because 1. anything other engine or block would not fly per the f-body community 2. no big money payouts for running f-body events 3. they felt maybe they reached a point where anything more would be rolling the dice as far as longevity and they staked their claim in the f-body world..
Just so happens lt1 were iron and when you think george B. ran 9.0 with a lil 383 ci lt1 in a heavy weight car I might add...that right there should be the testament that iron block weight has no affect on ET but does however affect how much hp it will hold... Lt1 has their heels (reverse cooling,limited ci. capability) ,ls1 has theirs (block integrity,limited aftermarket)so switching to a iron block is a vantage is it not... the older guys thats been in the game along time knows what I'm saying and these issues has been pushed even before the ls1 was available in the Lt1 venue, different engine same discussions... Bad thing is this is just one of many threads that questions could be asked..bolt-on,stock suspension and many others comes to mind as well...so do we just go on relying totally on the honor system, or do you come together as a group and define each category of ET internet king...I know its no easy task, but until then their is no designated rules.And the rules I have seen are are not even checked ..so there again no rules...just state what you run and claim lt1 or ls1,stock suspended etc. and basically its accepted... kinda hard for guys wanting to play by the rules, and not even know what the rules are dont you think.....

 

I think you are overstating the advantages of the iron block vs a good alum block.

There has been 600PLUS RWHP worth of nitrous fed through a resleeved alum block without head problems etc.

It is all in the resleeving process and tuning...

As for heads I agree with Madman as well 5.3, 5.7L, LS6, 6L are all factory.

C5R is a race head like the C5R is a race block.

Chris

<small>[ February 17, 2003, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>

 

If any plans to run competitive in say PRO then they might want to consider an aftermarket block swap sure.

There really have not be enough F-Body/ Y-Body racing events until the last couple of years.

8 second class will be fun this year. You would not believe the names of some of the folks running nitrous this year. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

sleeves dont do any good when the block inserts for the head bolts pull out.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Joe Overton:
<strong> sleeves dont do any good when the block inserts for the head bolts pull out.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />

 

who lifting heads with aluminum blocks and not iron ones?

Here's my deal. If you can use a 4-bolt GM production block that didnt come in YOUR car (like the early vette or LT4)...I can use a GM production block that didnt come in MY car. C5R is not production. NOTHING about the 6.0 is advantagious except a tenth of an inch overbore. But then your into the legality of cubic inch variations. If someone actually made aftermarket stuff for LSx motors, we could outlaw that. I just dont think anyone will overcome the 23' vs 15' head thing with trying to outlaw blocks.

like i said...if someone was arguing it because of some precedent...like Stephen running like a 7.80 NA..LOL...then who cares. there are no race series in full swing, there are no PRO classes that really look at the LS1 that i know of.

 

Ryan this is brought up as a discussion not a debate,just for clarification purposes only. But as such the lt4 did come in the firehawk (f-body)... limited production, but production f-body none the less..

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Joe Overton:
<strong> Ryan this is brought up as a discussion not a debate,just for clarification purposes only. But as such the lt4 did come in the firehawk (f-body)... limited production, but production f-body none the less.. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That wasn't a factory production vehicle. Those LT4 'hawks started life as LT1's, and were transformed by SLP (under contract through GM). So where do you draw the line there??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

 

lol @ george...i know its a discussion.

I think everyone will have a different view here.

look at Baxter and Madman. GB went 9.0 and Brian went 9.1? Both with "LT1" blocks George had a factory 4-bolt block...where did it come from? Was it numbers-matching from a 97SS? I think Brian had an LT1 block converted to splayed 4-bolt mains. So whats the difference here? Are they the same? Is brian's more factory than George's?

And where do we classify resleeved blocks? They have the advantage, not Iron blocks.

Also, I dont think that at the level we are at, the iron block is giving anyone anything but maybe 10cid. I don't think we've hit the stress limit just yet with the block. Everyone thought they had with the LT1, but GB was pushing like 1200 crank HP? yeah... Now, I also believe that any headlifting has been caused by inadequate tuning or inefficent setups. Harlan pushes as much or more than anyone...on a factory 2000 aluminum block...with stock gaskets and heads and headbolts, etc. detonation kills motors. but you know that.

what im getting at is given the perfect tune and all the power in the world...iron is better...but we dont have that. and like I said, the resleeved motors have more advantage than an Iron block.