TheJesus

i didn't say that BHP cannot make up for weight difference, I said it's not the only factor to consider. I never also said you cant make it faster by increasing power... do you people actually read what it there or just assume things and make the rest up? I never said just make it lighter instead... more of an as well as...
power to weight is not the only thing to consider, i never said this either. surely you realise that simply having more power will not make a car faster than another car. power, torque, ratio's, aero dynamics, christ, one car running without the aircon or one having an oil change all makes a difference.
lighweight panels... sure you have these... for example carbon fibre hood? no one makes these for your car? lightweight alloy panels etc...? pretty common things really... and they aint custom as they have been manufactured for years over here.

i dont think the euro cars are there to compete, they are better built and more expensive for a reason.

KB99WS6

iTrader: (6)

I think you are the one not reading what you type.

Your first quote there seems to say I can't help a weight disadvantage by adding power.

Basically, I asked about how much power you need to make up for 100lb deficit (OBVIOUSLY *GENERALLY SPEAKING WITH OTHER VARIABLES CONSTANT) and you have come in here and basically said that its not worth it to modify ("tune" in your terms) my car simply b/c it's over 3000lbs. This is an idiotic argument. You than say its best if I just lighten the car and put on lightweight panels?? This is moronic too, b/c someone finding a shop to custom make fibverglass panels and repaint the whole car would cost a fortune. Surely many times more than simply adding Heads/cam or even a supercharger or turbo. Than you go on making it seem like Japanese and some euro cars are so much better b/c they are half the size?? Your arguments are nonsense.

Flaminchiten67

STI off manu. web-site
Curb Weight (pounds) (w/Manual Transmission) 3298 (300 hp)

Lancer Evo VIII off manu. web-site
Curb Weight (lbs.) [with Sunroof]: 3263 [3321] (285 hp)

Civic SI off manu. web-site
Curb Weight (lbs.) 2782 (160 hp)

Acura RSX Type-S
Manual: 2840 lbs (1288 kg) (210 hp)

Corvette C-6
Curb weight, lbs./kg 3179/1442 (400 hp, est 500 in zo6)

Viper
Base Curb Weight - with Manual Transmission [lb] 3380 (500 hp)

Not all Japanese cars are "light" Corvette is lighter than the STI and EVO the viper is right on pace. The civic and rsx are lighter but they are giving up 250 - 300 hp. Not to mention the torque of the vette and viper are far better.

bad2000ss

iTrader: (6)

The problem I have with your arguement is you make it sound like its EASY to remove weight from a car. There is nothing easy about it. Removing serious weight from a car requires sacrificing many "creature comforts" that most people don't want to part with, i.e. Air Conditioning, Heating, Power Streeting, etc.

By the time you get done buying your lightweight carbon fiber hood, lightweight panels and any other body piece for a car, you will end up spending 1000's of dollars. Why would I want to spend $400-$600 on a carbon fiber hood, an thousands more on fiberglass/carbon fiber body panels to reduce the weight of the car 200lbs and pick up 2 tenths? You could easily spend that money on a Heads and Camshaft package and pick up 70-80rwhp and pick up 8 tenths.

Like stated before...

100lbs = 1 tenth in the 1/4 mile (approx)
10rwhp = 1 tenth in the 1/4 mile (approx)

It is MUCH easier to add 10rwhp to a car than pull 100lbs out of the car, especially when you have reached the point at which there is no FREE weight to be pulled out. When you need to spend money to reduce weight, it is much more cost effective to spend the money to add horsepower.

$2000 for 200lbs = 2 tenths
$2000 for 75rwhp = 7-8 tenths

P.S. We haven't even started talking about suspension. $2000 worth in suspension upgrades will help a car ET much better than $2000 worth in weight reduction.

Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

back what up??!!

cause you made the statement that's its a waste of time to modify a car over 3,000 lbs. I think that is why you were seeded #1 in the olympic retarded 100 meter dash.

John_D.

iTrader: (2)

By the way, the front fenders and doors are composite material from the factory, on the 4th gen f-bodies... So that part is done already.

A fiberglass hood and lightweight hatch make sense. But they are expensive. And then you have to take it somewhere and get it painted. I like to do all my own work, so that's one reason I haven't done that yet, because I don't (can't?) paint...

I'm happy with my 3400 lb car for now. And I do have a turbo kit on the way for it.


(at the same time, I have to admit I'm buying an older AWD bmw this weekend... an '89 325ix 4-door)

KB99WS6

iTrader: (6)

Thats what I'd really love to have...a turbo. But just way too much $$ for me @ $4k+

unit213

My 3,600lb car does quite nicely. Maybe I can't corner as fast as you, but I have this thing us Americans like to call TORQUE...and tons of it. Your go karts are Jon.

STL2SLO

iTrader: (1)

To "TheJesus" - save yourself alot of arguing, leave and go join a ricer site.....And for the record why buy a lightweight hood and fenders when a corvette is already all fiberglass & aluminum from the factory? You are not making any sense and obviously do not know what you are talking about.....

mike c.

iTrader: (1)

damn,i need to loose weight! i mean i only run 10's in a 3,700lbs car with me in it.
777-muscle weighs more then rice good one.

99ssleeper

iTrader: (98)

On a side note...I like the "well it makes 100hp per Liter" line that many ricers seem to live by. Thats all fine and dandy, but it's still 1.9 Liters. Ooh. Maybe if it was a 6 Liter I would be impressed...

Ok, that's all...just wanted to add that irrelevant blurb. I'm sure we are all dumber having read it...and I award me no points.

2MuchRiceMakesMeSick

Exactly what I was thinking. Make that two

KB99WS6

iTrader: (6)

HAHAHA, it looks like a Moderator is having fun with Thejesus' avatar! Look above

SMOKIN01TA

iTrader: (10)

so i guess since i break 100 in under 7sec with a slightly moded engine you still consider us slow. and fyi i can add 10hp for basically the same price that i can take off another 100lbs.

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

I don't think you have a good handle on how good of an engine the LS1 is. It does weigh less than the 4g63 (or very close... it's hard to find accurate stats), did you know that? Say what you will about a lot of jap and euro cars weighing less (that is certainly true, and undeniably light weight is a great thing for performance), but ENGINES do not fall along those lines. The LS2 is an even better example of a great power/weight ratio (it weighs LESS than the LS1). Don't let displacement fool you. Displacement does NOT equal weight.

jm8881

iTrader: (4)

TheJesus - I'm not sure why you decided to come on to this site and start downtalking but you should have been more prepared with facts.

First, weight can be overcome with hp. It's a proven fact. Take a car or truck, anyone. Add performance parts to it which up the hp and it goes faster. Pretty simple.

Second, You tout that japanese cars make the same power with a smaller motor. And then go on to quote the Evo's specs. What you fail to say is that it makes that power at like 7-9k rpm. These big heavy lightweight all aluminum pig american v8's make power at a much lower useable rpm. Also, they have to force feed air into the 2.0l evo motor to make that power.

Third, the front fenders, front and rear bumpers, and I think doors, are all lightweight composite (correct word?) material. To make anything else light weight you would be custom fabing rear quarters, to save a couple pounds. Not really worth it. The hood is the only ideal thing to replace.

Lastly, you said the Evo costs 46,999 pounds, that's $62,647.61 us. My car was $16,000 in 03. Brand new it was probably $23,000. Apples and oranges.

johnws6

As a mechanical engineering student, your ideas of what you consider power to weight ratio are right and wrong. Sure more power and less weight makes for a quicker car, in terms of ratio. The flaw of your idea, is that taking a smaller lighter car will be faster, not true. If you want to be able to handle more power, like in terms of what a V-8 motor can do, the weight of the car will go up, you need structural support. The fastest japanese or asian car doesn't compare to any higher displacement motor, sorry just physics. Even with turbocharging or supercharging, or "NOS", the larger the motor, the more air and gas you can combine the more power your going to make. The reason most f-body cars and other higher output cars are heavier is not only for price but manufactures know these cars are going to be modified for higher power from history alone. They don't want to have any lawsuites or any other legal responsibilities from people being killed modifying their cars.

For example if you take your skylines or supras or whatever else you would throw out there as being "advanced technology" you would see their not as advanced as you think. With those small motors, they need to rev to high rpm's to make power, with little torque. They also require turbocharging or another form of forced induction, and in their stock state, their not as fast as a stock f-body, even with forced induction. Because of the higher heat produced by these engines and the higher rpms, they tend to wear out much quicker and have more problems in the near future.

This isn't to say you can't make cars with small motors faster, its simply saying your never going to be able to make as much power as a larger motor would be able to. If you do reply, don't reply with this evo or whatever else like that which is turbocharged or supercharged or has nos injection. Show a 2.0L car, (not a tube car) a stock frame, unmodified for extra strength, that actually has some speed to it, i bet you have a difficult time. Good luck!