How does pinion angle affect traction and launch?
Originally Posted by MADMAN
Excatly JNorris. You have proved my point. You are trying to set "driveline angle" not "pinion angle.
Pinion angle is part of driveline alignment.
The goal of having your pinion angle set is to have your driveline in line. Correct?
John
No. Pinion angle is exactly what it says. Getting your driveline in line is something different.
Originally Posted by MADMAN
Height plays a big part of the chassis setup. Height is what changes instant center. The length is not as important if you can move the height of the front mount.
Up hits the tire hard and then tends to unload the tire farther out. Lower tends to plant the tire and keep it planted down track.
Originally Posted by MADMAN
Up hits the tire hard and then tends to unload the tire farther out. Lower tends to plant the tire and keep it planted down track.
I just got home. I will be there in the morning at 5.00am if you are up. I have 10 sets ready to ship.
Originally Posted by MADMAN
Up hits the tire hard and then tends to unload the tire farther out. Lower tends to plant the tire and keep it planted down track.
Originally Posted by MADMAN
I just got home. I will be there in the morning at 5.00am if you are up. I have 10 sets ready to ship.
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Originally Posted by SMOKIN01TA
so if im unloading almost instantly and my front is at the top of the adjustment on the bmr relocation k-member and my pinion is at say -2, you are saying i should bring it down a lil in the front which would give me say -4 or so then readjust the bottom rear adjustment together more to move the rear back up to get my -2 back without moving the torque arm. hence i still have the same pinion angle but now the front of the torque arm is much lower? am i starting to get this?
Hey, this is the number I got off ur website (281.290.8899), is that still the right number, cuz on the front page it says it's changed, just wanna make sure I call the right one.
Okay. So pinion angle is set in relation to what? There are only a few choices…the ground or the driveshaft.
I understand why it would be in relation of the drive shaft but I do not know why it would be in relation to the ground unless you are assuming that the engine/transmission and drive shaft are at 0 degrees in relation to the ground.
John
I understand why it would be in relation of the drive shaft but I do not know why it would be in relation to the ground unless you are assuming that the engine/transmission and drive shaft are at 0 degrees in relation to the ground.
John
Originally Posted by MADMAN
You are right 4link tuning versus ladder bar versus t/a suspensions all tune differently. The point is that pinion angle is exactly what it says "PINION ANGLE". It has no bearing on the crackshaft centerline or the tailshaft or the driveshaft.
On this same car the crank shaft is lower than the pinion in the car. The driveshaft runs uphill to the pinion. If we put 2 degrees in with your method or the driveshaft method the pinion would be way down.
Originally Posted by ATVracr
So the lower the LCA's are the more the car would want to wheelie?
I need some relocation brkts
(tryin to rip the bumper off) 
I need some relocation brkts
(tryin to rip the bumper off)
Originally Posted by -Joseph-
Carl, thats what I had planned next time I get to a decent track, racing at 5000DA on our local tracks suck. Its not a big issue currently being cam-only, but when I put the S/R engine back in is when I need it to work its best and/or if we put the bottle on it someday. Like I said, havn't had much time to make adjustments other than QA1 settings.
What about the location of the front torque arm mount?
What about the location of the front torque arm mount?
Does torque arm length come into play as much as we would think it does? Lifting in the stock type location -vs- lifting more towards the rear such as the BMR/Spohn designs. 
Originally Posted by MADMAN
Height plays a big part of the chassis setup. Height is what changes instant center. The length is not as important if you can move the height of the front mount.
Originally Posted by Loudmouth LS1
So what's better, higher or lower? Cuz I have a little area to play with where I mount my torque arm on my th-400 crossmember, right now I kind of have it in the middle of it, so I could go either up or down.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 503
Likes: 1
From: Texas
Wow, I leave for a few days and...Look what happened to this thread!
Just goes to show that people are learning the importance of a well tuned suspension!
LOL...MADMAN looks I got back a little to late, seems that you covered the subject pretty well in this thread!..."move er up 'n' pitch er back"... Umm, played with some wish-bone "T"s and some old school "shortys" have we?..lol 
Our vernacular may differ but we think alot alike.
later,
maggie
Just goes to show that people are learning the importance of a well tuned suspension!
Originally Posted by MADMAN
OK Maggie this is getting fun.What Would moving the front of the t/a up do???
Our vernacular may differ but we think alot alike. later,
maggie
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 503
Likes: 1
From: Texas
[QUOTE=critter]This isn't rocket science, guys.
UH...Well, actually it is. The exact same laws of motion apply...Velosity, acceleration, weight, mass, distance and time. Without Newton's Laws we could not begin to understand the dynamics of the forces influencing the actions of the vehicle of our sport.
Happy tunning,
Maggie
UH...Well, actually it is. The exact same laws of motion apply...Velosity, acceleration, weight, mass, distance and time. Without Newton's Laws we could not begin to understand the dynamics of the forces influencing the actions of the vehicle of our sport.
Happy tunning,
Maggie
[QUOTE=Maggie] I'll give you that. What I should have said was it isn't black magic - it is simple physics (or rocket science if you prefer) 
I think I menioned a lot of misinformation on this subject. On a lark, I googled for "pinion angle". Here are the first 10 hits. I didn't look for quality sources or filter this in anyway - just the first 10 hits.
http://www.carcraft.com/howto/91758/
http://www.2quicknovas.com/happypinions.html
http://buickperformance.com/Pinion.htm
http://www.4x4wire.com/tech/pinionangle/
http://www.iedls.com/ptsetup.html
http://www.drivetrain.com/driveline_angle_problem.html
http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
http://www.quickperformance.com/PinionAngle.html
http://www.maliburacing.com/ssm_instructions.html
http://www.baselinesuspensions.com/info/pinionangle.htm
More than half of them get it wrong. People who should know, like Jerry Bickel, Inland, and Driveline Performance mostly get it right, but, surprisingly, Wolfe doesn't.
Originally Posted by critter
This isn't rocket science, guys.
UH...Well, actually it is. The exact same laws of motion apply...Velosity, acceleration, weight, mass, distance and time. Without Newton's Laws we could not begin to understand the dynamics of the forces influencing the actions of the vehicle of our sport.
Happy tunning,
Maggie
UH...Well, actually it is. The exact same laws of motion apply...Velosity, acceleration, weight, mass, distance and time. Without Newton's Laws we could not begin to understand the dynamics of the forces influencing the actions of the vehicle of our sport.
Happy tunning,
Maggie
I think I menioned a lot of misinformation on this subject. On a lark, I googled for "pinion angle". Here are the first 10 hits. I didn't look for quality sources or filter this in anyway - just the first 10 hits.
http://www.carcraft.com/howto/91758/
http://www.2quicknovas.com/happypinions.html
http://buickperformance.com/Pinion.htm
http://www.4x4wire.com/tech/pinionangle/
http://www.iedls.com/ptsetup.html
http://www.drivetrain.com/driveline_angle_problem.html
http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
http://www.quickperformance.com/PinionAngle.html
http://www.maliburacing.com/ssm_instructions.html
http://www.baselinesuspensions.com/info/pinionangle.htm
More than half of them get it wrong. People who should know, like Jerry Bickel, Inland, and Driveline Performance mostly get it right, but, surprisingly, Wolfe doesn't.
So since I have a Yank TA mount off the tranny and the TA is in the center holes..am I leaving some 60' on the table? I also have my LCA's set on the lowest hole and the adj. TA set at -2. It seems to hit really hard and sometimes spins just after it hooks. Is it unloading the rear because the way I have it setup? Here is a pic of it launching. It seems to do just the opposite of most people I see launching. Ya'll have any suggestions?
Last edited by BAIN; Apr 20, 2005 at 06:34 PM.