What is the correct order to set up suspension?
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From: victoria canada.
What is the correct order to set up suspension? I've done lots of searching and reading of posts. Many of them by MADMAN.
I think I have a pretty good grip on things but I would like some help on which order to start doing adjustments.
Here's what I think I should do. Point me in the right direction if this is wrong.
Get the car sitting level (but where do I measure this? Frame, door sill?) Also I'm confused on this level thingy because if you have tall tires in the rear, won't it sit downhill anyway??? Do you buy taller tires than 26's for the front so I don't have to crank the **** out of my Hals?
Next, adjust rear LCA's 2* uphill from rear to front of car, adjust diff side to side with panhard to centre diff. Use LCA's to get diff straight in the car, then last set-up pinion angle -2 to -3*.
Get an alignment for drag racing as per MADMANS suggestions.
Adjust shocks as per his suggestions also.
If I am missing anything here (which I'm sure I am) can you help me and others sort it out.
Thanks.
I think I have a pretty good grip on things but I would like some help on which order to start doing adjustments.
Here's what I think I should do. Point me in the right direction if this is wrong.
Get the car sitting level (but where do I measure this? Frame, door sill?) Also I'm confused on this level thingy because if you have tall tires in the rear, won't it sit downhill anyway??? Do you buy taller tires than 26's for the front so I don't have to crank the **** out of my Hals?
Next, adjust rear LCA's 2* uphill from rear to front of car, adjust diff side to side with panhard to centre diff. Use LCA's to get diff straight in the car, then last set-up pinion angle -2 to -3*.
Get an alignment for drag racing as per MADMANS suggestions.
Adjust shocks as per his suggestions also.
If I am missing anything here (which I'm sure I am) can you help me and others sort it out.
Thanks.
The idea is to be on level ground, not try to level the car. There are benefits to front vs. rear ride height, but I wouldn't focus on that yet. You want the car on level ground 'cause that's what the track will be like.
If you have adjustable LCAs you can start with squaring the rear end by measuring from the front of the door jamb to the center of the rim/axle. Simple as making both of the equal.
You do want a uphill rise in the LCAs but your only real adjustment is going be raising/lowering them in relocation brackets, so I don't know how 2* could be exact.
Not sure what you mean by get differential straight with the LCAs unless you are refering to squaring the rear.
Pinion angle you have sounds good.
A neutral alignment (most cars are set up for road crown) is great for a drag car.
Sounds like you have good handle on things. Don't forget to make small changes at the track so you can see the effect and know what is working better and what isn't. A good place to start would be to adjust tire pressure a little bit each pass and see the effects. Of course, I'm just stating what I've learned from Madman and look what that guy did to my bumper
If you have adjustable LCAs you can start with squaring the rear end by measuring from the front of the door jamb to the center of the rim/axle. Simple as making both of the equal.
You do want a uphill rise in the LCAs but your only real adjustment is going be raising/lowering them in relocation brackets, so I don't know how 2* could be exact.
Not sure what you mean by get differential straight with the LCAs unless you are refering to squaring the rear.
Pinion angle you have sounds good.
A neutral alignment (most cars are set up for road crown) is great for a drag car.
Sounds like you have good handle on things. Don't forget to make small changes at the track so you can see the effect and know what is working better and what isn't. A good place to start would be to adjust tire pressure a little bit each pass and see the effects. Of course, I'm just stating what I've learned from Madman and look what that guy did to my bumper
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From: victoria canada.
Thanks very much.
Yes I was referring to squaring the rear.
I agree, small changes are the key here.
I am still interested in the front vs. rear ride height though, because even if the car is on level ground, you could have the rear end real high and the front end real low. Obviously this isn't right, so I'm wondering where the starting point is etc.
Thanks again.
Yes I was referring to squaring the rear.
I agree, small changes are the key here.
I am still interested in the front vs. rear ride height though, because even if the car is on level ground, you could have the rear end real high and the front end real low. Obviously this isn't right, so I'm wondering where the starting point is etc.
Thanks again.
Don't know how valid it is, but a NHRA SuperStock racer that works for Hal told me to level the car front to back. His theory was that the more "nose down" a car is, the more energy you waste overcoming that to get the "nose up" to transfer weight to the rear.
Originally Posted by onfire
BTW, the lowest hole on my lca brackets puts the lca angle at 8 degrees. I wonder if the middle hole would be better?
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Thread Starter
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From: victoria canada.
onfire, I read that in one of your posts while doing a search. It makes sense to me and there is a guy here whom has a Super Stock car. In order to keep his car farely level, he put larger wheels on the front (although this also effects roll out etc).
Anyhow this afternoon I leveled the car. I just raised my springs up another 1/4 inch on my Hals. Now I have to go through the rear adjustments again.
I built my own relocate brackets and ran them on the lower hole until I read about Madman running them at 2*. I put mine to the middle hole and that was right on 2*.
Tomorrow I will measure again, adjust and then set the pinion angle again.
I'll post my findings with a level car and the relocation bracket hole. I'll measure how far down from the factory hole, so others will have a better idea.
Anyhow this afternoon I leveled the car. I just raised my springs up another 1/4 inch on my Hals. Now I have to go through the rear adjustments again.
I built my own relocate brackets and ran them on the lower hole until I read about Madman running them at 2*. I put mine to the middle hole and that was right on 2*.
Tomorrow I will measure again, adjust and then set the pinion angle again.
I'll post my findings with a level car and the relocation bracket hole. I'll measure how far down from the factory hole, so others will have a better idea.
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Verdad Gallardo TT, let's keep the info coming to this thread as no one thread really pulls together a suspension set-up.
The other suggestions from the Hal guy:
1. DA Front shocks: Set the rebound on the front shock to get the weight tranfer to the rear tires as quicky as the track will allow but don't exceed the track. Example: if its a real slippery track set the rebound at 1 (real loose) but if the track is hooking hard you don't need that much lift so keep dialing the number up 5 to 6 until you lose 60ft time.
2. DA Front shocks: Set the compression so the front lands softly without bouncing after setting the rebound...start around 6.
3. Rear DA shocks. Start at 6 rebound and 6 compression. Drop the rebound number down on a slick track that needs more weight transfer. Compression shouldn't change much.
The other suggestions from the Hal guy:
1. DA Front shocks: Set the rebound on the front shock to get the weight tranfer to the rear tires as quicky as the track will allow but don't exceed the track. Example: if its a real slippery track set the rebound at 1 (real loose) but if the track is hooking hard you don't need that much lift so keep dialing the number up 5 to 6 until you lose 60ft time.
2. DA Front shocks: Set the compression so the front lands softly without bouncing after setting the rebound...start around 6.
3. Rear DA shocks. Start at 6 rebound and 6 compression. Drop the rebound number down on a slick track that needs more weight transfer. Compression shouldn't change much.
Originally Posted by onfire
TT, let's keep the info coming to this thread as no one thread really pulls together a suspension set-up.
The other suggestions from the Hal guy:
1. DA Front shocks: Set the rebound on the front shock to get the weight tranfer to the rear tires as quicky as the track will allow but don't exceed the track. Example: if its a real slippery track set the rebound at 1 (real loose) but if the track is hooking hard you don't need that much lift so keep dialing the number up 5 to 6 until you lose 60ft time.
2. DA Front shocks: Set the compression so the front lands softly without bouncing after setting the rebound...start around 6.
3. Rear DA shocks. Start at 6 rebound and 6 compression. Drop the rebound number down on a slick track that needs more weight transfer. Compression shouldn't change much.
The other suggestions from the Hal guy:
1. DA Front shocks: Set the rebound on the front shock to get the weight tranfer to the rear tires as quicky as the track will allow but don't exceed the track. Example: if its a real slippery track set the rebound at 1 (real loose) but if the track is hooking hard you don't need that much lift so keep dialing the number up 5 to 6 until you lose 60ft time.
2. DA Front shocks: Set the compression so the front lands softly without bouncing after setting the rebound...start around 6.
3. Rear DA shocks. Start at 6 rebound and 6 compression. Drop the rebound number down on a slick track that needs more weight transfer. Compression shouldn't change much.
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From: victoria canada.
Too bad Hals aren't DA.
I set my fronts on two and my rears on two. The car doesn't bounce.
Now my rears seem kinda weird to me. If I set them anything above 3 clicks from full loose, I can't even get the rear of the car to move up or down. Is there something wrong?
I set my fronts on two and my rears on two. The car doesn't bounce.
Now my rears seem kinda weird to me. If I set them anything above 3 clicks from full loose, I can't even get the rear of the car to move up or down. Is there something wrong?
Originally Posted by Dear John
I think the rear compression should be tight and the extension/rebound to be loose.
During some recent NA runs, I was having an issue of the fronts leaving the track surface, wasting my forward momentum (F=2/R=4). After talking with some buddies, we tried loosening the rear some more (F=2/R=3) lift no change but slipped a lil more. Went south on our initial adj. and messed with the fonts (F=4/R=6) viola! Kept the fronts to a full extension but maintained contact with the ground and 60' dropped -.18 very happy.
My recommendation, make sure you do inital track settings after walking the track, then read your tires! From there, adjust tire psi accordingly, once flat across section burn/scrub *monitor the beading to adjust burnout, do not over heat your tires, you only need a few degree more than the track surface which is where a digital IR thermo comes in handy
* tune tune tune the suspension, feel the car and as above small adjustments.Charlie
Originally Posted by Terry'sToy
Now my rears seem kinda weird to me. If I set them anything above 3 clicks from full loose, I can't even get the rear of the car to move up or down. Is there something wrong?
subscribing...
Originally Posted by Dear John
I think the rear compression should be tight and the extension/rebound to be loose.
That's correct. Dropping the rebound number on a DA shock loosens (frees) the rebound.
Originally Posted by onfire
BTW, the lowest hole on my lca brackets puts the lca angle at 8 degrees. I wonder if the middle hole would be better?
How does having too much angle on the control arms effect rear suspension behavior on launch?
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From: victoria canada.
CAT3,
I will try some more shock tuning once I get the suspension sorted. I agree, too much time spent going upwards is energy and time that can be spent going down the track.
I'll stiffen my fronts and rears; one thing at a time and make some notes. By the way, what do you mean by monitoring the beading, I've never heard of that. We have been measuring track temp and trying to keep it and the tires within 25*.
kevredz,
having the LCA's at too steep of an angle can cause bind between them and the torque arm. The diff has to swing in an arc and these are the three parts that make the arc,(two LCA' and the T/arm).
I will try some more shock tuning once I get the suspension sorted. I agree, too much time spent going upwards is energy and time that can be spent going down the track.
I'll stiffen my fronts and rears; one thing at a time and make some notes. By the way, what do you mean by monitoring the beading, I've never heard of that. We have been measuring track temp and trying to keep it and the tires within 25*.
kevredz,
having the LCA's at too steep of an angle can cause bind between them and the torque arm. The diff has to swing in an arc and these are the three parts that make the arc,(two LCA' and the T/arm).
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From: victoria canada.
Ok, I did some measurments today. I got the car level first. That was easy as I have 26" tires front and rear, so all I did was jack up the Hals another 1/2 inch. My Hal springs are about 1/2 inch from the top of the threads on the shock. My car has all the **** in it still, like A/C etc. No weight reduction yet.
I put a level on the frame, doorsill and pinch rail. All of them showed level. Of course this was done on a leveled pad with the same weight person as me in the car. I then did all the measurements. With my homemade LCA brackets with three holes in them, I measured the angle with the LCA's in the second hole down(third from factory hole) The first hole is 1 3/4" from the stock hole which gives an angle very close to 2* with the car lowered 1" from factory. The second hole down is 2 1/2" from the stock hole and gives close to 3 1/2* with the car lowered 1" from factory. So I am going to use the first hole down on mine, but this gives folks a measurement to check. Then I checked pinion angle and I'm at 3*.
This is all to make the car 60' quicker and more consistently.
Next is to take it to the alignment guy and get the trusty drag alignment done.
I race tomorrow if the weather holds, so I'll post my results.
I put a level on the frame, doorsill and pinch rail. All of them showed level. Of course this was done on a leveled pad with the same weight person as me in the car. I then did all the measurements. With my homemade LCA brackets with three holes in them, I measured the angle with the LCA's in the second hole down(third from factory hole) The first hole is 1 3/4" from the stock hole which gives an angle very close to 2* with the car lowered 1" from factory. The second hole down is 2 1/2" from the stock hole and gives close to 3 1/2* with the car lowered 1" from factory. So I am going to use the first hole down on mine, but this gives folks a measurement to check. Then I checked pinion angle and I'm at 3*.
This is all to make the car 60' quicker and more consistently.
Next is to take it to the alignment guy and get the trusty drag alignment done.
I race tomorrow if the weather holds, so I'll post my results.
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From: victoria canada.
Madman also had some info on the downward angle of the torque arm and the height of the forward pivot point, etc. It would be way cool if he could step in and smarten me up.