Can't keep the front end down on launch
Originally Posted by 69vette
How do you know how long to have the travel limiter cables? Like on wolfe's kit, you could clamp the cable to whatever length you wanted
Wheelie I would try a stiffer front spring or lower the launch RPm (this could cause the ET to drop though). This is a common problem guys have and travel limiters can help but I try and stay away from them unless your doing crazy uncontrolable wheel stands. Also a better shock like a Afco or Strange would help in a situation like this also. Need more info let me know. 
Jason@paracing.com
877-550-8400
Jason@paracing.com
877-550-8400
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From: Out on the farm in Central IL
I have limiters on the car but have not started to play with them yet. I figured that would be the next step. I also have a Harlan 2 step. I have not been able to figure out how to wire this in with the TB. I have tried to play with launch RPM. However without the 2 step it is not predictable. I can pull the front about 18" off the foot brake. But the 60' goes down.
The converter issue will get worse next year. I am stepping up a lot on the converter. This is one of the spots that the car is weak. I will also be adding HP over the winter.
I did think of moving the instant center forward. That's easy to do. May try that.
It is also about time to send the front shocks into Naake for a rebuild. I don't see that as a problem but who knows.
I don't want to start to back off stuff if I don;t have to. The car is built to run. Backing off is not a great option to me.
The converter issue will get worse next year. I am stepping up a lot on the converter. This is one of the spots that the car is weak. I will also be adding HP over the winter.
I did think of moving the instant center forward. That's easy to do. May try that.
It is also about time to send the front shocks into Naake for a rebuild. I don't see that as a problem but who knows.
I don't want to start to back off stuff if I don;t have to. The car is built to run. Backing off is not a great option to me.
You should discuss with Jugger how to use that 2step.
I have a 2step through my BS3, I had mine set at 3500 when I saw you at Byron. I had mine set to low, but it was very consistent. In my case I cut 4-5 1.55 passes. Once you go more converter I think the 2step will be a requirement. Magnus was throwing the wheels 3-4 feet in the air and he thinks that killed his bottom end.
I have a 2step through my BS3, I had mine set at 3500 when I saw you at Byron. I had mine set to low, but it was very consistent. In my case I cut 4-5 1.55 passes. Once you go more converter I think the 2step will be a requirement. Magnus was throwing the wheels 3-4 feet in the air and he thinks that killed his bottom end.
I have had some issues like that, and I foot brake mine from 2000 RPM. I found a 1/2" change in front travel makes a noticable difference. If you have some fabrication skills you can make a cheaper, lighter and easier-to-adjust set of limiters than the Wolf deal. Mine are adjustable from the top. Somebody had pictures of a late F body "roller" for sale somewhere here that had front limiters similar to mine. I copied mine from a friend's NHRA Super Stock GT '97 Camaro built my Mike Pustelney (MPR Race Cars), so I can't take credit for the design. Like all of MPR's work I have seen, they are pretty slick.
I often have to run mine set so I have only 2" of drop in the front wheels. My 60' times are normally 1.30/1.32.
I have also found only carrying the wheels up 2' or so doesn't really seem to slow mine down much. Up 3' or more certainly does. 8" to 12", at least with my car, is only a couple hundredths quicker than 2' in the air.
I often have to run mine set so I have only 2" of drop in the front wheels. My 60' times are normally 1.30/1.32.
I have also found only carrying the wheels up 2' or so doesn't really seem to slow mine down much. Up 3' or more certainly does. 8" to 12", at least with my car, is only a couple hundredths quicker than 2' in the air.
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From: Out on the farm in Central IL
The limiters I have in the car are adjustable. I just pull a pin and move the top bar up and down. I have not tried to use them yet but that may be the best option. Gotta figure out how to hook a chain on there. I am not wild about using cable.
Originally Posted by vtec
jack the front end up until the tires are off the ground. and that will be your longest cable setting.
I tightened the limiters all the way and made a pass just to see what the car did. Didn't do much of a wheelie at all and the 60' was terrible. 1.38
I then loosened them up one bolt hole which is approximately 3/4". Made another pass and the 60' was a little better but not much of a wheelie on this pass either. 1.35
I loosened them another bolt hole a vwaaala. The 60' was much better and the car did a wheelie about 1.5' from the tires to the track. About like in my sig or just a little more. 1.30
On the next pass I loosened the rebound on the front shocks and the 60's went into the 1.2X range.
I don't want to make it sound like it's that simple as I had adjusted the rear shocks for the previous 2 weeks at the track.
I always experiment with all my settings to see what happens. Launch RPM, Limiters, double adjustable shocks, pinion angle, LCA angle, air pressure, burnout length.
I'm pretty well set up now. On my next track visit (next year) I'll loosen the rebound on the front shocks all the way and see what happens
Then start moving my launch rpm's up. 
I have had cables on mine for two years with absolutley no problems. I found setting the shocks at zero (R series QA1s) and just limiting wheelstands with the limiters gave me the best 60's. I do use three cable clamps on each end, and re-tighten them after they have been on a couple of days.
Originally Posted by Tom the roofer
This is what I did.
I tightened the limiters all the way and made a pass just to see what the car did. Didn't do much of a wheelie at all and the 60' was terrible. 1.38
I then loosened them up one bolt hole which is approximately 3/4". Made another pass and the 60' was a little better but not much of a wheelie on this pass either. 1.35
I loosened them another bolt hole a vwaaala. The 60' was much better and the car did a wheelie about 1.5' from the tires to the track. About like in my sig or just a little more. 1.30
On the next pass I loosened the rebound on the front shocks and the 60's went into the 1.2X range.
I don't want to make it sound like it's that simple as I had adjusted the rear shocks for the previous 2 weeks at the track.
I always experiment with all my settings to see what happens. Launch RPM, Limiters, double adjustable shocks, pinion angle, LCA angle, air pressure, burnout length.
I'm pretty well set up now. On my next track visit (next year) I'll loosen the rebound on the front shocks all the way and see what happens Then start moving my launch rpm's up.
I tightened the limiters all the way and made a pass just to see what the car did. Didn't do much of a wheelie at all and the 60' was terrible. 1.38
I then loosened them up one bolt hole which is approximately 3/4". Made another pass and the 60' was a little better but not much of a wheelie on this pass either. 1.35
I loosened them another bolt hole a vwaaala. The 60' was much better and the car did a wheelie about 1.5' from the tires to the track. About like in my sig or just a little more. 1.30
On the next pass I loosened the rebound on the front shocks and the 60's went into the 1.2X range.
I don't want to make it sound like it's that simple as I had adjusted the rear shocks for the previous 2 weeks at the track.
I always experiment with all my settings to see what happens. Launch RPM, Limiters, double adjustable shocks, pinion angle, LCA angle, air pressure, burnout length.
I'm pretty well set up now. On my next track visit (next year) I'll loosen the rebound on the front shocks all the way and see what happens
Then start moving my launch rpm's up. When you clamped the cables to set the limiters length, you had them in the bottom hole, correct? And then you moved them to the top hole and started loosing up from there. You said yours had about 3/4" between the holes.... how many holes are there or what distance is there from the loosest to the tightest setting. I'm planing to fab up a set for one of my cars. thanks for the help
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From: Out on the farm in Central IL
Here is a picture of the limiters on my car. I have a bar that goes in the top and can be adjusted up and down. I now need to figure out how to set them up.
http://groups.msn.com/SteveDawn/ther...to&PhotoID=314
http://groups.msn.com/SteveDawn/ther...to&PhotoID=314
To set them up you will need to jack the car up with the front tire hanging all the way down. Put your bar with all the holes in it in the lowest hole so that the remainder of the holes are hanging towards the lower control arm. At that point install your chain(or cable.)
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From: On the Bumper!
It stops the momentum of the tires from carrying the car up and in some cases, all the way over to the bumper.
I 60ft best with my car limited 2" from full travel, but every car is different.
Madmans travel limiters are sweet. Easy to install and adjust.
It keeps the nose at a safe comfortable height and 60fts best like this pic.
I 60ft best with my car limited 2" from full travel, but every car is different.
Madmans travel limiters are sweet. Easy to install and adjust.
It keeps the nose at a safe comfortable height and 60fts best like this pic.
It's not..
Originally Posted by bad6as
ok so limiters only let the wheels fall so far......so how would that help him keep the front wheels down?
On launch, the wheels are on the ground. The body reacts to the launch,& after a short period of pitch rotation, the suspension tops out, and the suspension and tires are then picked up.
Travel limiters reduce the time lapse between chassis rotation, and the lifting of the tires. IE: the wt of the unsprung suspension is added to the wt of the ft end of the body, sooner than without the limiters.
Bottom line: more wt seen up front, helps limit pitch rotation, saving the back bumper
Back to
I'm not a fan of Hal's stuff. I'm an AFCO fan, but did you get the tall or the short springs?
I had some tall springs in the past and I could crank all I wanted on the shocks and it still went high. Travel limiters are going to keep the springs from fully extending but going to a shorter spring will probably calm he car down too and you will gain back the adjustablity range of the shocks.
The black car is 3530 lbs and holds the C/FIA record and the silver car is 3200 lbs and holds the B/FIA record. We have no travel limiters in either car. The wheelie bar barely get touched. They were on there when we had the wrong stuff and we keep them on just in case. There is no added weight in the front.
Scaz
I had some tall springs in the past and I could crank all I wanted on the shocks and it still went high. Travel limiters are going to keep the springs from fully extending but going to a shorter spring will probably calm he car down too and you will gain back the adjustablity range of the shocks.
The black car is 3530 lbs and holds the C/FIA record and the silver car is 3200 lbs and holds the B/FIA record. We have no travel limiters in either car. The wheelie bar barely get touched. They were on there when we had the wrong stuff and we keep them on just in case. There is no added weight in the front.
Scaz