Need help keeping front end down
Pro Mod, and fuel cars are a whole different deal.
the automatic trans NHRA Super Stockers don't de-tune to keep the front ends down, at least none I know of, they do it with travel limiters and wheelie bar adjustments. One friend adjusts that in his Pro Stock car mostly by moving weight around and the wheelie bars. The 10.5" shoototut guys I work with use travel limiters, shock settings and tire pressure. However, anybody running high 6s and low 7s on 10.5" tires aint right anyway.
the automatic trans NHRA Super Stockers don't de-tune to keep the front ends down, at least none I know of, they do it with travel limiters and wheelie bar adjustments. One friend adjusts that in his Pro Stock car mostly by moving weight around and the wheelie bars. The 10.5" shoototut guys I work with use travel limiters, shock settings and tire pressure. However, anybody running high 6s and low 7s on 10.5" tires aint right anyway.
Originally Posted by ALL UC2
wheelie bars??? who the hell needs those. put that bitch on the bumper and then show us the video!!!!!!!!! hehe
Ask me how I know
Originally Posted by ATVracr
After you do it once and break a bunch of stuff you dont want to do it anymore
Ask me how I know
Ask me how I know
Makes your wife real cranky after two or three of those. Ask me how I know.
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Originally Posted by Ed Wright
Pro Mod, and fuel cars are a whole different deal.
the automatic trans NHRA Super Stockers don't de-tune to keep the front ends down, at least none I know of, they do it with travel limiters and wheelie bar adjustments. One friend adjusts that in his Pro Stock car mostly by moving weight around and the wheelie bars. The 10.5" shoototut guys I work with use travel limiters, shock settings and tire pressure. However, anybody running high 6s and low 7s on 10.5" tires aint right anyway.
the automatic trans NHRA Super Stockers don't de-tune to keep the front ends down, at least none I know of, they do it with travel limiters and wheelie bar adjustments. One friend adjusts that in his Pro Stock car mostly by moving weight around and the wheelie bars. The 10.5" shoototut guys I work with use travel limiters, shock settings and tire pressure. However, anybody running high 6s and low 7s on 10.5" tires aint right anyway.
The only time we take power out at the hit of the throttle is when the tracks a little greasy, but usually 1* of timing too much and itll dead hook and hit the bars so hard itll unload the chassis and go into tire shake...not good...
But yes with a 4 link car all you do is adjust pre-load,and wheelie bar height and ur done.
But same can be done on a Adj torque arm, if your running -4* or something raise it to -2* and go from there...
Same with shocks, tighten or loosen as needbe, im sure most of the guys having problems going on the bumper in these cars have single or double adjustables, stiffen up the rear and adjust pinion angle, no need for travel limiters IMO...Travel limiters just prevent the tire from dropping past a certain point when no load is applied, so on a good single or double adjustable shock, why not put a few more clicks in on the rebound side and not let the shock expand as quickly?
Originally Posted by Ls1LikeNoOther
right I know 2 different animals,thats why I was just stating my .02
The only time we take power out at the hit of the throttle is when the tracks a little greasy, but usually 1* of timing too much and itll dead hook and hit the bars so hard itll unload the chassis and go into tire shake...not good...
But yes with a 4 link car all you do is adjust pre-load,and wheelie bar height and ur done.
But same can be done on a Adj torque arm, if your running -4* or something raise it to -2* and go from there...
Same with shocks, tighten or loosen as needbe, im sure most of the guys having problems going on the bumper in these cars have single or double adjustables, stiffen up the rear and adjust pinion angle, no need for travel limiters IMO...Travel limiters just prevent the tire from dropping past a certain point when no load is applied, so on a good single or double adjustable shock, why not put a few more clicks in on the rebound side and not let the shock expand as quickly?
The only time we take power out at the hit of the throttle is when the tracks a little greasy, but usually 1* of timing too much and itll dead hook and hit the bars so hard itll unload the chassis and go into tire shake...not good...
But yes with a 4 link car all you do is adjust pre-load,and wheelie bar height and ur done.
But same can be done on a Adj torque arm, if your running -4* or something raise it to -2* and go from there...
Same with shocks, tighten or loosen as needbe, im sure most of the guys having problems going on the bumper in these cars have single or double adjustables, stiffen up the rear and adjust pinion angle, no need for travel limiters IMO...Travel limiters just prevent the tire from dropping past a certain point when no load is applied, so on a good single or double adjustable shock, why not put a few more clicks in on the rebound side and not let the shock expand as quickly?
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Originally Posted by Ed Wright
How do you "get too much bite for the hp"? Automatic cars are SUPPOSED to dead hook, no wheel spin at all. If your atuomatic car spins the tires at all, you could be faster.
This is were data aquisition is your best friend. Drive shaft speed and rear coilover travel sensors to measure the rise on launch are good things to look at. From there its just reapeated runs of launching and adjusting shock/tire pressure/wheelie bar height/ applied power/etc. to fine tune it.
Im not trying to disagree with you in anyway or say your wrong, I'm just speaking from what I've learned. Im one of those not right 10.5 guys ....
Originally Posted by promod1955
I'm going to go against this a little bit and speak from my experience in automatic cars. When you "dead hook" something, whats basicly happening? Your stopping the drive line momentum. When you dead hook a stick car it stands a good chance to bog off the line. Why is it impossible for an auto car to react the same way. I'm not saying you should treat auto/stick cars exactly the same, however I think the key here is "controlled spin".
This is were data aquisition is your best friend. Drive shaft speed and rear coilover travel sensors to measure the rise on launch are good things to look at. From there its just reapeated runs of launching and adjusting shock/tire pressure/wheelie bar height/ applied power/etc. to fine tune it.
Im not trying to disagree with you in anyway or say your wrong, I'm just speaking from what I've learned. Im one of those not right 10.5 guys ....
This is were data aquisition is your best friend. Drive shaft speed and rear coilover travel sensors to measure the rise on launch are good things to look at. From there its just reapeated runs of launching and adjusting shock/tire pressure/wheelie bar height/ applied power/etc. to fine tune it.
Im not trying to disagree with you in anyway or say your wrong, I'm just speaking from what I've learned. Im one of those not right 10.5 guys ....
Originally Posted by promod1955
I'm going to go against this a little bit and speak from my experience in automatic cars. When you "dead hook" something, whats basicly happening? Your stopping the drive line momentum. When you dead hook a stick car it stands a good chance to bog off the line. Why is it impossible for an auto car to react the same way. I'm not saying you should treat auto/stick cars exactly the same, however I think the key here is "controlled spin".
This is were data aquisition is your best friend. Drive shaft speed and rear coilover travel sensors to measure the rise on launch are good things to look at. From there its just reapeated runs of launching and adjusting shock/tire pressure/wheelie bar height/ applied power/etc. to fine tune it.
Im not trying to disagree with you in anyway or say your wrong, I'm just speaking from what I've learned. Im one of those not right 10.5 guys ....
This is were data aquisition is your best friend. Drive shaft speed and rear coilover travel sensors to measure the rise on launch are good things to look at. From there its just reapeated runs of launching and adjusting shock/tire pressure/wheelie bar height/ applied power/etc. to fine tune it.
Im not trying to disagree with you in anyway or say your wrong, I'm just speaking from what I've learned. Im one of those not right 10.5 guys ....
The stick shift cars do have to spin. My friend's Pro Stocker, even at over 1400 fwhp, has to turn them over three to five times on the launch or his times suffer. He's no turd, #4 in NHRA points last year. If you don't think you run the stick and automatic cars differently, if you race long enough you will learn you were mistaken.
The 10.5 cars I help around here have trouble dead hooking, the faster ones do anyway. They would if they could. Inducing more wheel spin is not how they try to keep the front end down. They move weight, adjust shocks and travel limiters.
Sparks from the 'chute mounts do look cool at night.
I wasn't implying wheel spin is how you keep the front end down, it was geared towards getting better 60fts. We had a disscussion with Jerry Bickel on this and it went way more into the direction of tire rotation then dead hooking. I assume hes dead wrong too then? Regardless, sounds like you and your buddies got it figured out. I know on my own car and not a buddy of mine, that my first post was what made my car go faster. As we all are aware of, Different horsepower cars need different things. Keep trying things until you find out what the car likes. Your opinion on this may be exactly what a car likes. A superstocker thats not as stiff as a p/m, p/s, or t/s car, might like more of a dead hook due to some chassis twist taking place allowing drive line momentum to still happen.
The only thing I dont agree with is how it looks like you imply every single automatic car will be at its fastest dead hooking. BTW, Good luck in 07.
The only thing I dont agree with is how it looks like you imply every single automatic car will be at its fastest dead hooking. BTW, Good luck in 07.
Last edited by promod1955; Jan 17, 2007 at 01:10 PM.
I've talked to Bickle. He came by Mike's pits on race weekends to visit when Mike was using his cars. His last couple have been Haas cars.
What do you drive, where and what class do you race?
Thanks, good luck to you also.
What do you drive, where and what class do you race?
Thanks, good luck to you also.
something else i thought of to add to the discussion:
buddy of mine runs nmra pure street... if it "dead hooks" the 60's are quicker, but whatever he gained there he loses to halftrack.
in other words, its worth it for him to spin and lose a bit in the 60' in order to gain more to halftrack.
buddy of mine runs nmra pure street... if it "dead hooks" the 60's are quicker, but whatever he gained there he loses to halftrack.
in other words, its worth it for him to spin and lose a bit in the 60' in order to gain more to halftrack.
Ed, without whoring up hot coppers thread to bad, we race from Orlando to Maple Grove to Norwalk.We didn't go to many places in 06', as my dad went from severe back pain which turned into back surgery in September. We just sold our top sportsman car which was a Don Ness firebird. It was Arnie Martel's old car. That class is getting far to quick for me to afford, and going 200 mph in a door car braket racing and getting on the brakes at the top end isnt the "safest" thing to do.
I got a 67 chevy II footbrake car I braket race at Virginia Motorsports Park on a regular basis. I won an iron man in this car at the AC Delco nationals about 3 years ago. Took out Bertozzi first round, Edmond Richardson got knocked out in the semi's, and I beat the guy who took him out in the finals. Not bad for a footbrake car in an electronic class. Also finished 5th in points In the Radier E.T. challange 2 years ago. Finished 2nd in points @ vmp a few years ago.
Im burnt out in bracket racing and I'm currently building a turbo drag radial camaro. Being involved with a few of my customers fast cars has kept my sanity.
A local guy here wants to hire me to drive his top dragster this year, but like said before, Im burnt out on bracket stuff.
Edwards did good this year. Im about over seeing Line and Anderson win all the time.
I got a 67 chevy II footbrake car I braket race at Virginia Motorsports Park on a regular basis. I won an iron man in this car at the AC Delco nationals about 3 years ago. Took out Bertozzi first round, Edmond Richardson got knocked out in the semi's, and I beat the guy who took him out in the finals. Not bad for a footbrake car in an electronic class. Also finished 5th in points In the Radier E.T. challange 2 years ago. Finished 2nd in points @ vmp a few years ago.
Im burnt out in bracket racing and I'm currently building a turbo drag radial camaro. Being involved with a few of my customers fast cars has kept my sanity.
A local guy here wants to hire me to drive his top dragster this year, but like said before, Im burnt out on bracket stuff.
Edwards did good this year. Im about over seeing Line and Anderson win all the time.
Last edited by promod1955; Jan 18, 2007 at 09:22 AM.
Originally Posted by vtec
something else i thought of to add to the discussion:
buddy of mine runs nmra pure street... if it "dead hooks" the 60's are quicker, but whatever he gained there he loses to halftrack.
in other words, its worth it for him to spin and lose a bit in the 60' in order to gain more to halftrack.
buddy of mine runs nmra pure street... if it "dead hooks" the 60's are quicker, but whatever he gained there he loses to halftrack.
in other words, its worth it for him to spin and lose a bit in the 60' in order to gain more to halftrack.
Originally Posted by promod1955
Ed, without whoring up hot coppers thread to bad, we race from Orlando to Maple Grove to Norwalk.We didn't go to many places in 06', as my dad went from severe back pain which turned into back surgery in September. We just sold our top sportsman car which was a Don Ness firebird. It was Arnie Martel's old car. That class is getting far to quick for me to afford, and going 200 mph in a door car braket racing and getting on the brakes at the top end isnt the "safest" thing to do.
I got a 67 chevy II footbrake car I braket race at Virginia Motorsports Park on a regular basis. I won an iron man in this car at the AC Delco nationals about 3 years ago. Took out Bertozzi first round, Edmond Richardson got knocked out in the semi's, and I beat the guy who took him out in the finals. Not bad for a footbrake car in an electronic class. Also finished 5th in points In the Radier E.T. challange 2 years ago. Finished 2nd in points @ vmp a few years ago.
Im burnt out in bracket racing and I'm currently building a turbo drag radial camaro. Being involved with a few of my customers fast cars has kept my sanity.
A local guy here wants to hire me to drive his top dragster this year, but like said before, Im burnt out on bracket stuff.
Edwards did good this year. Im about over seeing Line and Anderson win all the time.
I got a 67 chevy II footbrake car I braket race at Virginia Motorsports Park on a regular basis. I won an iron man in this car at the AC Delco nationals about 3 years ago. Took out Bertozzi first round, Edmond Richardson got knocked out in the semi's, and I beat the guy who took him out in the finals. Not bad for a footbrake car in an electronic class. Also finished 5th in points In the Radier E.T. challange 2 years ago. Finished 2nd in points @ vmp a few years ago.
Im burnt out in bracket racing and I'm currently building a turbo drag radial camaro. Being involved with a few of my customers fast cars has kept my sanity.
A local guy here wants to hire me to drive his top dragster this year, but like said before, Im burnt out on bracket stuff.
Edwards did good this year. Im about over seeing Line and Anderson win all the time.
Robbie, that's impressive. I have a friend/customer in upper New York state that runs both electronic and no-e at two tracks every weekend, and often wins both. I used to be pretty good, but am getting old. When I'm "on", I'm on, but am not "on" as often anymore. Bracket racing is boring, but other than those (you) crazy guys going fast on small tires, the only other thing is NHRA & IHRA Super Stock that I can afford. Comp is about as bad as Pro Stock, without the pay outs. I have been looking at going back into Super Stock, but it has become bracket racng too.
I'm hoping Mikes new car will 60' better than last years. His back half numbers (et from 1/8th to 1/4 mile) were very often better than Line & Anderson's but his 60' and 330' numbers were weak. Seems like one car will 60' better, and the next stays hooked through the middle better. If your real lucky, you get one that will do both, like Line's car last year.
Good luck, Ed
Originally Posted by Ed Wright
When I'm "on", I'm on, but am not "on" as often anymore.
Roy Hill tried to stick me in a pro stock car a few years back, but first it was a ford and we all know how well they do in NHRA prostock. On top of that i was still in college for engineering and didnt want to screw that up either. Would of been fun though!