Suspension help for a car that already hooks?
02-21-2008, 01:19 PM
#1
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Suspension help for a car that already hooks? Need a little help here b/c I'm not sure what direction to take the car into.
Two ways I'm looking at this:
The car already dead hooks (no tire spin)... so it's not going to get much faster with suspension... I'm out of torque/power?
or..
Suspension might get me into the lower 1.5's, possibly 1.4's.. at least that's what some keep telling me.
So I'm looking for input from the faster guys that have been this route already.
I have zero suspension mods except:
BMR lower control arms
Hotchkis panhard rod
!front sway bar
Everything else is stock.. no relocation brackets, stock TA, 90k mile shocks/springs....
The car dead hooks to a high 1.5 for the most part.. 1.57, 1.58...
Here's a couple of vids of it leaving:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6qN5zvqCM8 (1.57) 11.29 pass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sb-xZoCfHI (1.58) 11.27 pass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSpUS1FkbR8 (1.57) older 11.37 pass
Where should I go from here and what results should I expect? I don't plan on pulling much (if any) weight out of this car. It tips the scale at 3400 w/o driver. It weights about 3575 with me in it.
Two ways I'm looking at this:
The car already dead hooks (no tire spin)... so it's not going to get much faster with suspension... I'm out of torque/power?
or..
Suspension might get me into the lower 1.5's, possibly 1.4's.. at least that's what some keep telling me.
So I'm looking for input from the faster guys that have been this route already.
I have zero suspension mods except:
BMR lower control arms
Hotchkis panhard rod
!front sway bar
Everything else is stock.. no relocation brackets, stock TA, 90k mile shocks/springs....
The car dead hooks to a high 1.5 for the most part.. 1.57, 1.58...
Here's a couple of vids of it leaving:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6qN5zvqCM8 (1.57) 11.29 pass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sb-xZoCfHI (1.58) 11.27 pass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSpUS1FkbR8 (1.57) older 11.37 pass
Where should I go from here and what results should I expect? I don't plan on pulling much (if any) weight out of this car. It tips the scale at 3400 w/o driver. It weights about 3575 with me in it.
02-21-2008, 02:00 PM
#3
Suspension will help. The mph you run and et along with your 60ft shows you still have improvement. When I ran 119 mph I was running high 10.90's 11.0x's with high 1.4 60fts.
Right now you're high 11.20's with high 1.5's 60fts so you can see there is room left in your current combo.
Watching your car leave you're losing some power through the chassis, if you look you can see it twist, so I would look into getting a good anti roll bar you can preload, also being able to adjust the torque arm or lower control arms can help since you have about 0.10 more potential in the 60ft to go if you want to maximize what you have now.
Just buy the suspension package and tune the car, madman, wolfe, bmr, umi all make complete kits with everything you need.
Right now you're high 11.20's with high 1.5's 60fts so you can see there is room left in your current combo.
Watching your car leave you're losing some power through the chassis, if you look you can see it twist, so I would look into getting a good anti roll bar you can preload, also being able to adjust the torque arm or lower control arms can help since you have about 0.10 more potential in the 60ft to go if you want to maximize what you have now.
Just buy the suspension package and tune the car, madman, wolfe, bmr, umi all make complete kits with everything you need.
02-21-2008, 03:37 PM
#4
go to a bigger converter...stinks that i got a 3600yank thinking it was truely a 3600 compared to my old 3200 converter but they feel the same...actually the yank feels tighter and 60's like it is...i wish i had of done a 4000(hear thats more like a 3600)
you should do a 4400...you dont plan on spraying it do you? and you might be able to get some better e.t. and mph by playing with tire pressure you might be hooking to welll
you should do a 4400...you dont plan on spraying it do you? and you might be able to get some better e.t. and mph by playing with tire pressure you might be hooking to welll
02-21-2008, 04:45 PM
#5
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1) QA1 R shocks up front and back, stock springs. Front shocks for sure.
2) BMR rear drag bar, keeps the car from twisting, my Camaro does 1.48 on motor and 1.38 on the can and always launches completely straight.
3) Loosen up converter 400 rpms.
#1 and #2 might get you in the low 1.5's and get you close to the 10's maybe into the 10's.
2) BMR rear drag bar, keeps the car from twisting, my Camaro does 1.48 on motor and 1.38 on the can and always launches completely straight.
3) Loosen up converter 400 rpms.
#1 and #2 might get you in the low 1.5's and get you close to the 10's maybe into the 10's.
02-21-2008, 05:23 PM
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Good start for information so far guys, keep it comin'...
Daniel... I do plan to spray in the future, but this converter will be no good for it. I'd like to hit my goals for the car with the PT4000 and then switch to a PY so I can spray on a 3.73 gear and 28" tire possibly next year. On spray I'm going to shoot for a 9 second pass. Had the tires at 18psi cold.. the track I run at it can be hit or miss for hooking so I started lower than usual.
John... loosening the stall 400 RPM sounds like going to the PT4400 like Daniel was suggesting correct? I think I'm gonna have to make due with this stall so I can move forward in the future to spray with a different one. What are your thoughts for a torque arm.. stay w/ the stocker for now?
Sounds like there's room for improvement, which is good.
Daniel... I do plan to spray in the future, but this converter will be no good for it. I'd like to hit my goals for the car with the PT4000 and then switch to a PY so I can spray on a 3.73 gear and 28" tire possibly next year. On spray I'm going to shoot for a 9 second pass. Had the tires at 18psi cold.. the track I run at it can be hit or miss for hooking so I started lower than usual.
John... loosening the stall 400 RPM sounds like going to the PT4400 like Daniel was suggesting correct? I think I'm gonna have to make due with this stall so I can move forward in the future to spray with a different one. What are your thoughts for a torque arm.. stay w/ the stocker for now?
Sounds like there's room for improvement, which is good.
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02-21-2008, 05:49 PM
#8
If money is tight I would get the front shocks and an anti roll bar if you're not going to swap the converter. You have to keep in mind it just isn't the track, when you have a lot of body roll one tire it getting more traction than the other.
When you launch a car it tries to push down the left tire and lift up the right, that's why you see the cars lean towards the right rear. When you get an anti roll bar you can adjust it so the same amount of force is applied to the tires and it counter acts the body roll.
When you launch a car it tries to push down the left tire and lift up the right, that's why you see the cars lean towards the right rear. When you get an anti roll bar you can adjust it so the same amount of force is applied to the tires and it counter acts the body roll.
02-21-2008, 08:41 PM
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If money is tight I would get the front shocks and an anti roll bar if you're not going to swap the converter. You have to keep in mind it just isn't the track, when you have a lot of body roll one tire it getting more traction than the other.
When you launch a car it tries to push down the left tire and lift up the right, that's why you see the cars lean towards the right rear. When you get an anti roll bar you can adjust it so the same amount of force is applied to the tires and it counter acts the body roll.
When you launch a car it tries to push down the left tire and lift up the right, that's why you see the cars lean towards the right rear. When you get an anti roll bar you can adjust it so the same amount of force is applied to the tires and it counter acts the body roll.
I definitely understand it's not just the track, and I'm glad to know that suspension might help me knock another tenth off, even when it's already hookin'.
02-21-2008, 08:47 PM
#11
No suspension should help you knock 0.10 off your 60foot, assuming you have the right converter.
You run High 11.2x's, with 119 mph you should be capable of running 10.9x's.
I'd think you'd need more converter to do it but even with what you have you should be able to run faster than 1.58 60 ft's. I would think with the converter you have now the car should be able to run 1.50 60ft's which will drop you to 11.1's.
That's assuming you tune your chassis and set it up right on.
You run High 11.2x's, with 119 mph you should be capable of running 10.9x's.
I'd think you'd need more converter to do it but even with what you have you should be able to run faster than 1.58 60 ft's. I would think with the converter you have now the car should be able to run 1.50 60ft's which will drop you to 11.1's.
That's assuming you tune your chassis and set it up right on.
02-21-2008, 09:23 PM
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Sounds good guys... that's gonna be on my list of parts to start picking up.
I appreciate the help as I've got a good idea on how to make power, but really haven't worked much with suspension and keeping that power on the ground.
I appreciate the help as I've got a good idea on how to make power, but really haven't worked much with suspension and keeping that power on the ground.
02-21-2008, 10:54 PM
#14
yea do the front shocks and springs...rear swaybar and leave the3 converter alone...since your goana spray later...
i wish i had of asked this stuff before i spent money on lca's relo brackets phb and tq arm....when front shocks woulda been a great investment...and rears...
i wish i had of asked this stuff before i spent money on lca's relo brackets phb and tq arm....when front shocks woulda been a great investment...and rears...
02-22-2008, 08:17 AM
#15
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What tire are you running?
I'm thinking if you average 1.58's, you might get down to 1.50-1.53 with the somes and a thicker rear swaybar. After that you need more converter.
I run a 8" 4800 stall converter, seems to work okay.
I'm going to a 8" 5500 stall to focus on motor for a while, hoping for 10.5's.
I'm thinking if you average 1.58's, you might get down to 1.50-1.53 with the somes and a thicker rear swaybar. After that you need more converter.
I run a 8" 4800 stall converter, seems to work okay.
I'm going to a 8" 5500 stall to focus on motor for a while, hoping for 10.5's.
02-22-2008, 11:13 AM
#17
I agree John...I added QA1 R series front shocks with 275 lb springs and QA1 12 way adjustable rears with the stock springs...Just those mods made the car extremely consistent and hook 1.52s all day long...I also use 275 60 15 M/T radials and they helped alot too..I have since upped the stall from 3600 to 4000 and added a Spohn rear drag sway bar for the adjustablity to set the preload...There's also the little details of squaring the rear (mine was out 1/2") and scaling the car...A TA may be a good idea also to set the pinion angle...I also run the relocation brackets in their lowest hole...
I think now it will come together with the additional 400 rpm of converter and the new sway bar...I'm in the same boat as you...Looking for 10s N/A..Good luck with everything...
--Alan
I think now it will come together with the additional 400 rpm of converter and the new sway bar...I'm in the same boat as you...Looking for 10s N/A..Good luck with everything...
--Alan
02-22-2008, 01:29 PM
#18
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Question; I'm running a '01 formula, 3,600 vig.w/built trans, 3.73s, stock motor (no headers) w/lid/pulley, magnaflow muffler, adj. torque arm w/3 degree pinion angle, Qa1s on back set on 3, lower control arms and M/T drag radials w/20lbs, stock front susp.
Car 60's @ 1.57 but E.T. is 12.02 @111.75. I launch at 2,000 rpm. Why aren't I in the 11s?
Car 60's @ 1.57 but E.T. is 12.02 @111.75. I launch at 2,000 rpm. Why aren't I in the 11s?
02-22-2008, 02:02 PM
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more seat time, less pinion angle. try 17'lbs pressure. you need a little more power also. i think you've done well to hit 12.0 with converter and gear.