Alcohol and LSx Fuel Injection
Alcohol and LSx Fuel Injection Has anyone ever done it? If so what did you have to do to convert it over? Obviously bigger injectors and fuel sytem but what else? I am curious and have been thinking if it could be possible to run a stand alone up front just for the alcohol and having a different tune for the alky at the track. Bleed your fuel lines, swap fuel systems, and flash the alky tune. I just think this would be something neat to try and gain some power. I just wonder how well our motors would respond to it using a Fast 90 or 92 manifold... 
Please no haterade!
Please no haterade!
So I am assuming you are trying this, just using two different fuel rails, one for gas and one for alcohol? Any results from this setup yet such as dyno numbers or track passes?
Only reason I would run alky is to save weight from not running the extra tubing and intercoolers. A lot of the time you can also ditch the water cooling system for the motor as well, no radiator, no water pump. You can make 2,000 hp on race gas without the hassles of alky. It's either more maintenance and less weight or more weight and less maintenance.
I just get bored and think up ideas and like to see what people here on the board do, and take ideas from it.
BTW an alcohol motor setup right isn't more maintenance, I work with a 5.60's Maverick that runs alcohol and it is no more hassle than dealing with the Nova that runs just race gas. And I wouldn't quite ditch your cooling system, (I am not saying it won't work) but you can follow me to my local track I race at and all of the cars running alcohol (20+) all still run a cooling system. They may not all have to be quite as large because alcohol burn so much cooler, but I have just never saw it done for a few reasons, but I won't get into all of that unless you want to discuss it.
BTW an alcohol motor setup right isn't more maintenance, I work with a 5.60's Maverick that runs alcohol and it is no more hassle than dealing with the Nova that runs just race gas. And I wouldn't quite ditch your cooling system, (I am not saying it won't work) but you can follow me to my local track I race at and all of the cars running alcohol (20+) all still run a cooling system. They may not all have to be quite as large because alcohol burn so much cooler, but I have just never saw it done for a few reasons, but I won't get into all of that unless you want to discuss it.
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Hey when you want to go fast you gotta step up the program. Mines just a "street car" I'm building a 25.2 double rail tube frame and some 17" tires, the twin turbo BBC is just for looks I doubt it'll go that fast anyways, I mean I am building it so I'll be happy if it makes it down the track once without the tires falling off 
E-85 is better than pump gas and you can run more boost, but race gas especially the Q-16 is MUCH better than E-85 and you can make way more power and you don't need the super big injectors or extra sets of injectors like when you run meth.
The OP asked about alcohol, that why I offered the info on the E-85 (which is alcohol) He wasnt asking if anyone thought C-16 was better or asking about meth?
E-85 is 85% Ethanol and 15% gas, while Methanol is called Alcohol. Ethanol contains about 75% of the energy of one gallon of gas while Methanol contains about 67% the energy of one gallon of gas.
Methanol has a greater cooling effect than E-85 however is much more corrosive. The way the power is made up even though it contains less energy than gas is running much more fuel, a gas motor will be about 13:1 A/F ratio, while a Methanol motor will be between 5.0-6.0:1 A/F ratio. So you literally are burning slightly more than twice the fuel compared to gas.
You can run high boost on Methanol without any type of intercooling, while higher boost applications running E-85 would still use an intercooler. If you went with gas over methanol the hot ticket now is the Q-16 fuel which makes more power than C-16. Q-16 is oxygenation and you run slightly more jet when using it around 6% fatter from what I've read.
Methanol has a greater cooling effect than E-85 however is much more corrosive. The way the power is made up even though it contains less energy than gas is running much more fuel, a gas motor will be about 13:1 A/F ratio, while a Methanol motor will be between 5.0-6.0:1 A/F ratio. So you literally are burning slightly more than twice the fuel compared to gas.
You can run high boost on Methanol without any type of intercooling, while higher boost applications running E-85 would still use an intercooler. If you went with gas over methanol the hot ticket now is the Q-16 fuel which makes more power than C-16. Q-16 is oxygenation and you run slightly more jet when using it around 6% fatter from what I've read.
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Only reason I would run alky is to save weight from not running the extra tubing and intercoolers. A lot of the time you can also ditch the water cooling system for the motor as well, no radiator, no water pump. You can make 2,000 hp on race gas without the hassles of alky. It's either more maintenance and less weight or more weight and less maintenance.
Alcohol is much easier to both plumb and maintain. There is no need for radiators, water pumps, intercoolers, or anything like that. I can't get my alcohol engine above 120* even if I wanted to. The only thing you must do with alcohol that you don't have to with gas is change the oil very often. There are some good alcohol specific oils like Valvoline VR-1 and Brad Penn (The old green Kendall formula) but you will still get the alcohol condensation mixed in with the oil and it will need to be changed often. Like every time to the track.
It takes 5 minutes to drain a fuel system when you're done at the track. VP M5 will make all the power C16 will too. The Q16 will make a bit more power than the M5, but unless you're looking to be the big swingin dick in Outlaw 10.5 and outrun Petty the M5 or even M1 Alcohol will be plenty, I can promise you that.
http://chemelab.ucsd.edu/methanol/memos/methanol.html
Methanol IS a type of alcohol.
I was trying to help a guy and explain to him some of the properties and things involved with running Methanol (alcohol), no need to go and call me silly names.
How many alcohol cars have you worked on? How many racecars do you maintain that run on gas?
Alcohol is much easier to both plumb and maintain. There is no need for radiators, water pumps, intercoolers, or anything like that. I can't get my alcohol engine above 120* even if I wanted to. The only thing you must do with alcohol that you don't have to with gas is change the oil very often. There are some good alcohol specific oils like Valvoline VR-1 and Brad Penn (The old green Kendall formula) but you will still get the alcohol condensation mixed in with the oil and it will need to be changed often. Like every time to the track.
It takes 5 minutes to drain a fuel system when you're done at the track. VP M5 will make all the power C16 will too. The Q16 will make a bit more power than the M5, but unless you're looking to be the big swingin dick in Outlaw 10.5 and outrun Petty the M5 or even M1 Alcohol will be plenty, I can promise you that.
Alcohol is much easier to both plumb and maintain. There is no need for radiators, water pumps, intercoolers, or anything like that. I can't get my alcohol engine above 120* even if I wanted to. The only thing you must do with alcohol that you don't have to with gas is change the oil very often. There are some good alcohol specific oils like Valvoline VR-1 and Brad Penn (The old green Kendall formula) but you will still get the alcohol condensation mixed in with the oil and it will need to be changed often. Like every time to the track.
It takes 5 minutes to drain a fuel system when you're done at the track. VP M5 will make all the power C16 will too. The Q16 will make a bit more power than the M5, but unless you're looking to be the big swingin dick in Outlaw 10.5 and outrun Petty the M5 or even M1 Alcohol will be plenty, I can promise you that.
Here is what I said:
Only reason I would run alky is to save weight from not running the extra tubing and intercoolers. A lot of the time you can also ditch the water cooling system for the motor as well, no radiator, no water pump. You can make 2,000 hp on race gas without the hassles of alky. It's either more maintenance and less weight or more weight and less maintenance.
Which is exactly the same thing you just repeated, you have to drain the fuel and don't have to run intercoolers or the extra cooling system, gas you obviously don't drain but have to carry the extra weight of intercoolers and cooling system. Thanks for pointing out you have to change the oil often I forgot that which also adds to the more maintenance I said about Meth.
So I don't get what point you're trying to make. As far as alky cars I have worked on two friends, and have several friends and friends of friends that run cars on gas.
If you feel I have spread some form of misinformation regarding gas or meth. or E-85 please point it out so I can correct my error.
Last edited by RAGENZ28; Jun 18, 2008 at 08:15 PM.